Yoshi P's Ominous Statement About the Future of XIV

[NaoSen]

Nothing about this statement is ominous to me and I'm very happy to see Yoshi P acknowledging that the game needs to modernize. Lots of change is needed for FFXIV if it is gonna remain successful for another 10 years.

Same feeling here, its a "Lots of change is needed" statement but people in this thread are deciding to pick what "An evolving market" means, if you actually take a look to what other MMORPG's have been doing.

1. Blizzard making the game very alt friendly, adding player housing, implementing lots of QOL that used to be only gotten by addons.
2. Old School Runescape getting its update with a new skill and also a quality of levelling in the form of gemstone crab.
3. Runescape 3 taking a step to decrease monetisation in its game to be less of a microtransaction eyesore.
4. Guild Wars adding homesteads and altering how its endgame works to make it easier for new players to get into higher level raiding.

We already know that for combat they want to go for a more transformative combat skill system, one skill changing into another vs more buttons. Viper is the largest example of this.

Yet for some reason because a mobile version exists and YoshiP has vaguely commented on pathfinding FFXIV is going to change into a mobile game.
FFXIV already has a cash shop with boosts, skips, cosmetics.

"Oh but the mobile version has pay walled features", the PC entire game is paywalled behind a non-optional subscription.

Doomers going to be doomers.

[Merrigan]

The game doesn't need to modernize, it needs to improve. Modernity sucks.

Much of the improvement needed involves looking to the past and remembering what made this MMO and others great in the first place.

Hm.

I don't know if you were around in the early days of MMORPGs, but modernity definitely has its advantages. I didn't play FFXIV in its early days. I'm a regular WoW player, though, and lots of people say the same things you do. Most of the time, it's just nostalgia talking. They forget the loooooong hours spent spamming in front of the capitals to find a player to do their one and only dungeon of the evening; the endless farming for certain items; the terrible writing of the quests; the unbearable drop rate (no, it's not fun to kill 30 boars to get one boar's tooth). There are some things I sincerely regret, I'll grant you that, but to say that modernity is ‘rubbish’ is a bit dishonest, I think.

Modernity has its problems, but it's not all bad. Games tend to be more fast-paced and engaging (you'd be yawning like 90% of players if we had mechanics like those of the first MMORPG bosses). And FFXIV desperately needs this modernity, because the game suffers from a rigidity that becomes almost cadaverous over time. In general, if the community were less resistant to innovation, it would be a very good thing.

[NegativeS]

Hm.

I don't know if you were around in the early days of MMORPGs, but modernity definitely has its advantages. I didn't play FFXIV in its early days. I'm a regular WoW player, though, and lots of people say the same things you do. Most of the time, it's just nostalgia talking. They forget the loooooong hours spent spamming in front of the capitals to find a player to do their one and only dungeon of the evening; the endless farming for certain items; the terrible writing of the quests; the unbearable drop rate (no, it's not fun to kill 30 boars to get one boar's tooth). There are some things I sincerely regret, I'll grant you that, but to say that modernity is ‘rubbish’ is a bit dishonest, I think.

Modernity has its problems, but it's not all bad. Games tend to be more fast-paced and engaging (you'd be yawning like 90% of players if we had mechanics like those of the first MMORPG bosses). And FFXIV desperately needs this modernity, because the game suffers from a rigidity that becomes almost cadaverous over time. In general, if the community were less resistant to innovation, it would be a very good thing.

I think in the context of WoW, it's a little different. WoW went from what could be considered an actual difficult MMO open world to something resembling a theme park with a lot more of a focus on character stories than frankly WoW writers are capable of handling (though they are getting better!), which is why there was such a tectonic uproar for Classic around the time of the exodus. As someone who played from Wrath of the Lich King, watched the game evolve over years, then played Classic again, I am confident in saying that Classic is more of a better game overall than retail WoW is... though that's not to say there aren't things in retail that I like.

FFXIV doesn't have that problem. FFXIV never really changed after ARR, it just found a formula that worked and dug its heels in. 2.0 and 7.0 are no different in their gameplay flows, to the point where it has become a point of contention for some people. In fact, I think what little they have been 'modernizing' recently has been a net detriment for the game, that being the Trust-ification of every dungeon in the game. I will say it once and a thousand times: Large MMOs only die when their devs forget that they are supposed to be making MMOs.

[Merrigan]

I think in the context of WoW, it's a little different. WoW went from what could be considered an actual difficult MMO open world to something resembling a theme park with a lot more of a focus on character stories than frankly WoW writers are capable of handling (though they are getting better!), which is why there was such a tectonic uproar for Classic around the time of the exodus. As someone who played from Wrath of the Lich King, watched the game evolve over years, then played Classic again, I am confident in saying that Classic is more of a better game overall than retail WoW is... though that's not to say there aren't things in retail that I like.

