Why are people calling it “casualbringers” now?

[Valkyrie_Lenneth]

Everything has been dumbed down including crafting. So it’s only natural that other aspects of the game would eventually meet the same fate. SE just doesn’t seem to want this game to be difficult anymore.

SE: here's ultimate, very hard content for the game.

Players : they keep dumbing down the game!


Also, complexity for complexity sake isn't fun.

[Physic]

You said that, having removed enmity skills, it would now be nigh impossible for good tanks to distinguish themselves from bad tanks.

I then fully disagreed because, whatever the reason for the removal of enmity skills, a good tank will still be quite able to distinguish oneself from a bad tank.

i never said nigh impossible.

anyhow my overall point is dps probably shouldnt be the main focus of tank skill/job design. And in the video, he talks about removing some sub optimal tank mechanics, so that more focus can be given to dps mechanics. We dont have all the info yet, but i was honestly surprised it took this long to see a thread discussing that.

[Shurrikhan]

In the video, he talks about removing some sub optimal tank mechanics, so that more focus can be given to dps mechanics. We dont have all the info yet, but i was honestly surprised it took this long to see a thread discussing that.

So your main complaint is less the result than the trajectory of the changes? If so, fair enough.

Personally, I'm fine with that, so long as it means more impactful rotations. That's a fair bit more interesting that the stance-swapping (or, "-dropping", more often) we see now.

I'd have much preferred the emphasis move to active mitigation / defensive throughput, or a combination of that and damage throughput, but if they weren't willing to make something decent out of stances (which is itself pretty sad) then even this seems a modest improvement. I do not think it guts what it means to be a tank. It just went from plagued with haphazard vestigial elements to changing the focus to something they can hopefully better deal with.

[HyoMinPark]

SE: here's ultimate, very hard content for the game.

Players : they keep dumbing down the game!.

Hi, strawman.

EDIT: Posting limits

Personally, shouldn't you all wait for the embargo to lift and all the people who played the current changes to give their impressions before crying foul?

The only things I’ve mentioned in this thread are things the developers outright said in the PLL.

[Valkyrie_Lenneth]

Hi, strawman.

I tanked savage for coil and Alexander. 4.0 broke tanking for me, I've only rarely touched it since the expansion dropped. I am actually more excited for the tank changes than I thought I'd be, I never thought they'd make me want to tank again, yet here we are. What they seem to be doing is making it so spamming 1 combo (or flash) to hold hate won't cut it anymore. You could easily tank dungeons pressing 3 4 buttons before. Now it will actually require you to do work. Maybe not much more work, but more work.

If everyone is gonna pull strawman arguments on why the game is super easy now, then 1 more won't hurt any. All of the hyperbole over all the jobs being the same, the skill gap closing, game being made easier is all a bunch of nonsense based on some poorly translated live letter footage around a couple jobs. She admitted she struggled to translate it correctly.

Personally, shouldn't you all wait for the embargo to lift and all the people who played the current changes to give their impressions before crying foul?

[Jeeqbit]

Reducing job quests down to role quests is logical to save development resources. The alternative is hiring more people to work on them, but would those people understand the job and its lore the same way?

There is still the final job quest at L80 so we will still see some of the familiar characters, it's just they won't have to try and drag stories out that ended perfectly well, like having the previous antagonist you were supposed to have defeated return, or becoming a mentor to someone. They really were just dragging out stories that were meant to have ended. We want to see the familiar job characters again but they shouldn't feel pressured to come up with stories where there aren't any to tell.

As someone with all of the jobs leveled I still haven't got round to some of the job quests. Someone with all of the jobs leveled actually has 17 sets of job quests dumped on them and that's a lot to get through, which increases the case for this.

Jobs being easier to operate is important to reduce the skill disparity among the playerbase. How can they design challenging content when everything from skill to item level varies so significantly? They emphasised skill will still be involved, just obviously less.

A perfect example is a lot of tanks using tank stance all of the time, while others realised it doesn't matter and view themselves as a blue DPS. That creates a huge skill disparity and as much as the change hurts me as a tank main, I understand it and support it because the skill disparity among tanks is too large.

Bad players (at least for me) are the ones who are willingly too lazy to try and improve themselves whether through gear or skill when they know they are playing/geared worse than the content they are trying to do would allow

In my experience, most of these "bad players" are typically new/newer to the game or returners. They want to gear up but it's a work-in-progress. Their lack of skill is probably more to do with inexperience than having not taken the time to understand their job. There are a constant supply of sprouts and you encounter them in almost every roulette by design.

There are also the cases of people using alt jobs which they are worse-prepared for.

[Vaer]

i never said nigh impossible.

anyhow my overall point is dps probably shouldnt be the main focus of tank skill/job design. And in the video, he talks about removing some sub optimal tank mechanics, so that more focus can be given to dps mechanics. We dont have all the info yet, but i was honestly surprised it took this long to see a thread discussing that.

Generally it's the outgoing damage/tempo of the fight being low and the invuln cooldowns being a bit too good IMO that throws a wrench in mitigative mechanics or things like it. There's barely any damage. If you can actually tank the 2nd hardest content in the game currently while being in dps stance 98% of the time and using cooldowns with the healers also dpsing the majority of the time and not die the outgoing damage might be a bit low. Dungeons are cruise control at average gear levels.

They would have to either increase damage or nerf healing potencies for it to make a difference.

[Theodric]

Perhaps there would be more appetite for tougher content if it wasn't ridiculously hard to find a group for it? I don't know about anyone else, but I would love to get back into high end raiding - I simply cannot find a group or anyone willing to take me under their wing. It isn't for lack of trying, either.

The development team will continue to focus on the majority of players, so more 'casual' content is on the table for as long as the game lasts. The number of players interested in tackling high end content can increase, though, provided more players interested in it invest in training new blood. Very few do, though. I'm not saying they have an obligation too either...just that they shouldn't be surprised when their niche shrinks further and further over time.

[MirielleLavandre]

I think most people here on the forums (which is actually not even indicative of the true playerbase since I'd wager only those more invested in the game even peruse the forums) forget that the game is marketed mostly towards those very 'casuals' the OP's mention of "Casualbringers" points towards. If anything, they would not put in more 'gates' to keep players from progressing, especially for the MSQ. This can be seen in the release of the Trust system that would allow people to progress the MSQ even without others.

Japanese are, while a lil xenophobic (I'm JPN myself), usually into inclusion vs. exclusion, so I don't think you'll be seeing things that would make it harder for the biggest sector of the game's population - the 'casuals' - to progress. These changes or 'dumbing down' of the jobs were made, I think, to promote that very inclusiveness, as are the changes being made to make it so some jobs aren't outright neglected or looked down upon. Making most jobs of specific roles comparable and able to fulfill that role's spot is, again, making it so more people are able to play what they enjoy.

[Barraind]

To be fair, bad players will always be bad players whether a class is streamlined or not.

Eh, depends.

There was a full patch cycle in WoW where you could have never played a paladin before and facemash your way to within a small % of what the top players were doing, because every cooldown you had just lined up perfectly for 170 of every 180 seconds in a fight.

After months of ignoring QA testers and people who could math, that was fixed.

If yoshi-p gets ghostcrawler syndrome, it will be very, very bad for all of us.