What is with this game and half-naked women as bosses?

[Jem]

As someone who has done live figure drawing and painting as a hobby for many years, I wish we could reach a point where we are comfortable with both male and female non-sexualized nudity or partial nudity. While it seems like this game is pretty much there for the famale side, Sophia and the 24 man raid bosses look great imo, they are tasteful and serious and just plain cool looking. The male side could use some work. From an artistic side, and my personal preference, themematicly I love the idea of the transient nude male figure. Like Dr Manhattan or the Renaissance Man, using nudity to show they have forgone normal man and became something more perfect.

[tjw]

snip

It's almost as if you haven't read this thread in its entirety...

Ask yourself this when you start going on with those tangents. How many of those bosses can you have both the figure for in real life, and how many can you actually cosplay as? Let me know the next time you're able to sprout two extra arms and bulk up your entire upper body to cosplay as Sephirot. Because that's a key difference between the masculine and feminine bosses in FFXIV, that one side is still plenty relatable as a human, while the other is grossly over-exaggerated.

This completely falls apart because there are more than plenty of female gamers who find sexy/attractive female characters to be just as empowering to them as a buff barbarian would be to men..

The problem being exactly that. The target audience, and, in relation to that, the context. MMOs in particular have always had an abundance in male gamers over female gamers, whereas romance novels have been more readily accepted by female readers than male readers. Is it a social construct? Or is it something in our biology that makes the two different genders separate in its ideologies? Who knows. Why can only females participate in sychronised swimming and rhythmic gymnastics at the Olympics? Why are construction and mechanical workers predominantly male? Context is very important when we talk about the 'ideal' population for a male or female.

However, in this forum and topic, we are dealing with the gaming context, which constitutes of mainly males. There are obviously men who like the appeal of a masculine body (me included), but the way game industries work prove otherwise. As someone stated before, the one time SE tried making a male less modest in Mobius was instantly met with heated backlash. Things will change in baby steps, however.

Now you're just making up arbitrary restrictions. Who cares what someone can and can't cosplay? Someone can absolutely cosplay Sephirot and do it just fine but it'd be a big undertaking but it's absolutely do-able. Just like plenty of people have cosplayed FFXIV's Garuda, despite the fact she has very non-human anatomy. Last time I checked humans didn't have 5 foot long forearms with 4 giant claws on their hands, with legs that are 2/3rds of their height that end in small almost points. Since when did humans have 4 wings coming out of their backs? Or when did humans have 5 wolf heads instead of a normal head? with a wolf's body for a lower body? You don't have people cosplaying Scylla do you?

So yeah, you can leave with that weak garbage.

Of course, if you're able to cosplay as any of those, more power to you. What it comes down to it is the relative ease, and thus, the more relatable one is to a human figure, that the one being cosplayed is. You mention Garuda. I would say Garuda is far easier to model than Sephirot, as many of Garuda's extra features are not in anyway part of the human body. The only thing Sephirot has that is not part of his body are his wings; his two extra pair of arms, the incredible bulk on them, and demonic features make him already harder to relate to than Garuda, as a humanoid. Key of note that the topic title is 'women', not 'females'.

Yes, people don't cosplay Scylla. Or Belladonna. Or Melusine. Or any other beastial form that will make it impossible to cosplay as. However, there are plenty of Shiva and Garudas. How many people have seen as Xande? Sephirot? Titan? Diablos? Very few, if any. So yes, as much as you post enemies with muscles bulging out of their skin that in no way relatable, I will also make my restrictions based on what typical people can easily relate to. You can...as you say...'leave' with your weak, unrelated, incontextual images and arguments.

[Shippuu]

It's almost as if you haven't read this thread in its entirety...

Ask yourself this when you start going on with those tangents. How many of those bosses can you have both the figure for in real life, and how many can you actually cosplay as? Let me know the next time you're able to sprout two extra arms and bulk up your entire upper body to cosplay as Sephirot. Because that's a key difference between the masculine and feminine bosses in FFXIV, that one side is still plenty relatable as a human, while the other is grossly over-exaggerated.

Now you're just making up arbitrary restrictions. Who cares what someone can and can't cosplay? Someone can absolutely cosplay Sephirot and do it just fine but it'd be a big undertaking but it's absolutely do-able. Just like plenty of people have cosplayed FFXIV's Garuda, despite the fact she has very non-human anatomy. Last time I checked humans didn't have 5 foot long forearms with 4 giant claws on their hands, with legs that are 2/3rds of their height that end in small almost points. Since when did humans have 4 wings coming out of their backs? Or when did humans have 5 wolf heads instead of a normal head? with a wolf's body for a lower body? You don't have people cosplaying Scylla do you?

