Social-Politicals, Economic Order, and City-States: Politics in Eorzea

[Mysterysword]

I did suspect when you mentioned your family sailed south from China to a British colony, but with this... fellow Singaporean?

Hello!

It's easy to miss, but a major factor in the 2.55 fallout was that Nanamo was going to tear down the entire government, making it a desperate time for the Syndicate. And desperate times call for desperate measures, so Lolorito and Teledji played all their cards to make sure that didn't happen.

It's an interesting thought exercise to write a fanfic that includes a wealthy, influential Royalist on the Syndicate. What would an Ul'dah with a mega-rich Royalist look like?

Anyway, God's first appearance in the MSQ was the scene in which the Syndicate voted to allow the Doman refugees entry into Ul'dah. Curiously enough, he voted against them, although given that he was wearing an entire hooded robe, maybe he just didn't care.

Outside of the MSQ, there's a level 30s sidequest involving him at Camp Bronze Lake, which I remember because it almost seems like his natural environment, until you see him elsewhere.

[Ametrine]

I understoon the Bronze Lake quests were initially added to reference the 1.0 Hildy quests, in which Godbert was still in mourning over losing his son during the Calamity. (Our helping him get out of this funk is why he gifts us a Meteor Survivor Ring, as it has a good deal of symbolism for the old man.) Also, there is simply nothing in the game that indicates Godbert is a Royalist, nor that being a monetarist=evil, avarice fueled monster as we've seen with Taleji.

Though, the only other Monetarist we've spoken to is Dewlala, leader of the Church of Nald'Thal, which, as a religious order, puts intense importancy on personal wealth and incredibly high tithes. We don't even know if she's on the Syndicate as a representative of Nald'Thal the holy body, or if her personal wealth as the church's leader gives her enough money to qualify.

But, she was absolutely in cahoots with Lolorito in regards to halting Nanamo's plan to force complete governmental reform. Her being the city's major religious leader puts her in an odd position, as she could rightly argue her siding with keeping the status quo was to prevent unneeded suffering to the masses. I'll need to rewatch the cutscenes from that point in the story, but I do remember she almost chastised the WoL in the scene.

Back to Godbert, he does employ hundreds of people from all corners and walks of life, and he donates a few million to the Starlight Festivals. So it's really impossible to know yet if his choice to bar the Domans was a Monetarist power play or him being so uninvested, he just walled put when everyone else did.

[VargasVermillion]

One thing I got from the storylines relating to garlean provinces is that they are largely expected to be self sufficient and will only gain actual assistance from the government if the location is useful for one reason or another (I heard that Doma was a tourist destination before the failed rebellion due to their 'outlandish culture') or if people who inhabit the settlements earn their keep. In the opposite example the ala mhigan locations were very poor, both due to the lack of resources that interest the empire and because it's right on the border of an enemy territory. Not quite sure about merchants but none of the ala mhigan ones were happy, I'm guessing they just had to give up a lot of their goods to the army on request.

It was recently mentioned in a lore panel that Garlemald sells it's earlier magitek advancements to other states to fund their military campaigns (hence the consulate in Kugane). This got me wondering if the machina in kugane castle may of been based on garlean designs.

[YianKutku]

Though, the only other Monetarist we've spoken to is Dewlala, leader of the Church of Nald'Thal, which, as a religious order, puts intense importancy on personal wealth and incredibly high tithes. We don't even know if she's on the Syndicate as a representative of Nald'Thal the holy body, or if her personal wealth as the church's leader gives her enough money to qualify.

Dewlala is Neutral. From the lorebook, she "walks a narrow path between the Monetarists and the Royalists", and the Order of Nald'Thal in general "maintains a position of neutrality in public". Historically the Order is Royalist in that they aid the royal family, but after the rise of the Monetarists, they also help the Monetarists amend the code of law.

Practically, this means she plays politics by helping one or the other as she sees fit, but does not align herself with either Royalist or Monetarist factions.

