SE isn't hearing the community RE: Job Feedback & Simplification

[Xieldras]

My next bet will be Bard. It's probably one of the jobs that has multiple layers to keep an eye on. Debuffs, buff timers, song rotation, gauge bar. I can already see another comment such as:

"Future battle design may cause difficulty with shooting arrows"

I'm gonna enjoy BRD while it lasts.

On one hand, BRD does have more things to keep track of. On the other, the rDPS role is the red-haired child of the jobs in this game so the Devs are more likely to ignore it entirely. DoTs are on the chopping block for sure though I think.

I'm a casual player, but honestly a lot of the normal fights have me spending time on the ground waiting as too many mechanics are simply too fast. I'm sorry I can't notice that thing in the background that was visible for only a few seconds? And that I didn't watch a video before delving into the new content as I want to experience the whole thing myself instead of through a tutorial?

This whole focus on Encounter Design is more akin to sticking as much stuff on the screen and environment as a display of spectacle, where you have no choice but to focus on it lest you die, and is honestly a reason that a few threads have popped up over in General Discussion over eye-hurting VFX.

On the other end, we have the options in-game to remove other players' VFX, better replayability value if you focus on Job design, and an actual desire to level them up. It seems simply better to focus on Job Design instead, for the game's long-term health.

Where are the Devs willing to go until they are satisfied with their Job Designs? With BLM changed, now it seems like not one is safe.

[Azurarok]

Difficulty to me should partly come in hand with the job, Healers shouldn't be joke roles, Tanks are very hyper defensive with no aggro management, Theirs no DPS jobs like black mage where movement is important to manage anymore, they have to depend so heavily on fight design to carry the lack of Job design at this point, which hurts the game in all tiers of play, we need a balance of both Job and fight design, not one being pushed aside so the other is took to extremes

Agreed, DT's approach ironically makes the game less accessible, which was something varied jobs and simpler encounters were better at offering. Getting encounter gimmicks right is usually pretty necessary even in MSQ dungeons, but a perfect rotation isn't.

[brinn12]

Melees got buffed to the heavens, only for the developers to introduce ranged downtime and have rangeds single target while melees AoE.

[Taranok]

My next bet will be Bard. It's probably one of the jobs that has multiple layers to keep an eye on. Debuffs, buff timers, song rotation, gauge bar. I can already see another comment such as:

"Future battle design may cause difficulty with shooting arrows"

I'm gonna enjoy BRD while it lasts.

I'd love for the DoTs to be removed, mostly because the DoTs are bad for the game due to 'bad' server code. I still remember when a perfect play SMN caused it to gain 25% more damage over BLM due to gross and flagrant abuse of buff and debuff snapshotting on their 4 separate targetable buffs (including miasma 2!) which they could extend for +15 seconds using the aoe pet. If they could add WoW-style server code, I'd love to see them bring back true DoT classes, but they need the ability to update the damage live as buffs and debuffs change. Otherwise it will always be a hot mess best described as: "Literally any normal cooldown, but it takes a long time to happen."

Ideally I'd pair it with actual animations for the DoTs, because seeing a single giant DoT number explode is just, honestly, a bit boring. At least pair it with a bleeding effect or what have you. And, of course, let players manipulate DoTs (and HoTs!) like a WoW resto druid.

To put it more simply: I hate DoTs because FFXIV's server code for DoTs is awful. Fix that, and they should bring DoTs back. Also kill the 2m meta. I want bard to go back to being the definitive proc class, which it just hasn't been for a long, long time.

[Azurarok]

I want to go back to dot proc BRD and dot mage pet job SMN

[Stigs]

A year ago, Yoshi-P said that they would stop making jobs simpler

I'm pretty sure in a later interview Yoshi P clarified this was a mistranslation and we wouldn't be seeing any shift in job design until 8.0. They even clarified I think in the live letter for 7.1 that job changes were going to be done according to the current philosophy, as the content is still being designed around simple jobs.

The reason one would huff hopium is that they promised more interesting fights, and judging from this tier and its reception, they've delivered.

This is capitalism. They don't care about a minority who "keeps the game afloat" during periods without new content, they want the majority to play the game and maintain their subscriptions for those periods too.
It's why it doesn't matter at all if you are upset by the game becoming more mainstream in the job design, it doesn't matter if you unsubscribe if the "tourists" become consistent subscribers. You're literally nobody in comparison to the majority.

