About AST and why their healing is weaker

[Yhisa]

I mean no matter what type of new healer u come up with... SCH and WHM will always be dominate not matter what the only way to fix AST would to also look @ the current healers And make it so that u can play with any set up like WHM /AST or SCH/AST or WHM / SCH in order for this to work is by looking at the old healers and there utility then Rework AST to make up for that Weakness... Currently WHM and SCH combo have 0 weakness because they are soo insync with each other that making a new healer is pointless due to how strong these 2 healers are together

[Yhisa]

So in all they would need to Redo all the healers and there utility .. Yes that means nerfing WHM and SCH to not have soo much utility so that AST can be brought to the party and have fun with Either healer we need all the healers to be in sync with each other and currently AST do not sync with WHM or SCH but becomes more of a burden to these healers instead

[Yhisa]

Omg I'm an idiot..... Why not make it so AST is a pure buffing job that boost the other 2 healers and party for example they could empower WHM to have Shields for % of there base heals... And empower SCH to have powerful HOT's to there Shields.... This way we are brought for utility only whilst providing average DPS to the table...so we be the enchantress for the party ...

[Ghishlain]

What people are meaning by the term weaker heals is that their overall healling options are limited and have only limited use. No raid or dungeon group is a perfect run, there is always a derp moment. What sets Whm/Sch ahead of Ast is their ability to negate those derp moments entirely by having more options available.

The card aspect of Ast is a failure. They traded healing options for an RNG card game that is outclassed by other mechanics of the other two healers and other DPS jobs. It was a bad design flaw on Yoshi P's part. His view was narrow and left the class lacking in any real utility that would benefit the raid/party. Until Ast get more emergency healing tools, they will continue to be pushed to the back burner. We need reliability and right now Ast are not reliable in the least. *Slow clap for Yoshi P*

Indeed. For me these are the primary flaws I see:

1. Their baseline kit is weaker than their healer counter parts
2. Lack of any buffs that boost their healing output
3. RNG buff system that is statistically weaker than it should be

Hopefully we'll see some changes in the near future once Yoshi-P and team analyze the data they have.

I did, and I later reneged on the subject when I considered how AST needs to keep the group alive first and foremost, though any content they can queue for, even with groups of players who get hit a lot.

If AST were a DPS class, this would be a whole different story, as the onus of healing wouldn't be falling on AST's shoulders and the risk vs. reward would only be about potentially lower DPS vs. potentially higher DPS.

There's ways they can still TRY for that, and I think I'll make a thread about that right now...

I'll try not to make a bitchy post and derail the thread like I did last time >>; Apologies for that, still.

I actually don't agree on the part that it must be on the same level as whm/sch as a healer. After all, the current meta in healing involves one pure healer (whm) and one support healer (sch) that mostly do dps. This of course requires a perfect knowledge of the encounter and a very good healer. Just look at A2S and A3S clear videos. Sure, they look indeed very challenging, but nothing a pure healer + support healer can't handle. AST should be that support healer imo, like SCH is now, but instead of doing dps directly while letting the fairy assist the other healer, it should buff his/her companions (healer included) consistently while taking care of what the pure healer cannot do with some kind of unique feature (time based healing magic - pet-like stars - whatever). This could set a new meta for when an AST is in party. Right now, ast as a healer is just a whm wannabe who can trade hots for weak shields when in Noct stance and with crappy cards instead of useful CDs or oGCD abilities and with weaker versions of already existing skills. Nothing in the way ast heals feels unique except for Synastry which is the only skill that somewhat defines its otherwise very lacking personality as a healer...and it's not enough. Honestly, I feel like removing the RNG component from cards while also tweking some of their effects might fix most of AST problems, but I'm not sure they're planning to do it. RNG utility is no utility at all in raid progression and cards could be used 1) to buff your party dps when healing is easier; 2) to buff healing potency for healing checks and 3) to mitigate damage (expanded bole) for big AoEs. Choosing among these 3 options would make AST a very flexible healer and correctly evaluating the trade-off between "healing more" and "making your dps do more damage" using cards would be key and very interesting. Cards now are just "oh, ewer, let me use it on myself, you never know...oh, balance/arrow, let me spread it hoping I can expand it with the next draw...everything else I'll throw on someone random".
Also, I can't see why Ewer and Spire effects are what they are now. We have bards and machinists for that and anyway running out of TP/MP is something that happens rarely or shouldn't happen at all, having a 1/3 chance of drawing a card for this purpose is just useless.

