I am going to say something unpopular . . .

[MagicAura]

<<<Snipped>>>

In the end as others have said just vote kick the element one does not agree with. If it passes cool, if not leave. One should not be forced to endure something they do not enjoy no matter which side you fall on. That said I do not think people should use their role or the ease of an action to force people to do something they do not enjoy.

I get if I framed from the other side instead people might be more understanding as to what I am trying to say. I guess what I am trying to say my problems and limitations are my own and I do not expect others to understand nor even care since overall I am just a faceless stranger they probably do not care all that much about. Though I do not blame them because I also do not care much about people I do not personally know.

I believe in living in a way that treats others in a kind way, without expecting in return such kindness. I live with anxiety and a host of serious mental health issues. I care that i don't cause undue pressure on other people, especially strangers for whom i don't know their story. Caring is being kind to them. No one says be friends and like everyone. Just be considerate. A healer who can't deal with the added pressure of fast pulls, can easily go into an anxiety attack and worse. You know as well as i do that when in an anxiety attack, most of our normal thought processes stop working and depending on our personal circumstances we become different people. No one deserves that over 5 minutes extra of a dungeon run. When someone is bringing up anxiety, you don't know for sure if they are lying or they are serious about it. In my world, one should never risk it, because the disaster is only one step away. You kick someone, especially without a word, and you have no idea what will happen. How they will react. Will they see it with anger and bitterness? Have you ever considered why people react with anger? Will it be taken as a rejection, one rejection too many? Do you know for sure? Ultimately, is your conscience okay with hiding your head into the sand and singing la-la-la refusing to consider any of that?

I guess the answer is only known to you (and no that was a rhetorical question and i don't care for the answer to it). I'm still baffled as to why you made this thread but know that singing the "don't take it personally because i don't" song, is a cheap and narcissistic point of view that only considers you. And it's also pointless, once someone has been triggered. You know i hope what triggering is. It's the worse thing that can happen to people with mental health issues and can be deadly. My advice? Start seeing other people's views and treat them with kindness. Even if they never acknowledge it.

[ItMe]

My advice? Start seeing other people's views and treat them with kindness. Even if they never acknowledge it.

That's just good advice for, like, most people on this forum.

[Awha]

I believe in living in a way
that treats others in a kind way, without expecting in return such kindness. I live with anxiety and a host of serious mental health issues. I care that i don't cause undue pressure on other people, especially strangers for whom i don't know their story. Caring is being kind to them. No one says be friends and like everyone. Just be considerate. A healer who can't deal with the added pressure of fast pulls, can easily go into an anxiety attack and worse. You know as well as i do that when in an anxiety attack, most of our normal thought processes stop working and depending on our personal circumstances we become different people. No one deserves that over 5 minutes extra of a dungeon run. When someone is bringing up anxiety, you don't know for sure if they are lying or they are serious about it. In my world, one should never risk it, because the disaster is only one step away. You kick someone, especially without a word, and you have no idea what will happen. How they will react. Will they see it with anger and bitterness? Have you ever considered why people react with anger? Will it be taken as a rejection, one rejection too many? Do you know for sure? Ultimately, is your conscience okay with hiding your head into the sand and singing la-la-la refusing to consider any of that?

I guess the answer is only known to you (and no that was a rhetorical question and i don't care for the answer to it). I'm still baffled as to why you made this thread but know that singing the "don't take it personally because i don't" is a cheap and narcissistic point of view that only considers you. And it's also pointless, once someone has been triggered. You know i hope what triggering is. It's the worse thing that can happen to people with mental health issues and can be deadly. My advice? Start seeing other people's views and treat them with kindness. Even if they never acknowledge it.

I do agree consideration is key, from my side if I know I am not comfortable with something the group rather do I feel the considerate thing would be for me bail out. Truthfully I would rather get removed verse leaving since at that point I could requeue again and not have to eat the leave timer.

Sure a silent removal is annoying and at times painful coupled with confusing. I spent hours at one point asking people to look over my footage when I was removed from a group without reason once. By in large most people told me not to sweat it but I was obsessed to find the reason, I wanted to understand what I did wrong. It was Quran, I tried to meet the standards of the group. They wanted me to stun out each doom to prevent them and it took us four tries for me to get the timing right. Then on the second boss I did not know the boss ignored the aggro table and during that phase it was kind of hectic. I apologized since I assumed it was my fault and was promptly removed after we killed the boss. Only thing I had to go by was my own perceived screw ups since this was my first time running the dungeon.

Though in the end they were well within their right to remove me I was slowing them down even if mostly everything they told me about the second boss was incorrect and I probably was getting trolled by them.

