What is one aspect of MMO design past or present that wish was added or taken away.

[VelKallor]

Maybe if you purposely took a quest that took you across the world, only to then take another that did the same. Normal folks, you see, simply left a given zone when they had no more use for it. And they didn't typically come back.

I take it you arent a crafter.

Heres a partial list of materials for crafting at early and max levels that are in those zones

Koppranickel, Stiperstone, Azurite, High Steel, ephemeral nodes, Doman steel, Oroshigane, Tama Hagane, Kudzu cloth, Kudzu vines, Bloodhemp, Star Spinel, Durium, Molybdenum, Kyanite, a very large list of various CUL ALCH LW and carpenter recipe ingredients,

Or the custom deliveries. Charlemend, Ehil Tou for example.

In any case Ive made my point.

[DPZ2]

Alternatively, and a bit more quickly, you can take the Airship from Limsa Lominsa to Gridania. Then you can zone to Old Gridania, go over to East Shroud from the Ferry by the Lancer's Guild. Talk to the Twin Adders Agent, Castrum Oriens -> The Peaks -> The Lochs. Bam.

Fun times.

Now, to make it even more realistic, the airship from Limsa Lominsa to Gridania takes 10 minutes, as it is no longer just a cut-scene, but has to model some distance between zones. Unfortunately, there is only one airship making the trip, and it leaves once every six hours in-game. You can set your watch by it.

The Ferry to the East Shroud takes 5 minutes, but only leaves once every hour-and-a-half.

You have to have orders that you can obtain from any Grand Company officer in Ul'dah in order to get past the sentry at the Gridanian border into Ala Mhigo. Did I fail to mention that before? Go back to Ul'dah and start over.

Did I also mention that you have no flying mounts and the border guards will not let you take a Chocobo through into Castrum Oriens?

In order to simulate the long distances between zones, that little blackout period you see now is replaced by a spectacularly rendered tunnel for 15 minutes.

I could go on and on and on about the virtues of land travel in an MMORPG. And don't even get me started talking about the trip to Kugane from Limsa Lominsa ...

Smile.

[Awha]

Fun times.

Now, to make it even more realistic, the airship from Limsa Lominsa to Gridania takes 10 minutes, as it is no longer just a cut-scene, but has to model some distance between zones. Unfortunately, there is only one airship making the trip, and it leaves once every six hours in-game. You can set your watch by it.

The Ferry to the East Shroud takes 5 minutes, but only leaves once every hour-and-a-half.

You have to have orders that you can obtain from any Grand Company officer in Ul'dah in order to get past the sentry at the Gridanian border into Ala Mhigo. Did I fail to mention that before? Go back to Ul'dah and start over.

Did I also mention that you have no flying mounts and the border guards will not let you take a Chocobo through into Castrum Oriens?

In order to simulate the long distances between zones, that little blackout period you see now is replaced by a spectacularly rendered tunnel for 15 minutes.

I could go on and on and on about the virtues of land travel in an MMORPG. And don't even get me started talking about the trip to Kugane from Limsa Lominsa ...

Smile.

Honestly does not sound all that bad.

[Vyrerus]

Fun times.

Now, to make it even more realistic, the airship from Limsa Lominsa to Gridania takes 10 minutes, as it is no longer just a cut-scene, but has to model some distance between zones. Unfortunately, there is only one airship making the trip, and it leaves once every six hours in-game. You can set your watch by it.

The Ferry to the East Shroud takes 5 minutes, but only leaves once every hour-and-a-half.

You have to have orders that you can obtain from any Grand Company officer in Ul'dah in order to get past the sentry at the Gridanian border into Ala Mhigo. Did I fail to mention that before? Go back to Ul'dah and start over.

Did I also mention that you have no flying mounts and the border guards will not let you take a Chocobo through into Castrum Oriens?

In order to simulate the long distances between zones, that little blackout period you see now is replaced by a spectacularly rendered tunnel for 15 minutes.

I could go on and on and on about the virtues of land travel in an MMORPG. And don't even get me started talking about the trip to Kugane from Limsa Lominsa ...

Smile.

In FFXI airship travel took about 6 minutes in the air, and then docked for 3 minutes at each city. So worst case scenario was waiting 9 minutes to board, and then another 9 to touch down in your destination city.

The imposition on the zone line ferry is asinine. Not even the intercontinental ferries in FFXI had such a thing.

Why Ul'dah specifically? That makes no sense, since each Grand Company has their own set of orders, you'd get it from your own Grand Company.

Castrum Oriens is the zone line, and you gain access there in the first place to fight in the war effort. They are in no position to stop you from anything, least of all using your Grand Company issued chocobo.

Loading tunnels don't work like that. They last longer based on how fast your system can load the tunnel. No zoning ever takes 15 minutes, even in old MMOs.

Seeing how your ideas are half baked and not scary otherwise, you've made no point.

/grin

[Eris4494]

I wish for the large cities from 1.0 to come back and the ability to skip cutscenes in main story quest roulette.

[DPZ2]

Seeing how your ideas are half baked and not scary otherwise, you've made no point.

There was a point to my post?!? Nah, I just wanted to take the "travel took time and was cooler way back when" crowd to their [il]logical limits.

Why Ul'dah? Because that's the territory the acting head of government in Castrum Oriens comes from.

Your description about airship travel in FFXI being so convenient is interesting. I had been led to believe that it sometimes took days in-game to travel from one point to another, with fierce unfriendly foes along the way. I guess all of that new-fangled convenience had to be in the game eventually. What next? Teleportation via Gate Crystals?!?