So yeah, you can leave with that weak garbage.

[Shippuu]

the one time SE tried making a male less modest in Mobius was instantly met with heated backlash. Things will change in baby steps, however.

The one time? really? I mean, SE had no problem with



Things have only gone backwards now as we live in a social media age where backlash can be widely broadcast and spread. SE chose to change Mobius because a backlash of generally their core demographic which is simply business sense, as opposed to plenty of games/comics/movies who self-censor due to backlashes from people who aren't even the ones consuming the content (such as Capcom with their Street Fighter changes, or various comic book crap etc.)

[Parodine]

"vaguely humanoid" then huh?

Diabolos, bird man, and demon-centaur dude are hyper weak examples, but props for the googling.

Still, just counting primals alone (Even though Titan and Sephirot aren't even on the same level as the MUCH more human women features) clearly the sexy women outnumber the men 4 to 2.

Things have only gone backwards now as we live in a social media age where backlash can be widely broadcast and spread. SE chose to change Mobius because a backlash of generally their core demographic which is simply business sense, as opposed to plenty of games/comics/movies who self-censor due to backlashes from people who aren't even the ones consuming the content (such as Capcom with their Street Fighter changes, or various comic book crap etc.)

See, and this is where I wish people would just be blunt - if you're part of that core demographic, I realize you could give less about the cares of someone like me. But don't get mad or be argumentative at trying to express an opinion of what I or others may want out of the game since our subscriptions fuel things too. And if SE doesn't do it, that's their prerogative. But oh well, it's better than being silent.

[Underdog2204]

See, and this is where I wish people would just be blunt - if you're part of that core demographic, I realize you could give less about the cares of someone like me. But don't get mad or be argumentative at trying to express an opinion of what I or others may want out of the game since our subscriptions fuel things too. And if SE doesn't do it, that's their prerogative. But oh well, it's better than being silent.

I'm not part of the core demographic and find all of this silly and petty... I enjoy the primal themes and think Sophia is one of the best.

Are we only restricting this to bosses? I mean that's convieniently arbitary since there is plenty of male eye candy that get very real screentime with the PC...

[Shippuu]

Yes, people don't cosplay Scylla. Or Belladonna. Or Melusine. Or any other beastial form that will make it impossible to cosplay as. However, there are plenty of Shiva and Garudas. How many people have seen as Xande? Sephirot? Titan? Diablos? Very few, if any. So yes, as much as you post enemies with muscles bulging out of their skin that in no way relatable, I will also make my restrictions based on what typical people can easily relate to. You can...as you say...'leave' with your weak, unrelated, incontextual images and arguments.

Man, it's almost like the cosplaying hobby is overwhelmingly dominated by women? That couldn't possibly sway the numbers in what things are and aren't cosplayed at all! But I have to thank you for bringing that up because it helps destroy other arguments about the whole wish fulfillment gendered bull that other people spout cause clearly lots of female cosplayers find those "sexy" designs empowering enough to want to go through the trouble and cost dress up as them.

But still you are making terrible arguments, what people cosplay and why has no bearing on this issue.

[Parodine]

I'm not part of the core demographic and find all of this silly and petty... I enjoy the primal themes and think Sophia is one of the best.

Are we only restricting this to bosses? I mean that's convieniently arbitary since there is plenty of male eye candy that get very real screentime with the PC...

Technically yes, since that is what the thread's title is about. And their music themes are great in the own way and the game is enriched by them - but also again, have no bearing on what is being discussed.

[tjw]

Are we only restricting this to bosses? I mean that's convieniently arbitary since there is plenty of male eye candy that get very real screentime with the PC...

As parodine states, the original topic post was about bosses in particular, so yes. Somewhere down the line, it started going into other facets of the game which more than balanced in this regard.

(I can't believe I'm actually agreeing with a lalafell for once.)

[Jem]

I also dislike the modern trope of female nudity = mystical and/or empowering, while male nudity = humorous and/or demoralizing. look at the example of Y'shtola emerging naked from the sea of aether it was very mystical and really cool looking, ment to be a powerful cs, when the same thing happens to Thancred his nudity is played off for a laugh. Though the trope goes well beyond just ffxiv.