So I do see why people react the way they do, but I also do not 100% understand it. If a group does not want to play with me, they should not have to. Am I really only considering myself with this train of thought? I do not think we should take it personally when people do not wish to play with someone or willfully accept blanket RNG as they way things should be. Not 100% certain if it is still valid but for many this largely boils down to a difference of play style, and at a time that was a valid reason for removal yet for some reason, I did it myself for a time when starting out and was pushed took it personally when removed feeling as if I did something wrong. Sometimes people just do nit mesh well, and that is okay. I think it is more selfish to place our own burdens on others because of the possible negative response we may have due to our own way of handling issues.

Idk for some reason it just does not sit well with me to think that people should be considerate as to what I may be going through behind the screen because I am unable to do something. By in large rather have the view that was removed because I did not mesh well instead of people walking on egg shells and trying to consider many different reasons as to why someone may not be able to do a certain thing.

[Arillyn]

Idk for some reason it just does not sit well with me to think that people should be considerate as to what I may be going through behind the screen because I am unable to do something. By in large rather have the view that was removed because I did not mesh well instead of people walking on egg shells and trying to consider many different reasons as to why someone may not be able to do a certain thing.

Then don't tell people if you have IRL issues that affect the way you play if you don't want to feel people are being considerate of that. But there is absolutely no reason to not be considerate of others or have others be considerate to you as the norm. Honestly, just being considerate should be the base norm for interactions with others, in-game or irl. I really don't understand what is so hard about that for society in general.

[ItMe]

Then don't tell people if you have IRL issues that affect the way you play if you don't want to feel people are being considerate of that. But there is absolutely no reason to not be considerate of others or have others be considerate to you as the norm. Honestly, just being considerate should be the base norm for interactions with others, in-game or irl. I really don't understand what is so hard about that for society in general.

HEARTY AGREEMENT!

[TheRealQuah]

I dunno why people are having such bad experiences.
I just never have any, even when someone in the group fails hard or is new I don't see people being toxic.
I play on the EU servers tho I dunno how it is in NA.

I've played on NA and EU, and the general competency in EU is MUCH higher than NA.

[Niervel]

Cats, it's a video game. Feels like this is a whole lot of jawin' over not much, dig?

If someone's harshin' my vibe and blamin' it on somethin' I ain't got the clairvoyance to vet, I'll just bounce out that whack crib and go on my way. Ain't no thing to do somethin' else for a minute.

I ain't got the authority make sure jive turkeys get their pad in order, but I more than got the power to vamoose. Ain't no use in antagonizin' folks with more excuses than they got years for their behavior or for their performance, 'less you're stuck with 'em in your circle. Best to just keep chasin' those good vibrations and give up the idea of gettin' the wider playerbase to step it up or to get over themselves.

[Melichoir]

Anxiety is not an excuse to place one needs above others, and being a new player is not a get out of responsibly card one can use at the drop of a hat...

If the issue is anxiety and worrying about your peers, shying away or using it to justify not doing something only will make that anxiety worse over time. You need to confront what makes you anxious and work to accept and be reasonable with it. This doesnt mean "Suck it up buttercup" and go all in right out the door. But it does mean pushing yourself, even a small bit, to just try and be open to it despite how you personally feel.

I speak from personal experience on this one.

You gotta put yourself out there sometimes and just do something, despite how it may turn out negatively. Roll with things, gradually push yourself further in increments, and youll eventually start to learn how to manage anxiety in the game, if not overcome it all together. Believe in yourselves and dont let set backs and failures ruin you.

[Awha]

Then don't tell people if you have IRL issues that affect the way you play if you don't want to feel people are being considerate of that. But there is absolutely no reason to not be considerate of others or have others be considerate to you as the norm. Honestly, just being considerate should be the base norm for interactions with others, in-game or irl. I really don't understand what is so hard about that for society in general.

Isn't the more considerate action between forcing people to do something they may not want to do or removing them from the group. Be removing them from the group?

[Arillyn]

Isn't the more considerate action between forcing people to do something they may not want to do or removing them from the group. Be removing them from the group?

Who is forcing someone to do something? If someone wants to run content they are there by choice. It isn't considerate to kick anyone from any party - DF or PF. Does it need to happen sometimes? Yes, it does (DF really rarely is it actually needed I've personally found, and PF there are usually specified conditions stated - before you join - that will prompt a removal from part). But it's never considerate.

And what do you mean forcing someone to do something they don't want to do? That just sounds controlling and cringey to me.

Edit: And if I'm understanding the intent of this thread from the start, it was calling out people (or a person) with anxiety. Which honestly is rude. I have anxiety and I can normally play the game just fine. When my anxiety is acting up I don't tend to play as well but it's not because of anything in the game. It's just a bad day I'm having and when that happens I either don't do certain content or I warn my friends if they still want me to come along in a pre-made party "Imma going to be messing up a lot - y'all might die". And sometimes I surprise myself at those times and I don't mess anything up. But everyone is different and I don't tell random people why I'm messing up (because honestly I just messed up for no reason in particular). I just say "I'm sorry, that was my fault" and I move on.