I've always put Godbert in the Neutral faction as well, but more out of disinterest than deliberate decision. I don't think there's any explicit evidence that Godbert is indeed Neutral, as opposed to a very apathetic Monetarist. (He can't be a Royalist, since the lorebook states Raubahn is the only one.) However, since there is no mention of Godbert's affiliation in his profile, while Fyrgeiss is stated to be a Monetarist despite being equally invisible in Syndicate business, I think it is *strongly suggestive* that Godbert is indeed Neutral.

[Ametrine]

Thank you for the clarification!

[Mysterysword]

In the interest of crunching population numbers, I tried to do Ul'dah's by figuring out an appropriate military to population ratio, but there are too many factors influencing this ratio for me to consider them all. Not least of which is the fact that the Calamity presumably depopulated Eorzea pretty hard, and so the number of able-bodied people (men and women serve in the military equally, it seems, another thing to consider) is much lower than it would be sans Calamity. I'll let someone else tackle this question.

But I can, at least, try to figure out the population of the Garlean Empire! The lorebook states that each legion of the Garlean Army is roughly 6000 soldiers strong. With 14 legions (let's just count the ones that were decimated or destroyed throughout the story so far), that's 84000 soldiers. The lorebook also states that this is not an absolute number, due to soldier rotation, so let's just make that a nice 80000 for convenience.

Now the tricky part: Figuring out a proper ratio of military : total population. On Earth, North Korea is the most militarised country in the world. In 2005, their military : total population ratio was roughly 57 : 1000. Applying that to the Empire, from an army of 80000, we get a total population of 1, 403, 508 and some change. Admittedly, that doesn't include the army itself, so adding that in makes it 1.5 million.

Dissatisfied with that answer, I went on to look for some more ratios, particularly those from medieval times. Some very lazy Googling later, I found a rough guess of 1 soldier : 15 citizens. This equates to about 66 : 1000. Applying that to the Empire, we get a population of 1, 200, 000. Add in the military to get 1.28 million.

But we have to remember the fact that the Garlean Empire is heavily militarised. Let's just go ham. Let's assume that they have higher ratios than we've ever seen on Earth. Let me just assume a still-rather-conservative ratio of 80 : 1000. That means the Garlean Empire has 1, 000, 000 civilian citizens.

The total population of Europe in the 14th century, before the Black Death wrecked it, is estimated to have been somewhere between 100mil to 150mil.

Welp. I dunno. I suppose this may have been a futile endeavor from the start, but if I have to math, I'm posting the results, dammit!

P. S: Also, Google tells me that the population of the Roman Empire, in 25 BCE, was 56 million. So yeah, there's that.

[Raqrie_Tohka]

The lorebook states that each legion of the Garlean Army is roughly 6000 soldiers strong.

But we have to remember the fact that the Garlean Empire is heavily militarised. Let's just go ham. Let's assume that they have higher ratios than we've ever seen on Earth. Let me just assume a still-rather-conservative ratio of 80 : 1000. That means the Garlean Empire has 1, 000, 000 civilian citizens.

The total population of Europe in the 14th century, before the Black Death wrecked it, is estimated to have been somewhere between 100mil to 150mil.

Interesting, but I wouldn't assume the soldier-count for a legion includes all the engineers, technicians, facility operators, scribes, messengers, non-combat logistic-divisions, immobile garrison-only divisions, reserves and in-training, on-leave non-active personnel, pilots, military police, researchers and scientists, drafted skilled-civilian accompaniment (almost akin to slaves, they may help set up base, provide amenities, be drafted to rush production in ad-hoc factories, or just follow along as a whole family, understandable for very long range military incursions where they set up semi-permanent bases).

Etc, these may all be assigned to a certain legion, yet they will not count as actual "legion strength". The 6000 "legion strength" probably covers only offensive-ready footsoldiers. For non combat-ready personnel, just the on-leave (but battle-ready in a pinch) personnel in rotation, could account for almost a 3rd of all active soldiers. So my estimate of a legion population, taking in account all auxiliary personnel, could be up to 3-5 times the actual "legion strength" of 6000 people. Could be up to 10 times or more if we account for the skilled civilian accompaniment too. Not to mention the Garleans make heavy use of mechanical droids and machina to bolster their strength, up to 5 magitek and logic-capable war-machines for each 1 biological soldier. The servicemen and technicians for these droids will need to be counted separate from the engineers and technicians responsible for bases and general equipment as well.

