I don't know why so many people give BA premades trash for claiming instances.

[TheLittlestLala]

If there were no premades, thier behavior would be the same.

Ok let's be real; no they wouldn't. Not on the western servers. They wouldn't be bothering at all.

The whole reason the discord exists is because of how awful the pugging culture on the western servers is.

Go ahead and use duty finder for current savage content and tell me how long it takes to get in. I'll be waiting.

[Physic]

clipped

Let's not kid ourselves, the reality is that the vast majority of these snipers are only interested in BA if there's a chance they can clear it, hence why BA is dead outside of premades (heck, I wouldn't have touched BA with a hundred foot pole if it wasn't for the amazing system the discord has set up). Half of these snipers wouldn't even be setting foot into BA period if the content was pure impossible to premade; I can guarantee the vast majority of them aren't sniping to "simply participate". Think of it another way, why do you think people lie about their experience in primal/savage runs in PF? People naturally enjoy better odds of succeeding at things. A fully cleared party except you increases the odds you can be dragged to a clear drastically; just as a BA premade massively increases your odds of clearing infinitely times more than any truly non-discord PUG BA ever could.

your point is what exactly?


when people see that there are enough people who want to try to play basketball they will try to play basketball, and when no one is around trying to play basketball they wont play.


I am not claiming it is coincidence, yes, these people really want a run to be going on so they can attempt to get in that run and do the content. That is self evident. The same exact thing is true of the majority of the people in the discord queued up for a run. The vast majority of the people in eureka are not leaders who feel comfortable gathering people to their will, they are people who just want a chance to do the content.


Since Discord requires most people to spend their time outside the instance queing or server hopping the majority of the population that wants to do BA is not in a channel to participate.


Also, your claims about people would only go for clears, is kinda bull, since people snipe and try to get in on fragment runs as well, and most snipers wouldnt know which is which. Regardless attempting to get in on a successfull run is the same thing everyone is trying to do, so i dont really see why you think you are any different than a "sniper" in that respect. Discord BA specifically try to stack parties with people with a high chance of victory, and filter low chance of victory players down to fragment/progression runs.


look its the human hustle, everyone is going to try to play to their strengths to get the best outcomes, on their terms, thats fine. People who have a tendency towards organization and gathering premades want to circumvent the game mechanics that stop them from using their best strengths, people who are bold, and dont give a F, want to make it about "first pulling" a portal. People who want to follow, just want any means by which they can make an attempt.


Thats fine, the thing that irks me is this fake riteous outrage that one is somehow better than the other, that discord is the "right" way, and portal hunting is a foul tactic, when in all honesty, portal hunters are closer to the actual intent of the content.


All the discord beef could be resolved with the ingame tool of aether stabilizers. but who wants to farm 100 of each crystal when they can shame people into submission?

[Physic]

Ok let's be real; no they wouldn't. Not on the western servers. They wouldn't be bothering at all.

The whole reason the discord exists is because of how awful the pugging culture on the western servers is.

Go ahead and use duty finder for current savage content and tell me how long it takes to get in. I'll be waiting.

People would learn, because some would teach. Look, i have seen this happen in North american games. I cannot believe that people are incapable of playing the game. There are mechanics on most of the fates in eureka, and inevitably, most people learn it. Because BA involves some loss, and set up time, people will learn.


the same people in the discord now, would be the same "pugs" you are talking about. the vast majority of people in discord are not leaders, they are just players following instructions. if you do BA 10 times, you will basically know the fights. its not rocket science, its not savage difficulty.



no one i know who does it consistently thinks its savage difficulty, or that its particularly hard. yeah there is a learning curve, but everyone will learn it eventually, if they keep playing it.



If you can do the shark fate outside without dying you possess the physical charachteristics to clear BA. you just need to learn and practice the mechanics.

[TheLittlestLala]

Since Discord requires most people to spend their time outside the instance queing or server hopping the majority of the population that wants to do BA is not in a channel to participate.

Congratulations, you just described exactly why people hate snipers so much.

Imagine you spent hours getting people together into a single instance to make a BA party even a possible thing on these servers only for some guy who didn't spend an ounce of time and probably won't use any more than a remembrance and platebearers sees that a premade is there and now is his chance for fragments and maybe a free carry decides to take your portal right from under you.

This guy could put the effort in that you do and join the discord but that would be too much work. He wants to get in now at the expense of the people who gave him this opportunity in the first place.

[Physic]

Congratulations, you just described exactly why people hate snipers so much.

Imagine you spent hours getting people together into a single instance to make a BA party even a possible thing on these servers only for some guy who didn't spend an ounce of time and probably won't use any more than a remembrance and platebearers sees that a premade is there and now is his chance for fragments and maybe a free carry decides to take your portal right from under you.

