Who is the WoL's Equal?

[Quor]

For non-martial prowess, Lolorito demonstrably screwed us over and got away with it. Then he made a point to give us a support structure in Kugane just to mess with our heads. The only time we got the better of Lolorito was in culinary accomplishments.

Ah yes, the great Chefsbane. But we still beat him. And on the only true battlefield that matters; the culinary one.

But otherwise I have to agree with you. I think Raubahn in his prime would have beaten anyone but the level 70 WoL.

The plot needs to allow for some characters or monsters to be written in such a way that they simply cannot be defeated by the Warrior of Light and thus some other method of dealing with them arises such as striking up a bargain or convincing them to temporarily align themselves for the sake of a greater cause.

I think Alexander kinda fits this bill. We won because he created a series of stable time loops that allowed us to win, and we won only because his capacity to explore the infinite permutations of possible realities showed him that any future that did not have us winning was a future in which the world would eventually end due to Alex's overuse of aether draining everything dry. Sure, we technically "defeat" him, but it's more of a testing to see if we're worth letting out of the time loop imo. If we beat him (and we do) then he accepts defeat and retreats to his little looping pocket reality while we progress forward. If we don't then I like to think he "resets" starting way back when with the Hotgo and going on until the stage is set for us to try again. It's very "Type-0" in that regard I guess.

[Valenth]

The thing about power is that it's usually not a straight line or a pyramid, with one on top. If you'll allow me, think of it like Pokemon, when you select your starter there is one it's stronger against and one it's technically weaker against. The same applies probably to the WoL, he's stronger than a lot of people who are stronger than other people that happen to be more capable than the WoL, coming full circle (or triangle if you like your shapes more angular xP).

I wouldn't be surprised if the story will go in one way were the WoL through their actions create a foe that's stronger than them by going through the circle. Perhaps this has already happened with what Zenos exactly was supposed to be. As mentioned before in the thread Zenos basically destroyed the circle (or triangle) by fusing with the Primal which he considered (physically) stronger than himself but essentially making himself susceptible to being defeated by the Blessing of Light. Zenos > WoL > Eikons/Primals > Zenos > rinse and repeat, became WoL > Zenos/Primal/Eikon.

I'm sure his father Varis will not be making the same mistake in order to stay indirectly equal to the WoL, or at least keep them off bay or manipulable by keeping the circle intact. I think he understands there are people more powerful than him, the really good rulers always do, good meaning efficient here with 'the enemy of my enemy is my friend' applying really well. That is why I agree when people say they think the story will go towards the WoL and Garlemand working together at some point to defeat a common enemy, a bigger threat in the form of Zodiark probably. Varis assisting (read: manipulate) the WoL because the WoL will probably defeat him. If Varis then has a moment of stupidity and thinking everything is over he'll try to get rid of the WoL, trying to break the circle. Good bad guys keep the good guys around to keep the really bad guys in check that could beat the good bad guys! That sounded better in my head...

Anyway, storytelling like this is so nice because everything is a circle. You can keep expanding the circle, but there is no end or beginning. Sure there's entry and exit points where we, the players, jump into this circle, but it will always continue. There always is the next element that can be added.

Edit tl;dr - There is no one who's stronger than everyone.

[Alleo]

I think it could be a pretty effective story element.

Well I would be fine if its because we put our attention down when we thought that it would be over and we would be attacked after that. In a way we already did underestimate Zenos and payed the price (twice). And we already had do run away from normal soldiers thanks to missing our weapons (which is still strange if you are a monk <_<). And if it was not for Alisaie, that one soldier would have hurt us too while we were in a echo version. And lets not forget that we lost a good friend thanks to us not noticing that incoming spear. So we already were in quite dangerous positions over the time. Having even more would just feel a bit off for me after a bit.

And I cant just see how the WoL would underestimate someone in a soldier outfit. Maybe if they are disguised as a harmless maid or boy and act weak but could we truly blame the WoL if they tricked by something like that?

