Crafting... Why are we doing it?

[Zantetsuken]

I craft because I enjoy it, but there isnt' much real use for most of the stuff we make in-game.

Case-in-point:

Cobalt Haubergeon (lvl48) sells for ~50gil on my server.

This used to be a premium piece of armor in 1.0, but now even the HQ version is practically worthless. It is outclassed in every way by Vintage Haubergeon (lvl46), and there are roughly 3 or 4 other body pieces which are easier to obtain and provide the same stats or better.

Not only that, but lvl 40-50 gear is handed out like candy from quests and dungeons and once you hit 50, you get body AF, so the armor has no point at all. Beyond that, crafting for end-game is even worse with the easy drops from dungeon speed runs. Most players will get multiple pieces of iLVL 60 armor for free. (and the best crafters can make is ilvl55, not including the insane Vanya/Darksteel stuff) To make matters worse, even if crafters could reasonably pump out NQ Vanya/Darksteel, most people would skip it in favor of Darklight (which looks better, has better stats, and doesn't cost them any of their precious gil.)

Weapons and tools have even worse issues, as your class quests hand out your latest weapon every 5 levels, so classes like Armorer and Carpenter really get the shaft along the way. Endgame it's the same situation. Players get free weapons from dungeons, and then Ifrit, Garuda, Titan, Relic. No place for crafters in that scenario (other than the cheap NQ double-melded item you trade to start relic quest).


Anyhow, I don't like complaining about things without proposing a solution.
So here is what i'd like to see happen:

1) Quest rewards should be GIL only. Get rid of the item rewards from quests. People are already complaining that they don't have enough gil, and the flood of free items has rendered a majority of crafting recipes practically worthless.

2) Dungeon chests (except final boss fights) should be largely changed to 'Damaged' weapons/armor and other craft-able items. - Change 'Aetherial gear' so that it's created by using special dungeon chest drop (with grades, like Dark Matter) which upgrades stats on NQ crafted gear but simultaneously removes materia/slots. This would make NQ items more useful in the markets, and the Aetherial upgrade item would allow players access to near-HQ items for cheap! It's a Win-Win.

3) Remove weapons/tools as rewards for Class Quests. Again, change the reward to Gil so players can purchase the items from crafters.

4) Introduce Ifrit/Garuda/Titan drops which can be traded in with 'crafted frames' to obtain Primal weapons. [eg. 10x "Ifrit Spurs" (dropped) + "Inferno pole frame" (crafted) could be traded to an NPC for an Ifrit Harpoon -- *Perhaps only 8x 'Ifrit Spurs' would be needed if a HQ frame was used*]. It would be a supplemental primal token system which keeps crafters involved.

5) Involve DoH in AF procurement. It would be nice if maybe you had to restore the artifact pieces you received in your lvl 45 and 50 job quests. Maybe deliver the ruined pieces + HQ mats like: Cobalt/Electrum Ingots, Felt/Velveteen Cloth, Mahogany, Dodore/Hippogryph Leather, etc. to a NPC who would restore the artifact armor for you. DoH certainly can't craft the AF, but it makes sense that they could contribute materials for it. -- this would also slow down the acquisition of AF and grant some usefulness to other lvl 45-50 gear in the process.

-this last one is a maybe-

6) Make 100% bound items re-sellable (introduce a NPC that would reset a 100% spiritbound item for a price proportional to iLvl) - I know this sounds a bit counter-productive for crafters, but most players don't want to waste large amounts of Gil on HQ items when they can get a comparable item free from dungeons -- This would increase the amount of goods on the market, but it would also make players more comfortable buying them if they knew they could get their money back at some point. This is ESPECIALLY true for end-game items like Vanya/Darksteel.

[Umbrah]

I craft because I enjoy it, but there isnt' much real use for most of the stuff we make in-game.

Case-in-point:

Cobalt Haubergeon (lvl48) sells for ~50gil on my server.

