Can we bring Thief back into the fold?

[LolitaBansheeMeru]

Are you saying Seraphor is lying or the devs? Just want to be clear that the devs said Rogue is Thief. Well that and there is a clear relationship between Rogue and Thief in classic abilities (even if some are modified for balance or whatever other reasons).

both are liars,

also Thief is way superior to ninja

also we can literaly fucking turn undead as drk ...

next you don't need an entire table just let them steal items that the things naturally carry.

also screw heros we have been villian like since arr end

[Shougun]

I feel calling people a liar is pretty insulting but not sure if that's 'enough' to get a warning; however, your other swear word shouldn't be used and it's saving grace is probably that you didn't use it AT someone. Still, besides editing your post to adjust I'm not sure if the discussion is going to be trimmed now.

You should definitely edit some of your wording down if you're interested in preserving the conversation- I'm not going to respond again if things get worse / similar because I don't think it was very conducive to the conversation and if not butting against the rules directly is like 1/100 an ilm from doing so..

Anyway, I don't think either were liars- and maybe it wasn't as prominently / main job Thief as you like but it definitely had Thief core concepts. Seraphor was quoting the devs, largely (though I'm sure they also saw the parallels in design so I wouldn't say exclusively), and the devs clearly intended to make Rogue look like Thief in everything but name (and maybe some mechanics you love but that happened to other jobs too, sometimes things don't translates well or well honestly.. the team just went a different direction lol).

You're also arguing the moral angle with someone that thinks it's silly, so I'm not sure if you knew that or not but I think morally being a Thief is better than being an assassin or a vigilante (both types of jobs we have in this game, given the context that all three are not out for evil at least and all three are 'capable' of killing I would then list Thief as more moral since they focus on acquiring assets over focusing on death and destruction to complete their goals - If I had an enemy I'd much rather have a hero thief coming after me than a hero assassin lol). I also question whether Yoshida actually said that or not because no one has been able to provide a source on what they're saying he said. He did say a city wouldn't want to advertise thieving and that makes sense, certainly, and given the nature of needing classes way back when it makes sense that they might think ehhhhyyy Thief (Rogue) -> Ninja might be cool? Anyway, morally I think is a bad argument especially given context of our other jobs, other FF games, and that you could easily paint the job as a robinhood sort of vibe (but better even)- naturally it would have to be a job and not a class though (cause again a city who is trying to turn over a new leaf isn't going to advertise thieving to the regular populace). So I think, at least so far, the moral argument is from the players and not Yoshida (until someone can provide a source), and the only source-able reason why they did what they did actually has some traction (wanted to honor the tradition of Thief - > Ninja, saw some vibes they could combine like Bard and Ranger, and felt while they follow their class system means putting it into a city so therefore they couldn't call it a Thief and have it fit so smoothly). Of course we don't care about the class system at all now lol.

I like anti-heros quite a bit and I think gray actions are way more fun than "I'm lawful good, everything I do is blessed by god", and honestly pretty happy with FFXIV in that regard, though I do hope for some more dark jobs (like Dark Knight). Anyway, I don't think we were ever clearly a villain, even if you might point out some skeptical things we did or were near/part of. At least so long as we are both understanding villain as evil. Using some dark magic doesn't mean you're evil, could be you're chaotic good / chaotic neutral- just to be clear if someone starts going "but but that's why you can't do X" lol.

[Krotoan]

both are liars,

also Thief is way superior to ninja

curious in what way? in the original FF theif upgraded to ninja.

also we can literaly fucking turn undead as drk ...

Undead aren't inherently evil. The latest boss we got being a WoL Necromancer.

next you don't need an entire table just let them steal items that the things naturally carry.

... that is a loot table.

also screw heros we have been villian like since arr end

how do you figure that? While our objective actions may not always seem good, we have been doing what we consider is right the entire time.

[LolitaBansheeMeru]

curious in what way? in the original FF theif upgraded to ninja.


Undead aren't inherently evil. The latest boss we got being a WoL Necromancer.


... that is a loot table.

how do you figure that? While our objective actions may not always seem good, we have been doing what we consider is right the entire time.

theifs aren't evil inherently either either and also because A: theif is superior because they aren't weeb for one... and 2 ya.. i could explan but that would take to much energy for me right.

and loot table already there...

Also is a big ronso upset at another being called a lier lol either way its the truth ...

also theiving for the greater good is a thing (also calls it edge or not but to hell with the right thing let us all be bad and leashed by sexy emet-selch

[Krotoan]

theifs aren't evil inherently either either and also because A: theif is superior because they aren't weeb for one... and 2 ya.. i could explan but that would take to much energy for me right.

and loot table already there...

Also is a big ronso upset at another being called a lier lol either way its the truth ...

also theiving for the greater good is a thing (also calls it edge or not but to hell with the right thing let us all be bad and leashed by sexy emet-selch

woah.. ok yeah that's a whole lot of "I'm not touching that". Cool talk.

[HeulGDarian]

also theiving for the greater good is a thing

In that case we got thief in the game, they are professionals as well, man i love playing the marketboard.
Come at me crafters xD. (just kidding btw im an omni-crafter)

[Berteaux_Braumegain]

Much like the original Final Fantasy, Ninja is just an upgraded Thief/Rogue in XIV. Granted, I wouldn't mind a skill that lets you steal items from enemies easier for material farming. One without a big cool down.

[LolitaBansheeMeru]

Much like the original Final Fantasy, Ninja is just an upgraded Thief/Rogue in XIV. Granted, I wouldn't mind a skill that lets you steal items from enemies easier for material farming. One without a big cool down.

never once have i used ninja I don't even use yuffie in ff7 , theifs i spam like crazy steal/luck chance/drops... Still lets face it ffxiv really screwed over every final fantasy job.. our signatures either have long cds are dont even exist for us .. making them pointless.. "pets" arent rlly what they should be.. honestly id rather play 1.0 by the videos of it atleast it looks like the jobs are really what they are suppose to be... instead knock off brands.

[Haruka_R]

I don't really have an interest to be a Thief though. And the whole Rouge=Thief=Evil shit is stupid. Better to be a Ninja.

[Seraphor]

Much like the original Final Fantasy, Ninja is just an upgraded Thief/Rogue in XIV. Granted, I wouldn't mind a skill that lets you steal items from enemies easier for material farming. One without a big cool down.

There was a suggestion a little while ago I liked, that base classes should have their own unique skills, that are lost when upgrading to the job. This would be something to give purpose of base classes as their own content, rather than it being a direct upgrade to the job.
It obviously wouldn't be enough for you to take a base class into current content over the job, but it could serve to make the early leveling process more interesting.

This would be a decent option for Rogue.
In the early game, where it's a little more relevant, you could use Steal to directly gain an item from an enemy without actually killing it. And it would serve as a farming tool for higher levels.

Other options could be giving Conjurer it's Knockback skill.
Thaumaturge could have Drain for better self sufficiency.
Marauder could have Berserk be an actual Berserk where you lose control for the duration but have higher speed and damage.
Archer could serve as a hunter/ranger and have a skill similar to Mug, so there's another option besides Rogue for farming items. Maybe it tags an enemy, and then when you kill it, it guarantees an item drop.
Pugilist and/or Gladiator could have a Revive skill.
Lancer... I'd probably do the reverse and just remove Piercing Talon from Dragoon while keeping it on Lancer. Maybe it would be an enmity generator or inflict Heavy to give it added utility.
Arcanist... probably do the same and remove Resurrection from Summoner tbh.