Maybe its just me but I see nothing wrong in being confident with your fighting skill. I mean people work hard for being that good so why should they stay really humble about it? And its not like they go around and boast about this. A lot of job quests show the WoL as quite the nice person, that sometimes even teach someone else. I do get the feeling that Alisaie is a bit too overconfident sometimes but I never truly got that feeling from the WoL.

[Ametrine]

Snip

But they've already done this, too? The WoL shows multiple signs of PTSD in regards to other people preparing their drinks after Nanamo and the Falcon's Nest riot, and, while not against the WoL, they have attempted a sudden assassination storyline when Aymeric got randomly stabbed in the chest by a passerby.

The only thing about Zenos is that he very much was meant to be our equal. Between his formal training as a Garlean royal, blood knight personality, and position to sit on the frontlines to fight more and more powerful enemies, he had every opportunity to train beyond the normal limits. Then, you add the Resonant experiments to give him his own flavor of powerful Echo, and he took our advantage away.

But, as stated here, his choosing to fuse with Shinryu was what did himself in. The WoL's whole shtick is that they slay primals, so becoming a primal, most powerful yet or not, gave us back the advantage.

I also have to wonder if Zenos's implied fondness for the WoL at the end there did anything towards his potential, though I doubt the story will delve into that at all beyond making the player think.

[The_NPC]

they could give us the FF7: Crisis core ending treatment, u can fight & dodge as long as u want/can until u lose (ie: infinite waves of "threatening" adds till u drop) it would technicly be a "forced loss" but be one you can play the "How long can you last" game (& would make a fun intance to re-fight, rewards be damned as long as u get a "total time alive" clock... actually a fight like this would make a good PvE arena challange mode).

Also did we actually kill that mad scientist in the lv70 Ahl Mhingo dungeon, if not then he has A LOT of data about the WoL as he literally forced us out of our body

[AdamuKun322]

they could give us the FF7: Crisis core ending treatment, u can fight & dodge as long as u want/can until u lose (ie: infinite waves of "threatening" adds till u drop) it would technicly be a "forced loss" but be one you can play the "How long can you last" game (& would make a fun intance to re-fight, rewards be damned as long as u get a "total time alive" clock... actually a fight like this would make a good PvE arena challange mode).

Also did we actually kill that mad scientist in the lv70 Ahl Mhingo dungeon, if not then he has A LOT of data about the WoL as he literally forced us out of our body

That fight was amazing.

[Sunspawn]

I'd say a lot of folks are the WoL's near-equal. The Echo/Blessing of Light only works to bring various supernatural threats down to normal(Primals etc), so in terms of skill there are plenty of folks who gave the PC a good run for his money, often in Job quests and the like.

[jack891]

you have to remember that you are the warrior of light and in your story, party members are just adventurers so in essence every piece of current content that requires a group is much too strong for the warrior of light

[Clawbriar]

Nobody is equal to the WoL because they all do the same exact plan every single time.

"Wait, whaaaaat? They slayed another primal/big machine we spent millions of gil building? Buhhhhh!?"

[LineageRazor]

*After a harrowing battle, the Warrior of Light is finally laid low. It was a lucky blow from an unnamed soldier that finally brought the legend down; hardly the kind of noble death the bards would be like to sing of. Nevertheless, it was the greatest triumph those present had ever known. Lifting aloft that nameless hero, the few Garlean survivors raise a cheer of victory - but it is short-lived...*

Garlean Intelligence officer: Our agents in Rhalgr's Reach have just reported that the Warrior of Light has respawned at the Aetherite Crystal!

*Cheers turn to moans of dismay.*

Garlean Intelligence officer: The Warrior of Light has... equipped a pickaxe? Something about Azurite node spawning? I'm not sure I understand...

*Moans of dismay turn to puzzled looks - but the grim realization remains that the Warrior of Light yet lives, and will be back to try again...*