Using Provoke to Pull in AK

[Raze_Krauser]

A 'good' WAR should be going out of their way to get Provoke.

[Viridiana]

As a DD, I can't say that I *hate* having the tanks provoke-pull, buuut. . .I'd rather do it. It's not about wanting to be the guy pulling, either. I just figure if you're going to be using Provoke anyway, you might as well get the 200-300 enmity I just produced, rather than the 1 you would produce.

[Lhun]

A 'good' WAR should be going out of their way to get Provoke.

Absolutely. Awareness and mantra I would currently say pass on, but holy crap provoke is the most important tool you have as a tank - you can take massive amounts of enmity away from other characters and instantly put yourself at the top of the hate table.

[Kenka]

As a DD, I can't say that I *hate* having the tanks provoke-pull, buuut. . .I'd rather do it. It's not about wanting to be the guy pulling, either. I just figure if you're going to be using Provoke anyway, you might as well get the 200-300 enmity I just produced, rather than the 1 you would produce.

Perfectly valid reasoning. I however prefer to do Provoke > Shield Lob myself because of.. trust issues. Seen many people facepulling so now I just do it myself so I'm the only one to blame if I mess up

[Sapphidia]

I think there's a lot of negativity towards Provoke pulls because it's often seen as something newer/unsure players do when they don't understand mechanics, and don't realise that it only generates 1 enmity on a single target. They see it as "high threat ranged attack" and pull everything with it regardless of range.

I admit I was almost one of the naysayers until I realised just HOW much longer range Provoke has than Shield Lob/Tomahawk. You can do some very very fancy pulls with it, and the pre-Anantaboga trash pulls in AK are probably the best example.

[Jirnelle]

Normally in my runs even before the mobs are done some range is pulling her for me so I never have to use provoke like that. Most cases when someone pulls them all its just because they moved up too close. The real problem is when pulling the one across the way range love to whack it as it comes and then they get to tank.. mostly dead by then anyway.

[Kaalan]

Absolutely. Awareness and mantra I would currently say pass on, but holy crap provoke is the most important tool you have as a tank - you can take massive amounts of enmity away from other characters and instantly put yourself at the top of the hate table.

As long as you're doing your job properly you absolutely don't need 'voke for that. While it's nice to help you pull (but you can definitely do w/o it) and required for tank swaping, 'voke is far far far from being the "most important tool"
I never slotted it for random dungeon and I can only think of 1 time it would've helped me, but even then it was initially because a DPS derped.

[CianaIezuborn]

Provoke pulling is one of those things where you tell new players to NEVER EVER do when what you really mean is never do it unless you understand the ramifications of what you're doing.

Using it to pull a patrol out of a pack of mobs that you can't get close enough to shield lob is a perfectly valid use for it.

This is the case for a lot of blanket advice, it's a generalization because in 95% of the cases it's good advice. Once you understand the advice well enough that you can recognize the exceptions, then you really know your character well enough to not need to rationalize to other folks what you're doing.

1. New player provoke pulls, doesn't realize it's an error.
2. Intermediate player doesn't provoke pull, realizes it would be an error.
3. Seasoned player provoke pulls when it isn't an error. Recognizes the difference.

When a new player face pulls a pat and 2 groups of mobs, it's an error.
When an experienced player face pulls a pat and 2 groups of mobs, it's because they know their group can handle it and the AE makes the run a bit faster (or they just face pulled a pat and 2 groups of mobs =p).

[Resolute]

As a DD, I can't say that I *hate* having the tanks provoke-pull, buuut. . .I'd rather do it. It's not about wanting to be the guy pulling, either. I just figure if you're going to be using Provoke anyway, you might as well get the 200-300 enmity I just produced, rather than the 1 you would produce.

This is a good point, but you also have to realize that even though I get that 200-300 enmity, I am still only ONE higher than you after using provoke. So, it may put me far above the other two people in the group, but the person pulling still needs to back off. Too often I use provoke and they immediately hit it again, which instantly puts them over me again. Also, when I pull I don't just use provoke, but shield lob as soon as it gets close enough as well. So I have more than 1 by the time it gets to me (just like a normal pull when I use shield lob to pull). And in that instance I am more than 1 over everyone in the group, whereas if the ranged pulled I have to do an enmity race with them. This is taking into account people that don't stop attacking, mind you. Good dps that pull will hopefully back off a couple of seconds to ensure I got him. Unfortunately, I can't always trust that DF dps will do that.

I also agree with the above post. I would never use provoke for normal pulls, obviously shield lob is better. Separating mobs from packs in AK is the only time I can recall pulling with it.

[Kryzen]

Thanks for the pulling tip with provoke in AK... As a PLD I have always had more then enough defense just to run in and beat them all down as a group. Pulling with provoke will definitely pay out in coil though.