Crafting... Why are we doing it?

[Umbrah]

So I started crafting the other week.
Got a level 50 Weaver under my belt, figured making my own gear and repairing it would be cheaper and only cost me time which I feel I have plenty of.

Then I discover the true cost (Potash etc).
Now from what i've seen it is a much wiser decision to spend your ToP on DL gear, instead of crafting ilvl70 gear for yourself.

The ilvl70 HQ gear is apparently better once you apply materia etc.
Costly process considering 1 piece of ilvl70 crafted gear is something like 1.1K tombs.

The only benefits I can see ilvl70 gear having is: Dyeable, Customizable stats (materia), and the fact you can have two separate pieces for head and chest instead of the darklight combined.
This would leave for more options for customizing.

Now when Crystal Tower comes out, wont ilvl70 gear basically be irrelevant?

What is the point of leveling your botany to 50, weaver to 50 so you can craft this ilvl70 gear when it's much more efficient and effective to spend your time & gil on DL gear, then raid for CT gear?

FIX: Increase stat cap on ilvl70 crafted gear
FIX: Lower ToP Material Requirements

[Blazer]

I have a feeling when crystal tower comes out... along with the other dungeons and new primal fights... they will add in new craft-able gear. The housing system has 380 (or something) items involved which span each craft, you would think they'll add new recipes for more than just lamps.

[Vindrax]

Why am I crafting? Because I enjoy it... I enjoy the process of taking an item to HQ. I like being able to make my own gear and supply melds for people that need help. I like being able to make some money on the side from farming monsters/gathering. And I like the idea of putting gear out into the world that others are wearing to help them in their adventuring. I can think of many reasons I personally enjoy crafting... My suggestion would be if you can't find a reason you personally enjoy to do it, don't... As you mentioned there are plenty of alternative ways to obtain end-game gear if that's your primary objective (but crafters can do that too...).

[KogaDrake]

The important thing ti see with the HQ crafted ilv70 gear is with full melds it is better than darklight and in some cases it is nearly as good as the ilv90. So yes it costs a ton due to potash, ext but these can be obtained with gil (not just tomestones) making it less of a grind if your into playing the market, farming or something more then griniding AK/CM. They also alow for greater customization, which can be useful in some cases.

If the gear was not better than DL and competitive with ilv90 no one (ok, someone would, but not as many as are) would be paying millions for non-melded HQ crafted ilv70 gear.

[Umbrah]

The important thing ti see with the HQ crafted ilv70 gear is with full melds it is better than darklight and in some cases it is nearly as good as the ilv90.

I've never seen any arguement showing them nearly as good as ilvl90 gear... that does make it much more appealing.

[Reika]

I've never seen any arguement showing them nearly as good as ilvl90 gear... that does make it much more appealing.

There are some delusional people who think they are. As long as they don't allow raising of the primary and most important stats and defense of gear, they will never be as good as higher ilvl gear, period. Jewelry might be the only thing that is better in some ways, due to being able to add some stats not available on all jewelry, but higher ilvl crafted jewelry will replace those in the future tho. Unless they stop crafted goods at ilvl70... which would be the death of the crafting system.

[Evangela]

nobody cares when we have AF2.

[Zantetsuken]

I craft because I enjoy it, but there isnt' much real use for most of the stuff we make in-game.

Case-in-point:

Cobalt Haubergeon (lvl48) sells for ~50gil on my server.

This used to be a premium piece of armor in 1.0, but now even the HQ version is practically worthless. It is outclassed in every way by Vintage Haubergeon (lvl46), and there are roughly 3 or 4 other body pieces which are easier to obtain and provide the same stats or better.

Not only that, but lvl 40-50 gear is handed out like candy from quests and dungeons and once you hit 50, you get body AF, so the armor has no point at all. Beyond that, crafting for end-game is even worse with the easy drops from dungeon speed runs. Most players will get multiple pieces of iLVL 60 armor for free. (and the best crafters can make is ilvl55, not including the insane Vanya/Darksteel stuff) To make matters worse, even if crafters could reasonably pump out NQ Vanya/Darksteel, most people would skip it in favor of Darklight (which looks better, has better stats, and doesn't cost them any of their precious gil.)

Weapons and tools have even worse issues, as your class quests hand out your latest weapon every 5 levels, so classes like Armorer and Carpenter really get the shaft along the way. Endgame it's the same situation. Players get free weapons from dungeons, and then Ifrit, Garuda, Titan, Relic. No place for crafters in that scenario (other than the cheap NQ double-melded item you trade to start relic quest).


