The definitive WAR answer STR vs VIT... and stat caps

[Riffy]

* I have not completed Titan *

I ran it once. That said, I read everything.

I don't agree with all VIT and I don't believe it is the intention of a WAR to go all VIT. I believe this is a sorry excuse but to be empathetic to our healers who already, obviously, have a strenuous role as is. It's been said several times that there is a VIT threshold that we should have and for that, I do agree.

But, tell me, and by that I mean to be enlightened, at what point do we ask ourselves that perhaps the healer(s) and tank(s) shall be in perfect unison. I ask because I've know of 2 Warriors beyond T3. Their healers did not quit on them.

Lastly, I do love all these threads in regards to theory crafting. Anyone that deters these analyses please disregard. They're still reading I assure you.

[EvilHippie]

i am bad at math, can someone simplify this for me? :P

[Ysarel]

i am bad at math, can someone simplify this for me? :P

For leveling 1-50 and doing content where your gear is on par with or above the level of the content at hand, you should allocate your points to STR. If you're undergeared for the content at hand, VIT is a good way to improve your safety margin. If you're doing a bit of both, VIT is the way to go. I do not advocate listening to recommendations to "balance" your stat points as it misses the fact that the stats are not necessarily 1:1 in value and their priorities will vary from situation to situation and person to person. Middle ground arguments are often a logical fallacy; I would argue that this is not one of the exceptions.

[Judge_Xero]

i am bad at math, can someone simplify this for me? :P

By putting bonus stats in VIT - equipping Jewelery with Crit and STR - wearing DL Body stuffs - and with Relic

You should be sitting at ~6500 HP with Defiance
be able to self heal with Inner Beast (IB) for ~1050 HP @ 20s intervals
be able to self heal with IB for ~1365 HP with the Buff/Debuff from Maim and Storm's Eye @ 20s intervals
be able to self heal with IR, IB, Infuriate, IB by ~2700-3800 HP (Maim+SE) @ 60 second intervals.

By putting bonus stats in VIT - equipping Jewelery with Parry and VIT - wearing DL Body stuffs - and with Relic

You should be sitting at ~7200 HP with Defiance
be able to self heal with Inner Beast (IB) for ~870 HP @ 20s intervals
be able to self heal with IB for ~1131 HP with the Buff/Debuff from Maim and Storm's Eye @ 20s intervals
be able to self heal with IR, IB, Infuriate, IB by ~2100-3100 HP (Maim+SE) @ 60 second intervals.

By putting bonus stats in STR - equipping Jewelery with Crit and STR - wearing DL Body stuffs - and with Relic

You should be sitting at ~6000 HP with Defiance
be able to self heal with Inner Beast (IB) for ~1140 HP @ 20s intervals
be able to self heal with IB for ~1482 HP with the Buff/Debuff from Maim and Storm's Eye @ 20s intervals
be able to self heal with IR, IB, Infuriate, IB by ~3000-4200 HP (Maim+SE) @ 60 second intervals.

Both extremes and a middle - choose your poison

[EvilHippie]

Thank you, but i do wonder if, with the release of 2.1 we will have to re-allocate our skill points to one or the other. I remember reading somewhere that it was possible, though difficult to do so. Has any Information been released on that?

[Judge_Xero]

Thank you, but i do wonder if, with the release of 2.1 we will have to re-allocate our skill points to one or the other. I remember reading somewhere that it was possible, though difficult to do so. Has any Information been released on that?

10k seals at your local Grand Company. You are looking for an item called Keepers Hymn. I think it only resets the points for the job you are on. If you already stacked your bonus on VIT though, may as well leave it.

[HiirNoivl]

The flawed Logic of Vit stacking is the idea that your HP points make you a better WAR. It adds a lot to your surviving, but in the end a Vit-stacked WAR is just a Terrible PLD. By your very nature, thanks to Enhanced Vitality, adding more VIT will give you a bigger boost to your HP. There's just no reason to stat all the way VIT and lose out on the benefits of STR.

If you're VIT stacked, you only stand to benefit from adding some STR to that.

[Gamemako]

The flawed Logic of Vit stacking is the idea that your HP points make you a better WAR. It adds a lot to your surviving, but in the end a Vit-stacked WAR is just a Terrible PLD.

To be an effective tank, WAR must at a bare minimum do three things:

1. Hold aggro
2. Reduce healer load sufficiently that healers can manage
3. Not die

WAR can do 1 no sweat. WAR is inferior to PLD at 2, and STR (marginally) helps this. However, STR-built WAR is unable to complete 3, which makes that WAR unable to function as a tank at endgame. That is why people are migrating to pure VIT. I've said it many times: STR will make you a better tank than VIT for all pre-endgame content. However, once you reach a certain damage threshold, all the STR in the world won't prevent the inevitable and unavoidable wipes. That threshold is reached in BC, and adding VIT is mandatory until gear is sufficient to reduce damage threshold such that your tank can withstand the big hits without keeling over.

It's not really that complicated. Because the job has no direct mitigation abilities, WAR has to be able to absorb hits innately before it drains the health back, and WAR has no more eHP than PLD. This is the gaping hole which forces WAR to dump everything into VIT to be viable. Once you have reached an HP number which give you enough of a buffer to survive, you can dump points into STR at your leisure.

Nonsense

*headdesk*

Because eHP is identical, there is actually no reason to dump all PLD points into VIT if the game can be tanked at all with WAR. WAR does not out-damage PLD when you compare Sword Oath to non-Defiance WAR. It only outdamages PLD in tank stance, and one tank isn't using a tank stance much of the time. WAR self-healing is less than Wrath's healing bonus, and PLD is stomping Wrath's healing bonus in terms of eHP as well (15% for 5 stacks of Wrath, effective 25% for Shield Oath). They are not remotely balanced. But please, regale us with the mathematical proofs that you don't have because you haven't bothered to consider the issue at all.

You're one of those people who just believes that everything is magically innately balanced because developers are, like, totally infallible and stuff. News flash: developers are people too, and they make mistakes. WAR is gimped. Get over it. If you like playing a gimped class, then more power to you, but don't come here spouting bullshit.

You strike me as the kind of guy who fulltimes Defiance. Am I correct?

He has a level 2 Marauder. He's a PLD who is main-tanking everything and probably never turns off Shield Oath. He's going by his FC, not by his own experience, which is probably why he doesn't consider the use of turning off Defiance.

[HiirNoivl]

To be an effective tank, WAR must at a bare minimum do three things:

1. Hold aggro
2. Reduce healer load sufficiently that healers can manage
3. Not die

WAR can do 1 no sweat. WAR is inferior to PLD at 2, and STR (marginally) helps this. However, STR-built WAR is unable to complete 3, which makes that WAR unable to function as a tank at endgame. That is why people are migrating to pure VIT. I've said it many times: STR will make you a better tank than VIT for all pre-endgame content. However, once you reach a certain damage threshold, all the STR in the world won't prevent the inevitable and unavoidable wipes. That threshold is reached in BC, and adding VIT is mandatory until gear is sufficient to reduce damage threshold such that your tank can withstand the big hits without keeling over

I know that's what I said!

[Gamemako]

I know that's what I said!

Oh? I apologize if I misunderstood you, then. I thought you were saying that going with a balanced approach was the goal, rather than building to the reserve threshold.

Welp, if we're in agreement, then nothing to see here. Moving on!