The definitive WAR answer STR vs VIT... and stat caps

[Kitru]

Your math is wrong. Brutal Swing is Off Cooldown for War, but not taken into account.

Brutal Swing adds a whopping 4.167 potency baseline. If you honestly think that Brutal Swing is going to do *anything* appreciable to your total damage dealt, you're deluding yourself.

Spirits within is a Silence that builds DR. It is not part of any reasonably person's rotation on anything other then trash mobs, which should not be a realistic view on DPS.

So you say that Spirits Within shouldn't be counted but Brutal Swing *should*? Silence is *less* useful than stun so DR means a *lot* less. There's only one boss that I know of where silence means *anything* (Dhorne Chimera) and, in that fight, you also need stuns.

That being said, PLD still does more more damage then a WAR on single target. WAR is much more effective against Multiple targets. I imagine if anything were to change with these two tanks, this would be the first thing.

Anyone that acts like WAR is more effective at AoE has no idea what they're talking about. Yes, Flash does no damage so any kind of AoE damage situation is naturally going to favor WAR; this would be true if Overpower was potency *5*. What you (and pretty much everyone else who always brings this up) is that Overpower has a *lot* going against it: it's *hugely* expensive (net loss of *80* TP per GCD, compared to the 10-20 of every other attack; Flash is, for all intents and purposes, completely and utterly free), unwieldy (*targeted* cone rather than PbAoE circle), has no secondary benefit like Flash's blind (minor issue, but still), and is smaller (120* cone w/ 8y radius = 67y^2 area; circle w/ 5y = 78y^2 area). The only advantages it brings are slightly better burst enmity generation (which comes at the cost of enmity generation down the line thanks to the massive cost) and the little bit of additional damage (less than any of your single target attack) that gets *easily* drowned out by the damage capability of any DPS you might be running with.

On top of that, PLD also brings Circle of Scorn, which is flipping amazing: it's free, it's the same size as Flash, and actually deals an appreciable amount of damage (more than Overpower, in fact).

Overpower is not the Twelve's gift to AoE tanking. In fact, thanks to all of the stuff that it has going against it, it's a pretty fair balance with Flash and Circle of Scorn.

[Tanaya]

So you say that Spirits Within shouldn't be counted but Brutal Swing *should*? Silence is *less* useful than stun so DR means a *lot* less. There's only one boss that I know of where silence means *anything* (Dhorne Chimera) and, in that fight, you also need stuns.

ADS and it's adds in Coil needs to be silenced to avoid High Voltage. So generally that's two situations where you can't spam Spirits Within.

Otherwise I have no idea what Ninji is talking about. Spirits Within should be used as much as possible beyond those two cases.

[Ninjiitstu]

Brutal Swing adds a whopping 4.167 potency baseline.

That would still make your math wrong, right?

So you say that Spirits Within shouldn't be counted but Brutal Swing *should*?

Im saying do one or the other. Don't pick one side and leave another sides abilities out. Common sense should dictate that.

Anyone that acts like WAR is more effective at AoE has no idea what they're talking about.

That is going to be my new sig. You are clearly inept in every way.

Overpower is 4 x damage x Defiance. That, even at 25% increased Enmity, is a potency of 5. At 2x, its 8. So, what again?

Also its a loss of 70, not 80. And the reason WAR is better at AoE is the combination of Overpower AND Flash. You haven't been to coils yet, clearly.

[Kitru]

That would still make your math wrong, right?

No, I specifically chose to ignore it. The math is correct. You may not agreed with the method, but the math is correct.

Im saying do one or the other. Don't pick one side and leave another sides abilities out. Common sense should dictate that.

Common sense would also dictate that they don't follow *nearly* the same use paradigm. Spirits Within deals a helluva lot more damage with a much less important status effect. Ignoring that difference is like ignoring the vast gulf in state between Flash and Overpower (which you also do, so I really shouldn't be surprised).

That is going to be my new sig. You are clearly inept in every way.

Really? Because it's pretty obvious that you can't even correct me correctly.

Overpower is 4 x damage x Defiance. That, even at 25% increased Enmity, is a potency of 5. At 2x, its 8. So, what again?

Overpower's enmity modifier is 2x, not 4x. That's 240 potency as enmity per use, pre-Defiance. I find it amusing that you're bringing up Overpower's numbers in a vacuum. You're acting as if 240 potency as enmity per GCD is somehow supposed to be monumentally high without even giving a point of comparison. If you want to claim that Overpower generates *way* more threat than Flash does, actually bring up a point of comparison because, unless Flash is complete and utter rubbish (on 3 targets, cycling the BB combo generates ~240 potency as enmity per GCD on each; Halone generates ~230; Flash needs to generate at least that much for it to provide meaningful enmity generation in realistic AoE scenarios; even at ~200, it would still be useful thanks to evenly distributing it rather than loading it on the third target), Overpower has nowhere near the absurd advantage that you think it has.

Also its a loss of 70, not 80. And the reason WAR is better at AoE is the combination of Overpower AND Flash. You haven't been to coils yet, clearly.

TP generation is 60 per 3 seconds. The GCD is 2.5 seconds, which equates to 50 TP/GCD. 130 - 50 = 80. If you want to math, math properly.

As to needing both Overpower and Flash, I seriously have to wonder why the hell you would ever need 3-4 uses *per fight* of a single, non-damaging AoE that provides no debuff. While I haven't been to Coils yet, I find it hard to come up with a situation where you actually *need* Flash, considering how little WAR actually gets to use it.

[Ninjiitstu]

As to needing both Overpower and Flash, I seriously have to wonder why the hell you would ever need 3-4 uses *per fight* of a single, non-damaging AoE that provides no debuff. While I haven't been to Coils yet, I find it hard to come up with a situation where you actually *need* Flash, considering how little WAR actually gets to use it.

Again, Go to coils before you give your opinion on what you need or don't need as a WAR. I do appreciate the math though, despite you still being wrong.

http://valk.dancing-mad.com/?page_id=231

4x. Thanks for playing.

[Kitru]

http://valk.dancing-mad.com/?page_id=231

4x. Thanks for playing.

That lists the tank stance enmity modifiers as 2x and the Defiance damage debuff modifier as .65. Neither of those is true and they've been tested numerous times on live servers. Old numbers are old.