Yoshi P's Ominous Statement About the Future of XIV

[Valence]

Conveniantly forgetting Bard and TP.

Can you elaborate?

[Kaurhz]

Conveniantly forgetting Bard and TP.

I mean sure, we can argue these things were absolute grim things(alongside many other things), especially TP when you were doing AoEs, but let's face it, when a game 'evolves' from this to being something that is largely 0 thought consequence in the majority of cases, then is it really any better? Or are you just simply opting to go for something more convenient with less thought process.

Many things were bad, but this whole situation where I AoE a trash pack for 2 minutes, pretending that I'm actually playing the game and not just watching Netflix on my second screen/TV, isn't exactly a good design either.

I want to be clear I am not saying TP is good, just pointing out that having a situation where there is no thought or consideration process is just as bad, to be honest.

[RedLolly]

Conveniantly forgetting Bard and TP.

I assume they aren't anymore. I've seen at least two different people that adored Bowmage and claim Machinist's problems are the anti-bowmage people's fault since it destroyed the intended job identity.

[TBerry]

Wasn't changing Attributes also a thing? Where you had to do it yourself after job/classchange by visiting an NPC?
Cross-class abilities?
The team just generally seeing how much shit they can get away with in Raids?

[PaulH]

Wasn't changing Attributes also a thing? Where you had to do it yourself after job/classchange by visiting an NPC?
Cross-class abilities?
The team just generally seeing how much shit they can get away with in Raids?

Yeah switching between scholar and summoner using a keepers hymn and having to change the INT/MND stats accordingly lol.

Bards LB3 used to be a rez than DPS before HW, seems funny to think about.

[Daralii]

Yeah switching between scholar and summoner using a keepers hymn and having to change the INT/MND stats accordingly lol.

Bards LB3 used to be a rez than DPS before HW, seems funny to think about.

Back before phys ranged was a "real" role. I think job-specific LB3s in general were an HW thing.

[Aidorouge]

The scoffing by the "real" MMO players of Everquest. It's like that meme with art about how the masters were the best. By that logic then cavemen were the best artists since they are the first masters.

Well, I never played Everquest so I can't attest to its difficulty personally, but yes that's another example of people trying to act like WoW was so "big and tough" when it was in fact "babby's first MMO". Even RuneScape was more demanding and grindy at the time, lol.

But yeah, while's there much to glean and learn from the past when it comes to game design, there's also a reason why some of those mechanics have been left behind or were tweaked into their current form. Everything new isn't the best thing ever or guts things too far, but patches exist to alter things until they're ideal, not to keep a game in one state forever while only fixing the occasional bug. That's literally what "maintenance mode" is and yet some people wish FF14 had entered that state back during whatever patch or expansion they considered the best ever.
+++

I do think that a lot of the "Good old days" feels that are gotten either from FFXIV or other MMORPG's are no longer possible to achieve except in very niche titles.
Back then your average MMORPG player was a different breed to now.
"Can I play it solo" is asked of every title these days, heck a solo mode request was even brought up for Arc Raiders an extraction shooter.
I am quite sure that if you had a option to "Fill encounter with Bots" mode that did the same dps as players that PF would be barren, why try farm with other players that can mess up when you can just farm with bot ones which dont."
Guides remove all variety from an encounter and we live in a goal based min max culture.

MMORPG's used to be about people interested in meeting others, now they're just a means to an end that cease to exist when you leave the instance.

In that sense, we're already treating each other like NPCs, so some would make the argument of removing the pretense and make the "MMO" part optional content.

Alternately, the mentality has to change from people viewing each other as "friction and pain points" when it comes to game progress, but that's impossible with the current design where it literally only takes one person messing up to cause a domino effect of a party wipe, people don't want to put up with others having to learn a fight, and everyone is rushrushrushrush with everything else. Even basic communication is hobbled by the looming ToS or people opting to use Discord to such a degree that FF14 feels more like the "third-party app" in that relationship.

Even the realm of RP, arguably the most social element of all, is mired in its own issues with the use of frequent modding that would put even Skyrim to shame, or how they have even less wholesome ties to gambling and RMT.

[Gaiinahat]

Sounds like to me Woke Lmao is going to be the new CEO and everything is going to be run by A.I.

[Selsix]

Back before phys ranged was a "real" role. I think job-specific LB3s in general were an HW thing.

They were, yeah. Before HW there was just three generic ones. Felt REALLY weird to use Final Heaven as a DRG back in ARR. Though using Braver and Bladedance is still quite jarring even today.

[Valence]

I mean sure, we can argue these things were absolute grim things(alongside many other things), especially TP when you were doing AoEs, but let's face it, when a game 'evolves' from this to being something that is largely 0 thought consequence in the majority of cases, then is it really any better? Or are you just simply opting to go for something more convenient with less thought process.

Many things were bad, but this whole situation where I AoE a trash pack for 2 minutes, pretending that I'm actually playing the game and not just watching Netflix on my second screen/TV, isn't exactly a good design either.

I want to be clear I am not saying TP is good, just pointing out that having a situation where there is no thought or consideration process is just as bad, to be honest.

Agreed. I also want to point out that our current MP model is literally the same as what old TP was for multiple reasons:

- Regens fast
- Everybody has the same (10k instead of 1k, same round number)
- Applies to spellcasters instead of physical classes

The big difference is that they have over time made every rotation MP neutral or positive. In ShB when TP was removed and the old MP reworked into what we have now, we still had some spellcasters with negative MP rotations, and people had to meld piety. And that's my point, TP couldn't be helped with melds, and having negative rotations is what made people mad ultimately. Nobody complains about MP today because it's an afterthought and it doesn't matter for anything beyond, at best, gating raising (and even then, parties tend to snowball and wipe before anyway).

It's depressing when I think about it.