FFXIV doesn't have that problem. FFXIV never really changed after ARR, it just found a formula that worked and dug its heels in. 2.0 and 7.0 are no different in their gameplay flows, to the point where it has become a point of contention for some people. In fact, I think what little they have been 'modernizing' recently has been a net detriment for the game, that being the Trust-ification of every dungeon in the game. I will say it once and a thousand times: Large MMOs only die when their devs forget that they are supposed to be making MMOs.

Perhaps I am comparing two things that are too different, indeed. Let me rephrase that: in general, refusing to allow MMORPGs to evolve with the times is, in my opinion, a rather harmful mentality. In the case of WOW, for what I mentioned; in the case of FFXIV, even though it's more difficult for me to say, because the game should FINALLY evolve. It's not normal for a game to remain unchanged for over 10 years.

Simple example: please, free me from these Memoquartz.

[Daralii]

Perhaps I am comparing two things that are too different, indeed. Let me rephrase that: in general, refusing to allow MMORPGs to evolve with the times is, in my opinion, a rather harmful mentality. In the case of WOW, for what I mentioned; in the case of FFXIV, even though it's more difficult for me to say, because the game should FINALLY evolve. It's not normal for a game to remain unchanged for over 10 years.

Simple example: please, free me from these Memoquartz.

The problem with most of their attempts to evolve, especially in the case of XIV, is that they've been trying to evolve into other genres. Endwalker and its patch cycle, as per Yoshida, was the beginning of an attempt to turn it into a solo game. DT, as per Yoshida, has been an attempt to throw random shit at the wall and see if anything sticks. Neither of these cases give me the impression that CS3 knows what they're doing or make me optimistic about the game's future.

[Merrigan]

The problem with most of their attempts to evolve, especially in the case of XIV, is that they've been trying to evolve into other genres. Endwalker and its patch cycle, as per Yoshida, was the beginning of an attempt to turn it into a solo game. DT, as per Yoshida, has been an attempt to throw random shit at the wall and see if anything sticks. Neither of these cases give me the impression that CS3 knows what they're doing or make me optimistic about the game's future.

Dt has brought some good things, notably a revamp of the boss battles, which I think is worth highlighting (and has been well received).

I think we should be concerned when a game stops trying new things, not when it continues to experiment. In any case, what is the alternative? Staying stuck with an outdated formula that is repeated with every expansion?

[Absurdity]

Dt has brought some good things, notably a revamp of the boss battles, which I think is worth highlighting (and has been well received).

Debatable, it has been well received by people who already enjoyed the ShB/Enwalker formula of bosses because all that Dawntrail has done is take that formula and crank it up.

It's less of a revamp and more of just doing the same thing but faster.

[Merrigan]

Debatable, it has been well received by people who already enjoyed the ShB/Enwalker formula of bosses because all that Dawntrail has done is take that formula and crank it up.

It's less of a revamp and more of just doing the same thing but faster.

On the contrary, it seems to me that the design of the Endwalker bosses was widely criticised: very predictable (e.g. AOE on the entire group at the start). DT breaks this cycle of monotony by adding speed and nervosity.

That said, I'm basing this on what I've seen in-game and feedback on the forum. It should be taken with a pinch of salt, as many people remain silent. But I have a fairly clear memory of people being happy that we were finally breaking the boring Endwalker formula.

I was going to edit the previous message, but I'll just add this here I would just like to point out an example that I found rather sad "recently": Endwalker may have turned resolutely towards single-player gameplay, but the quest design was interesting... And it wasn't out of place in the context of FFXIV's MSQ (which has always been very solo-oriented anyway). That was a real modernisation: after entire expansions where the quests all worked in pretty much the same way, we finally had some worthwhile experiments.

It was very poorly received. Unfortunately, because we then went back to the old way. I think it's a pretty good example of an experiment that should have been more widely praised – because, in this case, the game really needs to address the issue of quest design.

[NegativeS]

Perhaps I am comparing two things that are too different, indeed. Let me rephrase that: in general, refusing to allow MMORPGs to evolve with the times is, in my opinion, a rather harmful mentality. In the case of WOW, for what I mentioned; in the case of FFXIV, even though it's more difficult for me to say, because the game should FINALLY evolve. It's not normal for a game to remain unchanged for over 10 years.

Simple example: please, free me from these Memoquartz.

I can accept that. But like I said, the devs need to keep in mind they are making an MMO. Not a visual novel, not a puzzle game, not a single player RPG, not a gacha game, not Dance Dance Revloution.

With all the flaws WoW has introduced into their game as the years have gone by, it still feels like an MMO, probably because they started out as deep into the definition as a game can go. Can't really say that for FFXIV these days.

[Deejudanne]

Dt has brought some good things, notably a revamp of the boss battles, which I think is worth highlighting (and has been well received).

I think we should be concerned when a game stops trying new things, not when it continues to experiment. In any case, what is the alternative? Staying stuck with an outdated formula that is repeated with every expansion?

thats kinda what they have been doing though, feels like they should stop throwing out 2 new classes every expansion and put that energy into the game