Stormblood Scholar could be back in 8.0

[Rein_eon_Osborne]

[...]Do I have to choose between damage or healing.

Might as well delete all our GCD nukes and heals then turn them all into GCD Assize. Oh yeah, add Resurrection effect to that too, because apparently you do need to choose whether to Broil or raise your ally. Now your new hypothetical GCD Assize will raise anybody's dead as well.

That's how it sounded to me.

[Supersnow845]

Imagine of we have old kit dark knight.. but you consume 3% of your health to do 3% extra damage, it is underwhelming and doesn't reflect any meaningful change.
And how you balance dark knight now to other tanks?
Either you give all tanks same kind of skill or you remove this mechanic completely.

Keeping it will cause balance issue or homenization issue

Except there is no balance issue with ED right now because no matter how many ED’s SCH use they do more damage than SGE.

You could entirely delete ED right now and it still wouldn’t change the current balance

If SCH weaponising ED actually meaningfully Tipped balance one way or another you may have a point, but even in that case you could also fix it in the other direction by not making SGE’s damage profile so static

Since healing requirements scale with gear there is always going to be an element of needing to heal this week but not next week, if you can’t flux your healing to damage profile you end up just wasting heals, and that’s what SGE is, a healer that excels in wasting heals

[BabyYoda]

Except there is no balance issue with ED right now because no matter how many ED’s SCH use they do more damage than SGE.

You could entirely delete ED right now and it still wouldn’t change the current balance

If SCH weaponising ED actually meaningfully Tipped balance one way or another you may have a point, but even in that case you could also fix it in the other direction by not making SGE’s damage profile so static

Since healing requirements scale with gear there is always going to be an element of needing to heal this week but not next week, if you can’t flux your healing to damage profile you end up just wasting heals, and that’s what SGE is, a healer that excels in wasting heals

And now we have to give ED to not only sage but to white mage and astrologian.. or we will be in balance hell or we just reduce the impact to the point where how currently ED do.

"How many ED do I have to use to balance Scholar damage to other healers" is a good question.. this question is showing how this can't be fun and balance at the same time

[Sylvain]

And now we have to give ED to not only sage but to white mage and astrologian.. or we will be in balance hell or we just reduce the impact to the point where how currently ED do.

WHM already has lilies and assize. And yes Lilies can be dumped for extra dps by either doing it while the boss is not here. During movement as or just to have a blood lilly ready at the two minute mark for the burst window.
Assize also poses the problem of either you never delay it and, most likely unless in a very organised group, waste the heal, or delay it and get the heal but loose the damage. It's a "dps OR heal" unless you manage to have all of them heal.

AST has Earthly Star which kind of has the same issue than Assize, except that you have a 10s margin of error. But that's really all the same thing.

"How many ED do I have to use to balance Scholar damage to other healers" is a good question.. this question is showing how this can't be fun and balance at the same time

The issue is that even if ED were to be removed there'd be other point of contention.
Now it's ED, then it's RuinII being trashed compared to Toxikon, then it is Phylosophia having more passive regen than Seraphism, then it is something else, and something else, and something else, until they're the exact same carbon copy so we can complain that every job is the same.

[Tunda]

WHM already has lilies and assize. And yes Lilies can be dumped for extra dps by either doing it while the boss is not here. During movement as or just to have a blood lilly ready at the two minute mark for the burst window.
Assize also poses the problem of either you never delay it and, most likely unless in a very organised group, waste the heal, or delay it and get the heal but loose the damage. It's a "dps OR heal" unless you manage to have all of them heal.

AST has Earthly Star which kind of has the same issue than Assize, except that you have a 10s margin of error. But that's really all the same thing.


The issue is that even if ED were to be removed there'd be other point of contention.
Now it's ED, then it's RuinII being trashed compared to Toxikon, then it is Phylosophia having more passive regen than Seraphism, then it is something else, and something else, and something else, until they're the exact same carbon copy so we can complain that every job is the same.

Lilly system is different as it give you 1 hard hitting attack every 3 specific healing GCD.. It will not let you choose between 2 different routes

Assize is a oGCD which do both as it is good with no problem in the design (even though I don't like oGCD spells that do damage with healers).. It will not let you choose between 2 different routes

Earthly Star is same as Assize.

Phylosophia is 180s spell which is fine to have and It will not let you choose between 2 different routes

RuinII being trashed compared to Toxikon because RuinII is trash .. giving people a bad option then you call it Non-Homogenized design will not work.