Anyhow, I don't like complaining about things without proposing a solution.
So here is what i'd like to see happen:

1) Quest rewards should be GIL only. Get rid of the item rewards from quests. People are already complaining that they don't have enough gil, and the flood of free items has rendered a majority of crafting recipes practically worthless.

2) Dungeon chests (except final boss fights) should be largely changed to 'Damaged' weapons/armor and other craft-able items. - Change 'Aetherial gear' so that it's created by using special dungeon chest drop (with grades, like Dark Matter) which upgrades stats on NQ crafted gear but simultaneously removes materia/slots. This would make NQ items more useful in the markets, and the Aetherial upgrade item would allow players access to near-HQ items for cheap! It's a Win-Win.

3) Remove weapons/tools as rewards for Class Quests. Again, change the reward to Gil so players can purchase the items from crafters.

4) Introduce Ifrit/Garuda/Titan drops which can be traded in with 'crafted frames' to obtain Primal weapons. [eg. 10x "Ifrit Spurs" (dropped) + "Inferno pole frame" (crafted) could be traded to an NPC for an Ifrit Harpoon -- *Perhaps only 8x 'Ifrit Spurs' would be needed if a HQ frame was used*]. It would be a supplemental primal token system which keeps crafters involved.

5) Involve DoH in AF procurement. It would be nice if maybe you had to restore the artifact pieces you received in your lvl 45 and 50 job quests. Maybe deliver the ruined pieces + HQ mats like: Cobalt/Electrum Ingots, Felt/Velveteen Cloth, Mahogany, Dodore/Hippogryph Leather, etc. to a NPC who would restore the artifact armor for you. DoH certainly can't craft the AF, but it makes sense that they could contribute materials for it. -- this would also slow down the acquisition of AF and grant some usefulness to other lvl 45-50 gear in the process.

-this last one is a maybe-

6) Make 100% bound items re-sellable (introduce a NPC that would reset a 100% spiritbound item for a price proportional to iLvl) - I know this sounds a bit counter-productive for crafters, but most players don't want to waste large amounts of Gil on HQ items when they can get a comparable item free from dungeons -- This would increase the amount of goods on the market, but it would also make players more comfortable buying them if they knew they could get their money back at some point. This is ESPECIALLY true for end-game items like Vanya/Darksteel.

[Umbrah]

I craft because I enjoy it, but there isnt' much real use for most of the stuff we make in-game.

Case-in-point:

Cobalt Haubergeon (lvl48) sells for ~50gil on my server.

Everything you said was basically irrelevant.
I am talking about Vanya/Darksteel stuff and making them HQ (which apparently makes armor as strong if not stronger then the actual Darklight gear)
The reason any armor from level 45-50 that isn't HQ and isn't Vanya/Darksteel wouldn't sell is because no one will need it.
You get AF armor at 45 and chest at 50, it doesn't take long to level from 45-50, why would anyone consider spending so much money on gear between those levels when they get AF gear.

If someone wants top of the range stuff, they can buy it with ToP/ToM or purchase HQ level 50 (vanya/darksteel) from market/crafter.

The best crafters can make is HQ ilvl70...

[Zantetsuken]

Everything you said was basically irrelevant.
I am talking about Vanya/Darksteel stuff and making them HQ (which apparently makes armor as strong if not stronger then the actual Darklight gear)
The reason any armor from level 45-50 that isn't HQ and isn't Vanya/Darksteel wouldn't sell is because no one will need it.
You get AF armor at 45 and chest at 50, it doesn't take long to level from 45-50, why would anyone consider spending so much money on gear between those levels when they get AF gear.

If someone wants top of the range stuff, they can buy it with ToP/ToM or purchase HQ level 50 (vanya/darksteel) from market/crafter.

The best crafters can make is HQ ilvl70...

Read my full post.

And yes, I agree that AF eliminates the need for any lvl 45-50 hand/head/leg/feet gear. This is due in large part to the gear's 'vertical progression' model, rather than horizontal (or branching) progression as we see in games like FFXI, Monster Hunter, or Dark Souls.

Ideally, Crafters should be responsible for crafting parts that can be used to trade in for AF gear as well (I'll edit point #5from my post above to include this.)

Personally, I hate this strategy of ONLY vertical progression on gear. Vertical progression makes gear stats boring and flavorless -- furthermore, the easy race to endgame makes anything < ilvl50 pretty much irrelevant. Given enough time, all players will look exactly the same because there is a clear 'BEST' gear in the game per job. Sadly, Yoshi is highly in favor of vertical progression as well as turbo-leveling, and so that's what we have to work with.