I can go with this for a degree. But there has to be a fine line because if AST can't ever output the required healing, then it's up to their partner to pick up their slack.

In the vein of making AST more of a pure buffer support, I wouldn't mind seeing buffs that would increase the output of their healing partner as well. If they are going to go this route, they're going to need to re-evaluate the effects and potency of the buffs to make them much more spectacular - as has been suggested in the past by a myriad amount of posters.

I personally don't like the idea of a pure buffing healer with baseline average healing, but that's my own personal opinion.

I actually really like that, but you could just get screwed by RNG and never draw a Bole when you need the +10% healing anyways and therefore AST would be back to where they are now. I think maybe Synastry is the way to go in increasing their overall potency + buff card effects a little bit to make them more impactful.

For example: Synastry Recast is now 90s and duration 30s. The target with Synastry on them receives +20% Healing for the duration and all Benefics cast on another player now heal the party member with Synastry on them for 50% of the total healing done (unaffected by the 20% buff). That way, AST has a way to buff their own healing potency when required while still keeping current functionality.

Di Ast: 482 potency per GCD - > 578.4 for the duration
Noct Ast: 399 potency per GCD -> 478.4 for the duration (still fairly weak).

I could go for this. I might tweak the healing received bonus to be slightly lower since it does affect both healers, but the concept itself is something I can get behind.

Could just keep it as it is now and give the stacking defense on top of it (currently it's 525 total I believe).

Also Nocturnal AST would still suck unless it was a huge defense increase (over 20%) because their healing mitigation would still be worse than WHM/SCH....and it would also increase WHM/SCH healing mitigation by the same %.

They could just change Noct stance to also increase the power of the effect of cards in Noct stance to be +50%, to cement Noct AST as the farm-content healing stance and make Diurnal the progression-based stance.

Well, let's take this a step further and flesh this idea out a bit then.

Nocturnal Aspected Benefic, when cast upon the target provides:

1. A 250 + 5% Potency Heal
2. A 250 + 5% Potency Shield (30s duration)
3. A stacking buff that increases defense and magic defense by 3% (15s duration)

Let's say this stacks up to 5 stacks for a total of 15% defense and magic defense and is then refreshed upon each additional application. This is basically another Proshell being put on top of the target. Of course you'll want to keep using Aspected Benefic on the target but doing 5 of these back to back to back to back would drain the AST's MP very quickly, so you do have the moderate the application of it.

I think I can get behind this if it's tweaked some as it sounds a little too powerful on paper at this time.

===============

@the topic of AST identity

I feel S-E has three methods to buff AST into specific themes at this current juncture

1. Make it a unique single target healer that makes use of either Diurnal Sect (speed healing / HoTs) or Nocturnal Sect (impactful heals) and adjust their cooldowns to suit these themes and give them a more unique flavour. Adjust Cards slightly to suit.
2. Allow AST to become a hybrid healer of sorts by allowing them stance dance so they can become a mini WHM into a mini SCH. Adjust the cooldowns of their kit to suit and try to give them more unique flavouring with tweaks to their Sect bonuses / abilities. Adjust cards slightly to suit.
3. Make AST a powerful buffing class that needs to be carried by the other healer to get through content. At least adjust their baseline heals to have them equal their counterparts when not taking into account potency boosting CDs and healing emergency buttons.

I'd prefer #1 personally, but I know that isn't what everyone wants either.

