Peaple keep ignoring the message "one or more players new to duty" aperently

[Twilite]

Gear is still going to work against you if it's not up to snuff in a new dungeon the gear is not well suited for.

[Taika]

I wish I could like this post a billion times:

I haven't personally seen anyone get kicked for saying they're new at the start of an instance, but regardless, it's best if you state you're new or need advice, because there are plenty of people out there who are willing to help.

As someone who does explain stuff, I only explain stuff relevant to the new person's role. Because explaining -everyone's- roles can take a while, and most people aren't too happy if something is explained for them when they don't need it. I also get a little tired if I have to explain the same stuff all day--lotta typing--so being brief is in my best interest, too.

I mean really, the run's going to be faster and smoother if everyone knows what's going on and the party doesn't wipe. People will generally take a moment to explain if they know advice is needed. And the game's announcement that someone's new isn't enough reason to explain everything for everyone, because as Nutz said, some people are on alts or are getting help from another channel or prepared themself beforehand; and if you're a new healer, you don't need me to explain a tank's or DPS' role, but the game won't tell me who it is that's new.
Whereas if you wipe, or there's chaos, because you happen to be in a crucial role and no one knew you had any idea what to do because you didn't say you needed advice? Nobody likes that.

If you don't ask for help, you don't get help. This is pretty normal both inside and outside of the game. There is no sign on you that says you actually -need- help, and we can't read your mind.

Soldiery message isn't you communicating to your party members about needing advice. It's an automatic message generated by the game telling nothing but 1 or more party members have not completed the instance on that character. The person may have completed the dungeon on another character, or studied the fights beforehand, or have someone in same party guiding them through it. Other party members are not mind readers.

[NorthernLadMSP]

It's interesting to read this and see how poorly you were treated by the tank. The reason I find it interesting is due to how many whine threads tanks have created recently acting as if it's always the tank who is treated badly by everyone else. It's quite ironic.

[Sapphic]

The whole thing is that the game ANNOUNCES when someone is new to a duty yet some ignore that. I think that's what op is getting to. There shouldn't be a need to openly say "hey, I'm new" when the game automatically does that. Especially because before you even have time to say that the tank already pulled an army on him. What's up with people assuming that every 1st timer is an alt and not an actual 1st timer?

Also people at endgame tend to not bother because by then they developed a god complex. "What could go wrong? Me and my buddy here are ilvl 91826398162."

Theresa big difference in a DPS being new and a tank or healer, also some people have alts thus can say there is a new player, yet they may have run it countless times before on their main. Which is why the new player needs step up and inform the partyin common courtesy.

Also to point out, just because some don't see any reason to have alt characters, doesn not imply everyone in the game does not. People use alts for their own reasons. Myself included.

[Rayeda]

What makes you believe that?

Cos i have a level 50 alt that i play sometimes for fun. And when i enter a dungeon with it i tell everyone it's an alt character and i do know the mechanics. Also many people i know play alts for fun, so it is fairly common i would say. But the main thing is that i don't know if no one is saying a word, and as i stated earlier i don't always remember to ask.

[Kit-Kat]

But either way, if you told them that you were new, the tank would of probably adjusted his pulling size. But if you didn't say you were new (the healer, of all people!), then i suppose it could your fault.

That's the thing. People assume it's the norm to do speed runs on every dungeon, as if it was the only way. New people most likely don't even know what a speed run is and wouldn't expect a tank to grab so many mobs when your gear is so low that your heals can't even keep up with a couple of mobs on a fresh 50 doing 50 dungeons (I remember healing like 500-600 when I hit 50 for the first time). Don't get me wrong, I'm all for speed runs, I like finishing runs asap as there's a lot of stuff to do and I wouldn't like to spend an hour or more in a single dungeon, but you gotta place yourself on a newbie point of view. Most of us are burnt out after running lower (even if 50, old) content for our current content (tomes, relics, whatever) and want to finish asap, but we have to understand newbies trying to enjoy something for the first time.

[Ashkendor]

It's interesting to read this and see how poorly you were treated by the tank. The reason I find it interesting is due to how many whine threads tanks have created recently acting as if it's always the tank who is treated badly by everyone else. It's quite ironic.

I don't see how it's particularly interesting or ironic at all. All it really says to me is that there's assholes in every role, which isn't exactly news. People treating tanks like crap isn't new. Conversely, tanks treating other people like crap isn't new either. The same goes for healers and DPS. None of is really particularly notable because it's just people treating each other like crap just like they do in RL. People are people, no matter what role they're in.

How that one tank treated this person has nothing to do with tanks that have been mistreated by others, aside from the common ground of some kind of mistreatment taking place during the course of the dungeon.

[Sicno]

Also to point out, just because some don't see any reason to have alt characters, doesn not imply everyone in the game does not. People use alts for their own reasons. Myself included.

The same goes the other way around. The fact that some people makes alts doesn't mean everybody new to a duty is an alt. Some will be actually new, some will be alts. Assuming EVERYBODY is either one is just stupid. And yes, new people should say so, but with the game announcing "one or more players are new to this duty" they may think that's enough. Because seriously, tell me how thinking this way makes sense:

"Game is telling me this guy is new? PFFFFFFF of course the game is lying! There's no chance this is a newbie. This right here is an alt. Just like all black mages and gatherers are RMT bots."

I would also expect the experienced people to make knowledge checks on complicated parts, like the aforementioned Qarn 1st boss. Because, you know, the experienced ones are the ones who know what parts are troublesome. Don't expect the newbie to know on their very 1st run.

[SpookyGhost]

It's really important to say that you're new. Most people who are experienced in these dungeons have ran them a million times, so it all just goes like clockwork to them. If you don't take it upon yourself to point out you're new, then no one will notice until you wipe them. It's rarely the case these days for me, but when I actually ran into new players and they said they were new I would stop at each boss and do a quick one sentence overview of the things they needed to do for that boss. Most (pretty much all) bosses in 4m dungeons can be explained in one or two sentences, there's really no excuse not to just take 5s to help the new player out and prevent a wipe. But, again, you're going to want to let us know or we're really not going to be paying attention to it.

[Seig345]

[...] "Game is telling me this guy is new? PFFFFFFF of course the game is lying! There's no chance this is a newbie. This right here is an alt. Just like all black mages and gatherers are RMT bots." [...]

The problem is the game doesn't tell you "this guy is new", it tells you that one or more players are new. Would need to stop and have a group huddle every time that message comes up to find out who it is and if they're new or an alt, and that's assuming the new player doesn't just keep quiet because they're afraid of being singled out.

Meanwhile, after the third dungeon (as in, the first three dungeons in the MSQ), a new player has been given ample time to realize that the game will announce when a player is in a dungeon they haven't completed yet, which means they're likely going to end up in a group with players who are already familiar with the content, and that dungeons have boss fights with mechanics.

A new player knows every time that they're going into a dungeon for the first time; but for everyone else, they see that message and it could be a new player, a silent new player, or an alt.