Just looked it up -- wow, you had to come up with 500,000 gil in order to start using Airships (or, well, I guess, a laundry list of items)? Sounds like a gil-sink to me for sure. And, dang, I feel sorry for those using the ferries. Undead pirate attacks?!? and a 15 minute in-game trip ?!?

All in all, I find that video game travel is a unique hybrid of boredom, annoyance and convenience that serves to break up one's cleverly designed schedule for performing tasks in-game.

Back in the days when I started WoW, it was fine taking that 11 minute flight from Stranglethorn Vale to Ghost Lands. I had all the time in the world - hours each day when I could look in awe at that the scenery along the flight paths ... or not. Unfortunately, Netflix wasn't really all that good back then, and watching DVDs meant I had to be in the other room.

[Shurrikhan]

Heres a partial list of materials for crafting at early and max levels that are in those zones

Koppranickel, Stiperstone, Azurite, High Steel, ephemeral nodes, Doman steel, Oroshigane, Tama Hagane, Kudzu cloth, Kudzu vines, Bloodhemp, Star Spinel, Durium, Molybdenum, Kyanite, a very large list of various CUL ALCH LW and carpenter recipe ingredients,

You're quoting a line about WoW, as per your previous post's complaint, quoted just before that line, about:

WOW, the failed 16 year old model of MMO, [in which] you spend 85% travel and 15% ( if even that ) DOING anything

In any case Ive made my point.

Probably not the one you meant to make, though, unless you wanted to prove a lack of a topical awareness (even when having been the one to start into said topic)...

Again, in a game that wasn't built around teleport, you would not have random individually trivial tasks that send you from one end of the world to the other ad nauseum.

Like putting aside all the stuff about 'joy of motion' because sure it doesn't feel great or compelling just to engage with movement mechanics

Put it aside? How? We've never had it here in XIV.

I jest, but we've really no basis within XIV from which to judge whether movement mechanics would be compelling here in XIV as we only have the barest semblance of them. They have, however, certainly felt great and compelling in what few games actually utilize them well.

[Shougun]

Put it aside? How? We've never had it here in XIV.

I jest, but we've really no basis within XIV from which to judge whether movement mechanics would be compelling here in XIV as we only have the barest semblance of them. They have, however, certainly felt great and compelling in what few games actually utilize them well.

I think some people have never played (or at least appreciated the values from, that we're discussing) something like Journey, heard how the devs of assassins creed games talk about their movement systems (or how players just love climbing, leaping, going through the environments), the purposeful space used in Shadow of the Colossus, or noticed the forced traveling mechanics in such a game like Red Dead 2, minimized fast travels in GTA to further build the city, the in-built road trip of FFXV, or heck.. the king of traveling... heard of Death Stranding and ran away screaming.

I can't say traveling would be for everyone, but developers, of legendary games, have spent long hours talking about the fun of movement, have purposefully built in long journeys (with game design around it, which is key importance).. Of course if you have a barren world and a just okay movement system it's not that fun and you don't appreciate people making you take even longer. But.. for people who are thinking the 'joy of movement' or whatever you want to call it, the great journey, what have you, it's not just one system that makes that experience. It's not just.. one thing that comes together.. which is why I kind of gave it a cutesy catch phrase name like joy of movement, but it's an idea of flow that at least personally resonates very well.

It's going to be many systems working together, everyone on the same page. When you get the great feeling movement, with the great environment, and the gameplay design to recognize it, when you get the story in on it- all these things start to click to make an "epic". Certainly a task that can't just be rammed right in at the end up Thal's halls, slap your hands, and call it easy done, and that's why I feel it fits so well into the wish thread lol. Of course I wish it see an MMO that hits that right stride, but I'm not thinking FFXIV is going to magically change all the systems to make it happen (and also those changes will probably take some people off guard, not entirely wise). Also some people keep misreading, like when I said lets not having it take forever and another responds with "you want it to take forever" and I said.. no literally no.. but I also don't want it to be thirty seconds of w and space bar with everything in-between generally being 'nothing'.

Of course again wanting to note that I do feel FFXIV tried in some ways (on travel, not so much on fun moving mechanics) they clearly prevented flying till after the MSQ to try and make the epic experience. Which was feedback before they added flying that at least I, and I imagine some others, had. At the time saying if flying is unlocked right away it's going to really mess with everything. I'm glad they've used the system they've used so far, though I can see how it makes an issue for players joining in really late.

[VelKallor]

eard how the devs of assassins creed games talk about their movement systems (or how players just love climbing, leaping, going through the environments

Is not an MMO.

I'll see your single player non pay to play game and reply with all of the Fallout and Elder Scrolls games, all of which have instant teleport.

[Shurrikhan]

I'll see your single player non pay to play game and reply with all of the Fallout and Elder Scrolls games, all of which have instant teleport.

They also, again, have nothing by which to even attempt 'joy of movement'.

Compare that, again, to the previously mentioned GW2, which, while still pretty basic in its physics, has mount-unique benefits for zone traversal that can tap into 'joy of movement'.

To be clear, again, the interest is unlikely to be in inconvenient travel for the sake of inconvenience. Rather, I suspect the interest is in avoiding the bullshit that reliance on instant travel enables, e.g.:

• world's-end-to-world's-end travel for effectively no gameplay,
• basic af physics that can at best barely tap into joy of movement,
• zones being introduced mostly just in the sense of linear, amusement park rides in which to house <talk to A, go to B, kill C, pick 5 D> generic quest systems for the MSQ (and for which even unique awards attached to FATEs, themselves in no way tying uniquely said zone beyond their Shared Fates rank, can only briefly buoy relevance),
• attention-deficient or thinned-out MSQ for any given greater region (e.g., Gyr Albania, Othard) within an expansion,
• etc., etc.