Female Hrothgar as a playable race. Show your support!

[Renthas]

You can't really compare WoW with XIV in terms of content cycle, also this has already been stated as being a false analogy, it's like how people kept complaining we lost an ultimate because of BLU or Blitzball because of mahjong. It's just not true, content that the majority wants and plays like the 24 man or 8 man raids are already long in conceptualization and development WAAAY before we're shown anything, they won't be cancelled or pulled back because of a new race.

It's like saying the reason we lost a healer was because people begged for Blue mage, imagine the amount of content that was in development but cancelled for something else like hildebrand or feast, it's probably more than we'll ever known.

No, we did actually lose a raid tier in WoD, the Shattrath raid, because of garrisons and updated player models. There is literally a gravestone in the garrison with the inscription "Ray D. Tear" and there was a Brawler's Guild boss in Legion named Ray D. Tear "The Eighteenth" which used Hellfire Citadel boss mechanics.
https://wow.gamepedia.com/Ray_D._Tear check the Trivia section.

[Melichoir]

I'm gonna keep using this example to the death because it's the most apt one, but look at Warlords of Draenor for WoW. It looked awesome at first! Garrisons were cool, story so far was pretty alright! Raid tiers were great, too. I still think Blackrock Foundry is one of the best raids ever made in an MMO. After a while though, that illusion fell apart. Because of the garrison system, which was a player-requested system, the content in the rest of the expansion didn't exist. The only goal there was, was to just raid. That's it. There was nothing to do at all, besides just raid. Garrisons were an expensive part of the development process for WoD, and because people wanted it so badly, we lost content because of it. And it's considered WoW's 2nd worst expansion, just behind BFA. It's extremely likely we'd have a similar scenario if they worked to implement new genders mid-Shadowbringers, and I'm telling you now, those new genders would NOT make you like the expansion if it lacked everything else an MMO needs to be fun. Garrisons didn't make people like WoD (as a matter of fact people HATED garrisons after a short while), and Zandalari trolls (one of the most highly requested races in WoW, besides High Elves) didn't make people like BFA. So, as much as I want to play a female Hrothgar and want people to get male Viera, they need to take to the sidelines until the next expansion.

I think this is broadly a non argument. I would hazard most people agree with the idea that rushing out the missing genders asap would impact other facets of the xpac. Even if they were to rush, itd be 5.3 at the earliest we would likely see them. So there is no teeth to the "We expect it to happen this instant" argument, and not very many teeth for pushing the races to be released by 5.3ish. Thats more of a strawman at this point (and usually propped up by people pointing to an extreme few who made such irrational claims). Yeah, its most likely if we were to see them, itd be 6.0.

However, its worth noting that for them to be ready by 6.0, that means they will have to start developing them mid ShB, which then runs up into your point of taking resources away from other facets. And thats where the stickler is. No matter what the devs choose to do, it will take resources from some other project. So there's no real point in stating that implementing it mid ShB would be bad. Most people agree with that premise broadly (even if some do it begrudgingly). The point them becomes is it worth at all. Which I think people would most likely say yes to, if it was 6.0.

[Renthas]

I think this is broadly a non argument. I would hazard most people agree with the idea that rushing out the missing genders asap would impact other facets of the xpac. Even if they were to rush, itd be 5.3 at the earliest we would likely see them. So there is no teeth to the "We expect it to happen this instant" argument, and not very many teeth for pushing the races to be released by 5.3ish. Thats more of a strawman at this point (and usually propped up by people pointing to an extreme few who made such irrational claims). Yeah, its most likely if we were to see them, itd be 6.0.

However, its worth noting that for them to be ready by 6.0, that means they will have to start developing them mid ShB, which then runs up into your point of taking resources away from other facets. And thats where the stickler is. No matter what the devs choose to do, it will take resources from some other project. So there's no real point in stating that implementing it mid ShB would be bad. Most people agree with that premise broadly (even if some do it begrudgingly). The point them becomes is it worth at all. Which I think people would most likely say yes to, if it was 6.0.

Yeah, most of my argument is towards people wanting to see male Viera/female Hrothgar at 5.1 or something absurd like that. I guess I should've made that clearer? But yes, you are correct.