This guy could put the effort in that you do and join the discord but that would be too much work. He wants to get in now at the expense of the people who gave him this opportunity in the first place.

it aint your portal.


heres what happened, people who are good at organizing and leading people created a hierarchy by which you can spend 1-4 hours waiting for them to allow you to do a BA attempt.



this is not by game design, you are not supposed to be waiting 1-4 hours, and trying to get into one instance. The content does not require it in order to succeed. If the same number of players was in game instead of waiting, they could attempt BA 1-3 times in the same time they were waiting in discord and kugane and server hopping.
as people learned the mechanics, and got better at instructing people and leading, roughly 1/3rd of the attempts would succeed.


this means in the same time frame, you would get more fragments and a similar amount of successes.


how do i know this? because this is what happens in japan when they play with that paradigm. Because in guild wars within a month of the new World Event, people are beating it more than half the time, within two months, its usually on farm. People are not incapable of learning. I'm sorry I dont believe the entire culture of NA FFXIV players is less intelligent than the average player in any other game.


basically the point is discordians created a system that sucks for many players, that sufferring which is self inflicted, does not justify being jerks to people who play as intended. The content is designed to be equally open to any player who is around when the run happens, organized or not. The design team went out of their way to make this the case. They didnt want this to be an elite structured event that only a few

people in certain circles can participate in.

Discord didn't create this situation, people not pugging did. At some point BA runs just stopped happening. I would know, I remember it being impossible to get any more than maybe 12 people to agree to try a BA run and then the group would swiftly fall apart after about half an hour of it looking clear that nothing was gonna happen. Repeat ad nauseam.

Once the discord runs started happening I was actually able to do BA again.

discord became defacto pretty early in the cycle, probably within 1-2 weeks And in the early days, there was not as many level 60 players, now there is many

[TheLittlestLala]

it aint your portal.


heres what happened, people who are good at organizing and leading people created a hierarchy by which you can spend 1-4 hours waiting for them to allow you to do a BA attempt.



this is not by game design, you are not supposed to be waiting 1-4 hours, and trying to get into one instance. The content does not require it in order to succeed. If the same number of players was in game instead of waiting, they could attempt BA 1-3 times in the same time they were waiting in discord and kugane and server hopping.
as people learned the mechanics, and got better at instructing people and leading, roughly 1/3rd of the attempts would succeed.


this means in the same time frame, you would get more fragments and a similar amount of successes.


how do i know this? because this is what happens in japan when they play with that paradigm. Because in guild wars within a month of the new World Event, people are beating it more than half the time, within two months, its usually on farm. People are not incapable of learning. I'm sorry I dont believe the entire culture of NA FFXIV players is less intelligent than the average player in any other game.


basically the point is discordians created a system that sucks for many players, that sufferring which is self inflicted, does not justify being jerks to people who play as intended. The content is designed to be equally open to any player who is around when the run happens, organized or not. The design team went out of their way to make this the case. They didnt want this to be an elite structured event that only a few people in certain circles can participate in.

Discord didn't create this situation, people not pugging did. At some point BA runs just stopped happening. I would know, I remember it being impossible to get any more than maybe 12 people to agree to try a BA run and then the group would swiftly fall apart after about half an hour of it looking clear that nothing was gonna happen. Repeat ad nauseam.

Once the discord runs started happening I was actually able to do BA again.

[Niqote]

it aint your portal.

You are right, it's not.
But there is a cycle of disrespect that begins with someone who ''snipes'' a portal. If there is a premade group and you can see them shouting and organising; then its up to you to decide to respect them and not ''snipe'' a portal that by all rights belongs to no one. It's up to you to decide that you value their grouped and organised success over your own curiosity (first timers) or selfishness (you are looking for a carry or purposely don't have the logograms you should).

It's also about the culture of the instance and what is seen as acceptable or not and of course this varies based on the players, unfortunately particular players prove themselves to be concerned only about how they want to play rather then doing their best and being prepared for the sake of everyone's clear (eg. when people verbally abuse others for not attempting to raise them in a death before AV). And thus (On the subject of ''sniping'') we have a clash which ends in multiple people disrespecting each other that began when someone was under prepared or ''took'' a 6th Tanks portal, thus dooming the otherwise promising run.

Over all I hate that there is no pre-made queuing system (raid finder), because this content will die faster as its so hard to find and talk with like minded people let alone have a volume of people who can even do the FATE for you. I guess that's why they made a Discord.

[Lacan]

Discord didn't create this situation, people not pugging did. At some point BA runs just stopped happening. I would know, I remember it being impossible to get any more than maybe 12 people to agree to try a BA run and then the group would swiftly fall apart after about half an hour of it looking clear that nothing was gonna happen. Repeat ad nauseam.

Once the discord runs started happening I was actually able to do BA again.

Yea, the problem is that the way SE designed this content isn't clicking with the NA playerbase at all. I don't know if it is a cultural thing or what, but for whatever reason we're not apt to PUG content like this. The discord came about because there was a demand for it.

[Satarn]

Here's a simple analogy for those who don't understand why it's kinda shitty to snipe portals when you have no intention of running BA without a premade present:

You share an apartament with a roommate and you get provided with enough food to get by together. You propose the both of you will prepare and share a dinner. The roommate refuses, because he would rather play video games instead of spending time on cooking. You shrug and make the dinner for yourself, using some of the provided ingredients and then go use the bathroom. Once you get back into the kitchen, you see the roommate has already claimed your meal, leaving nothing for you and once confronted says "it was made with shared ingredients so I have just as much right to eat it". Technically true, but it doesn't make roommate any less of an asshat.

[Nixxe]

Yea, the problem is that the way SE designed this content isn't clicking with the NA playerbase at all. I don't know if it is a cultural thing or what, but for whatever reason we're not apt to PUG content like this. The discord came about because there was a demand for it.

The Discord groups are still pugs, even if they aren't formed inside of the instance.