[SuzakuCMX]

Make AST a powerful buffing class that needs to be carried by the other healer to get through content. At least adjust their baseline heals to have them equal their counterparts when not taking into account potency boosting CDs and healing emergency buttons.

I'd actually prefer this route as it makes them more unique. Maybe if AST kept their current "worse healing" and instead had a CD they could use on their partner that increased the target's healing output by a %? That way AST would still be worse at solo healing content, but wouldn't have to worry as much about forcing the other healer to use their CDs since their baseline healing is now increased by AST, and they would have more time to DPS and use card buffs.

Switch Noct and Di stance benefits (Di now gives +5% potency per heal and Noct gets +5% cast speed) but also make it so Noct improves card effects by 50% (Permanent enhanced!). Noct Stance is now for support healing and large card buffs, while Di is for when you need more healing done.

Noct Benefic now is a 100 potency heal that gives an 8% max health shield to the target and it stacks with SCH shields.

And then there you have it; AST is now the DPS/Support healer who makes everyone else in the party more efficient rather than just being a copy of WHM or SCH depending on the stance.

[GideonHighmourn]

SE's design decision to make AST's healing kit based on SCH/WHM's healing kit really puts a hamper on properly balancing it without making it too powerful or too underpowered. With balancing, you either get too close to WHM/SCH to make a noticeable difference between them, or too underpowered to where there's really no reason to bring AST. I understand the concept, but I can't for the life of me understand why they didn't give AST a more unique healing mechanism of it's own. Currently, Synastry is the only unique healing mechanic AST has.

Locked into Dirunal/Nocturnal really limits them to just being a WHM/SCH Jr, but there's really not much perceivable benefit to being able to swap between them, especially on a long cool down as was originally discussed. I'd much rather see AST be able to compete with (unique) healing and it's own utility, rather than borrowing their entire toolkit from SCH/WHM; however, I don't think it's likely they will revamp the entire class from the ground up.

[Yhisa]

or just remove the Healing buffs WHM and SCH have? since shields / regen/ raw healing is too good together even without increase healing cooldowns... so maybe remove there + Healing buffs and make the AST provide the + Healing buff so in theory it should work like this in terms of set up

WHM / SCH - Raw healing + Mitigation + Damage
AST / SCH - Buffs + Mitigation + Hots
WHM/ AST - Raw healing + Buffs + Hots

so far the SCH and WHM litterally feeds of each other and is an unbeatable combo with 0 weakness so in order to have the trinity between the 3 healers u would have to Take away utility from the current healers and allow AST to be the supporting healing so in theory this is how the healers would look with there own identity

WHM = Raw Healing Power + Raw Damage
SCH = Mitigation control + Damage over time
AST = Healing over time + Buffing Control

this way they all help with each other weakness so think of it like a triangle AST can support and buff both WHM and SCH..... SCH can reduce damage for Group and dps so WHM and AST can heal,,,,,,, WHM can provide PURE healing to AST and SCH allowing them to deal dps ... see the triangle now.... but currently WHM/SCH are far to strong and have all utility which makes them Far to powerful

Or take away the HOTS WHM and SCH can provide and turn AST into a Full time Healing over time Job with buffs attached to it

This is the problem that WHM and SCH have got far far far too much ... No matter how much u buff AST in healing or there cards.... WHM and SCH will still be kings and Queens in the healing/ damage department..... the only way to Fix AST would to be looking at WHM and SCH and make a triangle effect with the 3 healers so they Cover each other weaknesses and not have WHM/SCH cover all at once.... this is the reason why AST is kicked the the curb XD

[Galdous]

That would be one way to buff astrologian indirectly I guess by nerfing white mage and scholar...

[Ghishlain]

I'd actually prefer this route as it makes them more unique. Maybe if AST kept their current "worse healing" and instead had a CD they could use on their partner that increased the target's healing output by a %? That way AST would still be worse at solo healing content, but wouldn't have to worry as much about forcing the other healer to use their CDs since their baseline healing is now increased by AST, and they would have more time to DPS and use card buffs.