[MrKimper]

No, we did actually lose a raid tier in WoD, the Shattrath raid, because of garrisons and updated player models. There is literally a gravestone in the garrison with the inscription "Ray D. Tear" and there was a Brawler's Guild boss in Legion named Ray D. Tear "The Eighteenth" which used Hellfire Citadel boss mechanics.
https://wow.gamepedia.com/Ray_D._Tear check the Trivia section.

You're not reading what I'm saying, their content cycles are completely separate and we know for a fact they do things in pre-production and pre-planning so you can't make the comparison that because garrisons are equal to the races of ff xiv. They're totally seperate games.

[Renthas]

You're not reading what I'm saying, their content cycles are completely separate and we know for a fact they do things in pre-production and pre-planning so you can't make the comparison that because garrisons are equal to the races of ff xiv. They're totally seperate games.

Oh, ok. Sorry, I misread. What I meant, though, was that it was something highly player requested that ended up killing the content of the expansion, and to see the genders by 5.1 would have meant that they had started development /now,/ while stuff for later down the line in SHB (5.4, 5.5) would probably have a few corners cut.

[reivaxe]

Got interesting all of a sudden.

i dislike this logic. just because something is more popular doesnt mean you should ignore the other options. surely as a femroe you can see that.

As a Femroe I do NOT want another Femroe mishap. I play Femroe and love them ... but fact of the matter is that we're next to invisible because of how few of us there are (which is noticeable when the game only has so many races). SE missed the mark for both of the tall females, Elezen because of their proportions and animations and Femroe because of their body shape. I've played other MMOs where giant women are well represented though.

So yeah, just like with Buff Big Males I believe there to be an untapped population for Tall Women.

I still love that you're saying all that while on a fem Roe. That said.

Had a full reply to you but lost it. Will have to do that and other replies later.
But I WILL say ... what does me being a Femroe show? That I am one of the few who play Femroe? @_@

[Pixiehawk]

Nope.

This path gives people who want a Beastly race a Beastly race and it gives people who wanted Viera the Viera that have always been in the games.
Again, this is under the notion that this is It for additions. Either Viera would have been passed over again for good or we would never get a unique beastly race. This gives us both with the options that would be most popular.

There is nothing that makes me think very many people are up in arms about the monogenders.

I would love to play a beastly race on an alt. However being female is me. I've tried playing Male characters, but can't. They just move wrong. So I'm left out here.

[Pixiehawk]

So yeah, just like with Buff Big Males I believe there to be
But I WILL say ... what does me being a Femroe show? That I am one of the few who play Femroe? @_@

1.0 had no Femroes, or Catbois, or Female Highlanders. A campaign like this got them added in 2.0.

[reivaxe]

1.0 had no Femroes, or Catbois, or Female Highlanders. A campaign like this got them added in 2.0.

Yeah ... and?
If Femroe weren't added I'd play cat girl and wait for a tall race that I like (cause again, eww-2-elezen). It's not why I play this game.

And I feel what got them added is Yoshi wanting to do everything possible to save this game on the relaunch ... like he pointed out in the Happy interview.

Ignoring that many of the requests for the races included the missing genders much. Especially after Au Ra females turned out to be waifus, there was also request for more beastly females. We didn't get that. And the mystery that is male Viera remains a mystery.
"The people who wanted X" - there's more to that X than only what we got.

How can I possibly know how many people wanted something that was never in the games when asking for something that's already in the games? Like everyone's asking for burgers, some want sliders (feol) and some want double cheese burgers (Fran). So you give them burgers and a few people go "Hey, I wanted SHRIMP BURGERS with Kyle for buns!!!". Welp, that's not the type of burgers we've seen anywhere sooo ... should I have known that's why you raised your hand for burgers?

I use to sit in the Viera threads and most all the talk was about smoll vs tall so I can't ignore something I've never seen be a big topic at anytime.

As for Au Ra I was very disappointed with them because the guys are TALL and COOL and the females are NOT tall or cool.

There's the whole debate about between what we were given and what was missing (specifically the males) what would really be most popular but you and I have been through it enough times, I believe.

Still find it funny that you all think that lol

Confirmation bias. For me I can say that most people I know are upset over this in one way or another and some have gone from playing less already to unsubbing outright. Neither of us have the numbers, only our anecdotal experiences.

Confirmation bias implies that I'm searching for things that confirm my bias ... I really don't have a bias in this case. I've never been against them, thought they would be in but had no interest in them cause I don't play dudes ... (til Hrothgar that is)

Male Viera has never appeared in the games so there's not a centralized image or idea that people can point to. There for if you're a "Fan" of Viera you're a fan of female Viera first and foremost as far as I could see.
So how can we tell how many people really want them or care about this?