"Phylosophia having more passive regen than Seraphism" thats why they reduce SGE damage.. but it is a fair trade as It will not let you choose between 2 different routes.

the solution of how to make healers different is how they interact with their own heals making them unique in a gameplay perspective not as what we see now (shield/pure) healers

[Sylvain]

Lilly system is different as it give you 1 hard hitting attack every 3 specific healing GCD.. It will not let you choose between 2 different routes

Assize is a oGCD which do both as it is good with no problem in the design (even though I don't like oGCD spells that do damage with healers).. It will not let you choose between 2 different routes

Earthly Star is same as Assize.

that is where you're wrong

Whenever you use Assize on CD, you have two event which can unfold. You Heal AND damage, or you simply damage (because everyone is at 100%).
When you use the latter option, you decided to ignore the heal in purse of the damage. You could hold on assize until the next raid burster and use the skill so that it both heal and damage.
Because it has a short CD of 45s, depending on the killing time you can either delay it up to 44s cumulatively, or not at all to avoid loosing uses.
Unless it is only a few seconds (like the boss is currently casting a raidburster). Repetitive assize delay to get the healing (so that means, you choose the healing over the damage) can result in less assize per fight.
The same applies to Earthly Star except that the CD is longer (so more delay can be done before loosing one usage) and there's a 10s room. But it's still the same logic.

Everytime you use those abilities and they result in no healing (or excessive overhealing), you choose to damage over healing. Which is no different than SCH choosing an ED over an Indom.

Lillies can also be used in the same way. You can keep them solely for healing or use them as movement tool or simply burn them during downtime while the boss isn't here because 1 lilly = 1 glare.
And yes it is a dps gain to do that.

Everytime you assize, Earthly Star or Lilly whenever people are at 100% health you sacrifice healing potential for DPS.
This is no different than a SCH sacrificing a flux for ED.

One difference I give you is that Assize, Earthly Star and Lilly can do both healing AND damage, which ED can't.

But yet again, it's a false sens of choice. Because Assize, Earthly Star and Lilly shouldn't be used for damage if this results in a dead group in the exact same manner ED shouldn't be used if it result in you lacking options to keep the group alive.

People say "Assize should only be used for DPS", this is not true. Assize can 99.9% of the time exclusively be used for damage. But if for whatever reason you know that holding on assize to heal the next mechanic will make the difference between a wipe and a clear, then using assize for DPS would be the wrong choice. Your goal above all else is still to keep people alive. The same goes Earthly Star, Lilly and ED.

Assize/Earthly Star on CD, Lilly for movement/downtime and ED are the result of us having more tools than needed to heal.
Supersnow is right saying that Sage is poorly designed because it has no avenue to expend excess heal.

[Azurarok]

Assize also comes with MP recovery (which tbf ED also used to), which makes it worth using on CD regardless of whether the healing is wasted or not, even from a healing standpoint.

Fights also tend to open with raidwides and often stay lined up with its 40s CD so the healing's often not wasted either.

[BabyYoda]

.

Choosing between glare or lily is what you suppose to do brother.. this is how healer design to be to choose between healing when needed ot damage when needed.

Assize as I said is a different story with different problem that ED.. Assize give you both options and you can choose to press it now for damage or wait when raid wide to get both damage and healing.
As I said I never liked skills like this unless it is 120s CD which usually how big AoEs are.

But ED let you choose to do damage and gain MP or heal with no MP.. this choice doesn't matter and this is the problem.. damage is low and not satisfying and you can waist 2.5 second to heal the same amount with GCD heal.

This is the issue with ED.. Assize feel satisfying even that I don't like it.. either they keep it 120 sec or remove the healing aspect to it.

[Supersnow845]

Choosing between glare or lily is what you suppose to do brother.. this is how healer design to be to choose between healing when needed ot damage when needed.

Assize as I said is a different story with different problem that ED.. Assize give you both options and you can choose to press it now for damage or wait when raid wide to get both damage and healing.
As I said I never liked skills like this unless it is 120s CD which usually how big AoEs are.

But ED let you choose to do damage and gain MP or heal with no MP.. this choice doesn't matter and this is the problem.. damage is low and not satisfying and you can waist 2.5 second to heal the same amount with GCD heal.

This is the issue with ED.. Assize feel satisfying even that I don't like it.. either they keep it 120 sec or remove the healing aspect to it.

Energy drain hasn’t given MP in a long time, SCH’s MP comes from aetherflow itself

[Tunda]

Energy drain hasn’t given MP in a long time, SCH’s MP comes from aetherflow itself

Yes you are right,

It is trading damage with Hp with no MP gains, and it has no actual effect in fight which is illusion of choice