Switch Noct and Di stance benefits (Di now gives +5% potency per heal and Noct gets +5% cast speed) but also make it so Noct improves card effects by 50% (Permanent enhanced!). Noct Stance is now for support healing and large card buffs, while Di is for when you need more healing done.

Noct Benefic now is a 100 potency heal that gives an 8% max health shield to the target and it stacks with SCH shields.

And then there you have it; AST is now the DPS/Support healer who makes everyone else in the party more efficient rather than just being a copy of WHM or SCH depending on the stance.

I can go for this, to be frank. Maybe tweak things here or there but it doesn't seem any bit OP on paper.

SE's design decision to make AST's healing kit based on SCH/WHM's healing kit really puts a hamper on properly balancing it without making it too powerful or too underpowered. With balancing, you either get too close to WHM/SCH to make a noticeable difference between them, or too underpowered to where there's really no reason to bring AST. I understand the concept, but I can't for the life of me understand why they didn't give AST a more unique healing mechanism of it's own. Currently, Synastry is the only unique healing mechanic AST has.

Locked into Dirunal/Nocturnal really limits them to just being a WHM/SCH Jr, but there's really not much perceivable benefit to being able to swap between them, especially on a long cool down as was originally discussed. I'd much rather see AST be able to compete with (unique) healing and it's own utility, rather than borrowing their entire toolkit from SCH/WHM; however, I don't think it's likely they will revamp the entire class from the ground up.

Indeed, we should try to make the AST kit more unique and powerful without stepping onto the toes of their healing counterparts.

Thoughts I had in mind to add uniqueness to the healing kit (not much thought had really gone into balancing these, just thoughts I'm putting out there for fun factor):

Diurnal Sect Changes
Enhanced Benefic: Make it an oGCD ability similar to Lustrate
Time Dilation: Reduces cooldown to 60s

Nocturnal Sect Changes
Enhanced Benefic: 25% more Potency
Time Dilation: Increases card effects by 50%
Collective Unconciousness: 20% Damage Reduction

(In General) Celestial Opposition Change: Turns on both sects for a 15 second duration.

or just remove the Healing buffs WHM and SCH have? since shields / regen/ raw healing is too good together even without increase healing cooldowns... so maybe remove there + Healing buffs and make the AST provide the + Healing buff so in theory it should work like this in terms of set up

WHM / SCH - Raw healing + Mitigation + Damage
AST / SCH - Buffs + Mitigation + Hots
WHM/ AST - Raw healing + Buffs + Hots

so far the SCH and WHM litterally feeds of each other and is an unbeatable combo with 0 weakness so in order to have the trinity between the 3 healers u would have to Take away utility from the current healers and allow AST to be the supporting healing so in theory this is how the healers would look with there own identity

WHM = Raw Healing Power + Raw Damage
SCH = Mitigation control + Damage over time
AST = Healing over time + Buffing Control

this way they all help with each other weakness so think of it like a triangle AST can support and buff both WHM and SCH..... SCH can reduce damage for Group and dps so WHM and AST can heal,,,,,,, WHM can provide PURE healing to AST and SCH allowing them to deal dps ... see the triangle now.... but currently WHM/SCH are far to strong and have all utility which makes them Far to powerful

Or take away the HOTS WHM and SCH can provide and turn AST into a Full time Healing over time Job with buffs attached to it

This is the problem that WHM and SCH have got far far far too much ... No matter how much u buff AST in healing or there cards.... WHM and SCH will still be kings and Queens in the healing/ damage department..... the only way to Fix AST would to be looking at WHM and SCH and make a triangle effect with the 3 healers so they Cover each other weaknesses and not have WHM/SCH cover all at once.... this is the reason why AST is kicked the the curb XD

I would be highly against removing tools from the other two jobs. There's no better way to infuriate pretty much 95% of the healer community short of saying "Hey, these two healers are too powerful, so we're going to nerf them to meet the same power level as the third". This would only please a very small minority of players.

[Vlady]

Oo I like your idea of turning both stances on for 15 seconds.