Viera's reveal vid on Youtube has 400k views. No one's making ranting vlogs about male Viera though.
FF instagram gets 11K hearts in a few days for a random image of a Viera head in CC. The Male Viera thread here gets ... 1.6k likes after a month.
Reddit is a large, active space for FF14. Any topic that's about male Viera or female Hrothgar gets down voted to the pits. Other forums I visit have long since stop bringing this up.
Read through the Viera male Thread and what do I find behind all the non-stop dog piling on views that don't match up with the desire for Viera males? I find the same <10 people pushing and spamming to "support" and bump the thread. Most posters are like the ones here, saying "Gah, genderlocking!/ I'd like to see that ..".
Go to the JPN side of this thread and find that they're thread on this is 26 pages long and has been inactive for a week.

No matter where I look I'm not finding that massive outrage people keep pointing at outside of a handfull of people trying to pass themselves off as an army.

Also this options will just not be the most popular.
A sexy handsome male bunny will sell 50 times more fantasia

1- Why would you think bunny ear male elezen would be "50 times" more popular than anything in this game?
2- Why would you think that a new race is made for profits? The only direct means to count the profits from a new race is $10 potions ... over 2 years of work that makes everything in the game harder to make moving forward for how many people to buy a $10 item? If races were profitable they wouldn't be telling us this is the end of new races. This is purely to please fans by giving them more options to express themselves.

Again this logic doesn't work because going by player data, Miqo'te and Lalafell are some of the most played raced. If they REALLY wanted to go with what would be objectively popular, releasing another cute race would be better by that logic. That's even discounting that miqo'te male gets played more than roe's and is one of the top played male races, if we're going based simply on actual census and not just opinion really.

Popular request.

Beastly races was a popular request.
Viera were a popular request.
Viera are only ever shown as female and Males toon players are more open to things that deviate from the norm.

How are you not getting that?

Hrothgar was done because they wanted to diversify typing's and what the developers wanted to begin with, it honestly has nothing to do with popularity or pleasing both sides. It's the same thing as BLU and Eureka's implementation it was mostly what Yoshida or someone on the development team felt fit their vision better.

I should trust you over what I've seen and what the devs said?

I use to be all about that Viera support life ... and I was right there, shouting down people who brang up beast looking races. This is a legit popular request that people shot down often, if it wasn't a request for Viera it was beastly races. I felt like I KNEW Viera would get in because there's no way SE would make a beastly looking race and that's all I saw asked for.

Either way we'll just get the missing genders in 6.0 more than likely all things considered so there's no point in harping on people who want them.

I really don't think so.

What will happen is the BM will release and people will hang out in the "Show your" threads as well as talk about new skills for jobs shown. Then ShB will release and everyone will have more pressing matters to talk about. Outside of an odd interview here or there they prob wont get asked about feedback and never bother confirming any stance on it unless to tell us they can't handle the added strain.

[FoxyAreku]

I'm gonna keep using this example to the death because it's the most apt one, but look at Warlords of Draenor for WoW. It looked awesome at first! Garrisons were cool, story so far was pretty alright! Raid tiers were great, too. I still think Blackrock Foundry is one of the best raids ever made in an MMO. After a while though, that illusion fell apart. Because of the garrison system, which was a player-requested system, the content in the rest of the expansion didn't exist. The only goal there was, was to just raid. That's it. There was nothing to do at all, besides just raid. Garrisons were an expensive part of the development process for WoD, and because people wanted it so badly, we lost content because of it. And it's considered WoW's 2nd worst expansion, just behind BFA. It's extremely likely we'd have a similar scenario if they worked to implement new genders mid-Shadowbringers, and I'm telling you now, those new genders would NOT make you like the expansion if it lacked everything else an MMO needs to be fun. Garrisons didn't make people like WoD (as a matter of fact people HATED garrisons after a short while), and Zandalari trolls (one of the most highly requested races in WoW, besides High Elves) didn't make people like BFA. So, as much as I want to play a female Hrothgar and want people to get male Viera, they need to take to the sidelines until the next expansion.

Not like we're gonna lose content for it.

Though honestly, I would gladly give up another eureka or blue mage for another race. There's been so much bad content lately that is basically dead on arrival, but races are always forever lasting.