So if it was me, I would raise the 1 mil total population estimate to something between 10-20 mil. And Quintuple the assumed strength of a legion. Then add double, or even triple that amount of mechanical fighter counterparts to the biological strength. Not counting airship fleets, bombers, and mobile special task forces not assigned to "legions" (probably under direct command from central).

So now you could see how one legion could almost conquer Eorzea single-handedly. Especially considering the replacement speed of mechanical fighters may be incredibly swift compared to refilling the ranks with biological fighters. Unless I am severely mistaken about the skilled-civilian accompaniment theory. I had always assumed there were whole frontier-cities filled with skilled technicians, suppliers, workers, and relatives of frontline soldiers, to support the actual fighting legion, churning out non-stop industry so the soldiers would never lack equipment and supplies (which in-game, we always see them well-dressed and well-armed).

The argument for industrial frontier-cities is also the economic side of war and conquest; the Garleans actively make use of, extract and gather up the resources of lands they are currently in conquest. Large scale organized extraction and refining of resources to ship back to the capital, or used to turn into more equipment for the war on the spot. Invaders worth their salt generally don't leave fertile lands pristine, and natural resources untouched. Perhaps they'll even adopt a "scorched earth" policy when they (inevitably) retreat from Eorzeans retaking the land. Idk if our game has place for such dark things. But I will be severely disappointed if the Garleans don't respond, en mass, to our little Ala Mhigo revolution and killing of the crown prince. Hope the writers are up to the task. (If it was me, I'd bomb all of Ala Mhigo, then hit the heart of Eorzea with 3 full legions plus a special task force. Target the cities with bombing too. Personally send a high-ranking commander usually reserved in the capital, just to avenge the prince. Thankfully, I don't get to decide, though.)

[LineageRazor]

The argument for industrial frontier-cities is also the economic side of war and conquest; the Garleans actively make use of, extract and gather up the resources of lands they are currently in conquest. Large scale organized extraction and refining of resources to ship back to the capital, or used to turn into more equipment for the war on the spot. Invaders worth their salt generally don't leave fertile lands pristine, and natural resources untouched. Perhaps they'll even adopt a "scorched earth" policy when they (inevitably) retreat from Eorzeans retaking the land. Idk if our game has place for such dark things. But I will be severely disappointed if the Garleans don't respond, en mass, to our little Ala Mhigo revolution and killing of the crown prince. Hope the writers are up to the task. (If it was me, I'd bomb all of Ala Mhigo, then hit the heart of Eorzea with 3 full legions plus a special task force. Target the cities with bombing too. Personally send a high-ranking commander usually reserved in the capital, just to avenge the prince. Thankfully, I don't get to decide, though.)

As appropriate as this might be, sadly I'm pretty certain that Varis's cold dismissal of the death of his son is going to be SE's method of handwaving why the Garleans DON'T respond to this affront in force. It's honestly not a very good handwave, as Varis's personal feelings on the matter really shouldn't be all that relevant; what matters is that a direct challenge was offered against the Garlean Empire like none previously. Two of its territories were liberated, and the son of their leader was killed. Even if Varis doesn't care about the latter, for the Empire not to respond with overwhelming force runs the risk of allowing the Empire to appear vulnerable, emboldening other nations (both conquered and not) to stand against them.

[Mysterysword]

As appropriate as this might be, sadly I'm pretty certain that Varis's cold dismissal of the death of his son is going to be SE's method of handwaving why the Garleans DON'T respond to this affront in force.

Alternatively, 4.1-4.5 will feature the Empire being too distracted by something else. Maybe this double defeat has scared its citizens, sparking another round of civil unrest and causing them to doubt Varis' right to rule.