I would agree with this if I hadn't seen the shift in design trends moving from the PS3 generation to the PS4 one, and the lessons almost every Japanese developer has taken from the success of Fromsoft. A lot of game franchises either died, almost died, or went on decade long hiatuses due to abandoning their core audience in a bid to attract the attention of the larger pool of casual players (Ninja Gaiden, DmC, Metroid Prime 3, Dead Space 3, Castlevania, ironically FFXIII, probably more).

Modern developers know that you need to please both in order to be successful. I remember reading interviews about how casual players have no brand loyalty, and banking on them entirely is extremely risky, and I'm sure you'd agree that a major component of capitalism is risk aversion. Another element is that your most loyal fans are probably your biggest advocates(but also your biggest haters), especially today when influencers decide so much of the discourse surrounding games. The effect of videos with hundreds of thousands of views taking dumps on the game is debatable, but positive word-of-mouth has been shown to be extremely beneficial to growth. The only reason Dark Souls was made was because Demon's Souls was a cult classic, and the success of Dark Souls was much the same.

Why would Capcom cave in to demands about Dragon's Dogma 2 due to a (largely misinformed) twitter backlash if they didn't care what those players thought? Why does almost every competitive multiplayer game balance around the top 1% of players? Hell, why does XIV get so much raid content in the first place if they don't care about that playerbase?

[Carighan]

I'm pretty sure in a later interview Yoshi P clarified this was a mistranslation and we wouldn't be seeing any shift in job design until 8.0. They even clarified I think in the live letter for 7.1 that job changes were going to be done according to the current philosophy, as the content is still being designed around simple jobs.

I mean that's sad of course, but I guess I can understand that. The content is probably just about finalized at this point, so they can't just unilaterally change job design concepts.

[Valgor]

can you have good raid/trial/dungeon design if don't think the jobs you're playing are fun ?

Well yeah, we can. As long as PvE content is "follow a choregraphy", it doesn't matter much if the skillset is complicated or not : in the end, there simply is 1 optimal choice and we're doing more or less mistakes. Jobs complexity or uniqueness won't change this, the direction has been set ever since they switched from difficult skillsets to difficult encounters, just like multiple buffs throughout the various jobs had to end up in an harmonized burst window to limit the frictions for the greater part of the playerbase.

The main issue is that there is only ONE PvE content (which is a choregraphy), even though we're offered multiple niche to enjoy it, whether it be easier or harder (from dungeons / Extreme trials to Ultimate raids), for a small group or a larger groups (respectively Criterion dungeons and Alliance or Chaotic raids). Even FATEs and fields of operation are following the same structure. It doesn't matter much whether the skillset is complex, unique or not because it's not the main feature anymore.

This doesn't mean it's acceptable (and truth be told, it's quite unimaginative) because these contents take months to design and an hour or two to clear (except for Savage and Ultimate), especially since the vast majority of the playerbase follow guides without learning by themselves. Why isn't there any random factor, why even things that look random are clearly not (M6S cacti spawn positions for instance) ? Why isn't there such a content where we have to understand a certain logic rather than a dance, or scaled contents, or anything creative ?

As for jobs themselves, this is an obvious attempt at letting more people enjoy PvE which is a good thing. However, a new expansion should be the occasion to offer a choice and let some jobs experience a less rigid rotation, on top of the current ones. We've reached such an homogenization that all jobs are perfectly balanced (among their specific roles : physical ranged endure a DPS tax for no reason and some magical ones as well) since Endwalker, we don't need a new attack on each expansion that should feel satisfying without hitting the very rigid skillsets all jobs have acquired.

This being said, they have to work with a rather outdated engine and an animation-lock system prevents more dynamic skillsets : 2,50 base GCD is an insanely long moment to wait and oGCDs are merely an attempt at making it look less slow. It also makes the game close to a turn-by-turn / ATB system that FF is known for. My plea would be to make a new content that wouldn't feel so much of a constraint with more random things mixed with more dynamic skillsets, all of which would be parallel to what we currently have.

[Valence]

The reason one would huff hopium is that they promised more interesting fights, and judging from this tier and its reception, they've delivered.

Like what exactly? M6S?

What about the rest?
- The UnderKeep: same snoozefest, same mechanics
- Recollection: same boss trial as ever
- M5 to M8 storymode: same boss trials as ever, I'll give bonus points for M7N that have us moving through some arenas.
- M5S, M7S, M8S, same stuff.

Don't get me wrong, I do love what they did with M6S, but what else? What has been delivered??

[Carighan]

Okay? M5S feels quite unique, as does EX4 with the connecting flower fields used for variable-size towers? Sure, maybe if you're just following a guide and doing it step-by-step as they say, but going in blind and figuring it out was quite a change from earlier fights.