Sundering stuff established in the Q&A

[EaraGrace]

Because they did expect it themselves? Even g'raha did...

So you agree then that they aren’t doing this for their own benefit unlike the Ancients.

By the Twelve.... it's like you skip what I said. Do you know what "IF" is? I know they get help from midgarsormr, but this is after the fact that the timeline is split and they don't have any means to reverse time since the technology is inside the Tower. That's when they finally start facing the reality they're in.

Which would be exactly what she desires no? Offering a better future for others and then committing to fighting for tomorrow? Do I wish they also had that in mind before the Crystal Tower left? Sure. But the lesson to gain from it wasn’t to not try to make a better world for others, but to do so and fight for your own future as well.

Might sound cold, but next generation doesn't stop at your child generation /shrug.

Yeah they just had to sacrifice their children, it totally needed to happen. It’s not like they were doing so only out of selfish desire to avoid suffering at the cost of other human lives.

I don't see the devs confirmation, so... But anyway, even if they use their younglings, my point still stand. You know, about how the 8UC Ironworks did the same as the Ancients basically.

Wait, I’m sorry where did the Ironworks crew stand to benefit from succeeding in changing the timeline? Tell me exactly what those individuals would have gained.

They wouldn’t, they’d either be dead or left adrift.

And how does it's gonna happen if the rejoining doesn't happen? Or if emet didn't become the sundered's enemy?

Lacking Lahabrea or Elidibus at his side, Emets next steps are a lot less set in stone. Perhaps Venat would have sought him out as the two last Unsundered (were literally shown he can be practical and swap positions when he needs to in Elpis). Or if he still tries to enact the Ardor there’d be only one Unsundered to contend with and thus his death/regaining memories would happen sooner and much more simply. Either way, Hydaelyn would gain an ally and the two could work together to prepare the Sundered.

Why would she think the unsundered can help us battling pure dynamis being.

Exactly what we would find in Ultima Thule was unknown to everyone, so the point is to have as many potential cards as possible within the limitations of the situation. Having Emet and Hythlos spirits allowed us to reach Meteion and open the way forward where we couldn’t before. As Emet says Venat “allowed for this outcome.”

I never say rejoining is her primary intention…

I disagree with it because I don’t think her statements or actions match with that idea. Take this line for example.



Now let’s put our writing caps on for a moment. If my intention is for Hydaelyn to work to bring about the WoL by allowing and aiding in the Ardor, what would this line mean? After all, if the goal is to make sure the timelines remain together then Hydaelyn hasn’t actually failed, at all, ever, at any point. She’s succeeded, despite the odds against Her. So how do we explain this?

We can’t, with that plan in mind.

Anyway, again, she doesn't know the detail of the future. Hence why every action she took can be described as "gamble"…

First, her whole "kill all the Acians and prevent rejoinings" thing are something crucial since 2.0. Way, way before EW is even conceived...

Not knowing the future creates more than a gamble, it makes every decision, including the decision not to act, a potential timeline failing moment. The risk gets exponentially higher with every event, every intervention, which makes her efforts to intervene in the Rejoinings unwise at best and downright playing in traffic levels of risk at worst. Committing to the Rejoinings would work, if she knew the events that needed to occur to cause them at the right time. Not knowing that, and believing the timeline is malleable, means one wrong call in one era with regards to one actor results in the end of all things.

And right, it’s clear that from a meta perspective they didn’t plan this out all in advance 10 years ago. The problem however is that the writers went to great lengths to connect and fit the revelations in Endwalker to previous lore. Not with 100% success of course, but it’s clear they made an effort. The convo with the Watcher is evidence of that, as that’s clearly the writers addressing discontinuity with an additive retcon.

I will however point out that the line above that I posted happens after Elpis.

Second, and this is more in-game excuse. Rejoinings not only completed Zodiark, but also caused Her to grow weaker. She still needed her strength to save us and pull us to the aetherial sea (or whatever place we met her and minfilia a couple of times). On the boat scene, after saying she failed preventing rejoinings, her main concern about it is them sapping her strength. Besides, if she didn't gave the sundered enough power to try and slow down the rejoinings, it would be completed way too early before the WoL come into existence (aka timeline get screwed).

Agreed! There’s a very real cost to her power, one that runs dangerously close to depleting her entirely. Which makes it even more baffling that she would waste strength offering crystals or blessing to those who she would believe are doomed. Doing so would be a needless waste of resources in this case and potentially lead to a disaster. Unless of course she was making a real effort to stop the Rejoinings, but was forced to ration her strength.

And yeah, her plan has a very high chance of failure, and even the "let WoL deal with it" is basically just her putting all eggs in one basket. That's why people caller her out.

Perhaps our disagreement comes down to our read of Venat as a person then. I don’t see her committing to such a risky scheme when other alternatives exist. The Sundering was a Hail Mary, relying on the Rejoinings after that would stretch possibility.

Oh I am. Because "venat made sure the timeline stay" isn't conflicted with "past and present were part of the same timeline". Because if we ask "how is it the same"? Then "Venat made sure it does" can be the answer. See how "past and present were part on the same timeline" doesn't explain anything about "what happened", only that yes, it's a timeloop.

Why did he say “another interpretation” Kozh? Why distinguish between the two at all. Saying they can be compatible doesn’t answer that. If he thinks they are the same, why make the distinction.

Go ahead and show me the quote where he explicitly says he doesn't agree with it.

“My interpretation” vs “another interpretation” means he believes one and not the other. This is how language works.

?????? I wasn't even trying to be sarcastic, what in the ever living fuck???

Oh I know.

But I certainly was being sarcastic.