Everything you said was basically irrelevant.
I am talking about Vanya/Darksteel stuff and making them HQ (which apparently makes armor as strong if not stronger then the actual Darklight gear)
The reason any armor from level 45-50 that isn't HQ and isn't Vanya/Darksteel wouldn't sell is because no one will need it.
You get AF armor at 45 and chest at 50, it doesn't take long to level from 45-50, why would anyone consider spending so much money on gear between those levels when they get AF gear.

If someone wants top of the range stuff, they can buy it with ToP/ToM or purchase HQ level 50 (vanya/darksteel) from market/crafter.

The best crafters can make is HQ ilvl70...

[Zantetsuken]

Everything you said was basically irrelevant.
I am talking about Vanya/Darksteel stuff and making them HQ (which apparently makes armor as strong if not stronger then the actual Darklight gear)
The reason any armor from level 45-50 that isn't HQ and isn't Vanya/Darksteel wouldn't sell is because no one will need it.
You get AF armor at 45 and chest at 50, it doesn't take long to level from 45-50, why would anyone consider spending so much money on gear between those levels when they get AF gear.

If someone wants top of the range stuff, they can buy it with ToP/ToM or purchase HQ level 50 (vanya/darksteel) from market/crafter.

The best crafters can make is HQ ilvl70...

Read my full post.

And yes, I agree that AF eliminates the need for any lvl 45-50 hand/head/leg/feet gear. This is due in large part to the gear's 'vertical progression' model, rather than horizontal (or branching) progression as we see in games like FFXI, Monster Hunter, or Dark Souls.

Ideally, Crafters should be responsible for crafting parts that can be used to trade in for AF gear as well (I'll edit point #5from my post above to include this.)

Personally, I hate this strategy of ONLY vertical progression on gear. Vertical progression makes gear stats boring and flavorless -- furthermore, the easy race to endgame makes anything < ilvl50 pretty much irrelevant. Given enough time, all players will look exactly the same because there is a clear 'BEST' gear in the game per job. Sadly, Yoshi is highly in favor of vertical progression as well as turbo-leveling, and so that's what we have to work with.

[Kane]

Vertical progression makes gear stats boring and flavorless and the easy race to endgame makes anything >lvl50 pretty much irrelevant. Given enough time, all players will look exactly the same because there is a clear 'BEST' gear in the game per job. Sadly, Yoshi is highly in favor of vertical progression as well as turbo-leveling, and so that's what we have to work with.

Couldn't agree more. :\

[Zantetsuken]

Let's hope that as the cap is raised, we see gear progression begin to branch out (ie, more interesting stats) and crafters become a vital component in the procurement of future gear.

Even materia with new stats could be a game-changer in this regard.

[JayCommon]

Maybe in the essence of time spent, DL is the better way to go for most people but the fact there is another viable option is enough for me. The fact that HQ ilvl70 crafted gear CAN be dyed and have materia slotted into it is enough to make me want that over the DL, even if it does suffer in a few points of defense. (or whatever)

And honestly, crafting has been a totally different experience for me than it has for you apparently. I created an FC dedicated to help new players progress themselves and be prepared for end game and what's to come. As a GSM, I can absolutely give every member of my FC a new set of HQ jewelry appropriate for their levels, and the responses I get from them when they see their presents in the mail keeps me fueled to continue. Since my miner is the same level as my GSM (currently both 41-42 respectively) it costs me literally nothing but a few minutes of my time to make someone's day.

And in contrast to what one of the replies I saw, you can not and do not get jewelry to replace what you have through natural side quest progression. Some, yes. All? No way. Many sidequests will make you choose a ring for DoW or a bracelet for DoM and then you get no other viable choices. And to top it off, I craft nothing but HQ jewelry which is far and beyond the normal stuff in terms of stats. Those extra points add up when you have 5 slots.

This may all become irrelavant when everyone hits 50, but not everyone gets there at the same time. So what some of you may think as a waste of time, some of us also feel like it is a great part of the game that has helped us progress through to endgame.

To finally answer the question that the OP posed: Why are we doing it?

Because some of us enjoy doing it. Why should there be any other reason?