Yep, its too much. They're going to buff warriors too much if those changes go live

[SwordCoheir]

That's what has me excited most about these changes. I already love the synergy between WHM and SCH and with these changes it looks like bringing a PLD and a WAR will be the best option.

Pretty much my thoughts as well. Yoshi is hellbent on trying to make it where having a diverse party far outweighs the benefits of class stacking, and I'm all for it. I'm just drooling at the thought of STR down, and x2 DMG down 100% of the time, throw in the occasional Virus and Sacred Soil and it's all gravy. Really just think of the prospects on things like Extreme Primals or Twintania, I'm just jittery with excitement!

[Zakalwe]

Looking forward to finishing leveling my Warrior and trying out WAR 2.0 (or rather, 2.1). Seriously, two strong, viable tanks in the game is a good thing.

[Enjin]

SNIP

This better be a troll post. If not, the PLDs you are playing with are bad; straight up. When I went from WAR to PLD the difference was night and day. I love my WAR but the PLDs toolkit is insane. The only thing I hate about my PLD is threat generation. That's it.

[Maelwys]

Show the math then

Math. And also, relevant thread, relevant thread, relevant thread, relevant thread and relevant thread.

I'm sure there are plenty more, I got bored of looking after the first dozen or so pages of evidence.

[OmegaSinX]

Stop Posting In this Troll Thread. PLD will still have better mitigation. ALL they did(plan on doing) is bring WAR up to PAR to PLD so all these PLD can stop with the knee jerk reaction of PLD need to be Buff too. PLD do not need to be buff too.

(I Posted this in another thread, reposting)


Hallow Ground vs Holmgang :
Scenerio: PLD pops Hallow Ground So Healer1 can Raise Healer2 > Healer1 Raises Healer2> PLD still has Full HP and few more secs b4 Hallow Ground runs out.

Same Scenerio: WAR Pops Holmgang> Healer1 Raises Healer2> WAR HP is Critically Low, Holmgang Effect Wears off> Before WHM can Heal WAR Dies.

Winner: Hallow Ground even with the longer CD.

Inner Beast vs Rampart:
Sure you can have 20% mitigation essenstially evey 20 or so secs with Inner Beast, but people forget to account that PLD has a Shield + 20% Constant Mitigation in their stance. If anything, The New inner beast only Compensates for WARs lack of Shield. When PLD pop Rampart, they are really mitigating 40% (with the additional +20% from Shield Oath) and they are mitigating 60% with Sentinal, and lets not forget parry. Shield Block can block 100% of damage sometimes.

Winner: Rampart

New Defiance vs Shield Oath: Scenerio: PLD HP: 5000, WAR HP: 6250, Mobs Hits Tank for 4K Burst. PLD takes 3200, War Takes 4k Damage. Healer heals for 2k, PLD recovers 2k, WAR recovers 2400. PLD HP NOW: 3800(76% of Max HP), WAR HP NOW:4650 (74% of maxHP)

Winner: Tie. With regard to effective hp, Shield Oath still Wins. For Overall use, New Defiance Wins becauses of added crit chance.

Vengance vs Sentinal: See "Inner Beast Vs Rampart". Same Story here.

Winner: Sentinal

The 2 Classes are on even footing now.

IMO New WAR+PLD Combo will be Best for Future Parties. So Please Stop the Madness

[wonka11]

This better be a troll post. If not, the PLDs you are playing with are bad; straight up. When I went from WAR to PLD the difference was night and day. I love my WAR but the PLDs toolkit is insane. The only thing I hate about my PLD is threat generation. That's it.

What are you even saying? I'm guessing you've spent absolutely no time reading what my actual argument is about.

The reason you saw a difference is because paladins are overpowered from game design, you'd know this if you took about two seconds to read anything I wrote in my original argument. The problem was never warrior, it was and still is paladin. Buffing warrior to paladin is the incorrect thing to do, because warriors are perfectly balanced for their gear progression versus game mechanics now.

The only reason people are whining is because it takes a considerably higher skill cap on the raid/tank to coordinate RoD/Soil/Proper Healing/etc, when tanking with a warrior. Too many people here come from wow where it takes nearly no skill requirement nor does it require a heavy strain on your raid to clear content.

If you feel that the game should be easier, I disagree with you and I hope it doesn't get easier.

To everyone complaining about the "difficulty of healing warriors" the truth is, they're balanced and you're lacking somewhere in your own ability or your raid is. Sorry the game isnt easy enough that you guys can play fruit ninja at the same time you're raiding.

The only thing ffxiv arr has going for it is the increased difficulty when it comes to raiding. Take that away and we have another crappy wow clone.

[Devils]

Pretty much my thoughts as well. Yoshi is hellbent on trying to make it where having a diverse party far outweighs the benefits of class stacking, and I'm all for it. I'm just drooling at the thought of STR down, and x2 DMG down 100% of the time, throw in the occasional Virus and Sacred Soil and it's all gravy. Really just think of the prospects on things like Extreme Primals or Twintania, I'm just jittery with excitement!

So much this, with the added content being released I thin people are comparing the tanks on existing content. Well if something major wasn't done with WAR imagine how far behind the curve we would be with Extreme Primals alone. I am hoping with the buffs for WAR and leaving PLD alone that we are both really challenged with the content coming out.

[Vmage]

The reason you saw a difference is because paladins are overpowered from game design, you'd know this if you took about two seconds to read anything I wrote in my original argument. The problem was never warrior, it was and still is paladin. Buffing warrior to paladin is the incorrect thing to do, because warriors are perfectly balanced for their gear progression versus game mechanics now

that's a philosophical argument, not a factual one.

you may see paladins as too strong (half full), while others see warriors as too weak (half empty)

that is, unless you buy every word SE says.. and accept both that warriors were 'performing very well, and even better than paladins in some cases' in their internal testing, and accept that noone had the foresight at SE to think that paladins would use rampart and/or sentinel while tanking

personally i give them more credit than that

[wonka11]

that's a philosophical argument, not a factual one.

Yoshi >> First, I'd like to talk about the boss monsters in the Binding Coil of Bahamut Turn 1 and 4. We designed them so that even tanks could not withstand their attacks when they have buffs stacked; however, at the moment only paladin is able to survive through a method we had not thought of. Our original vision for this was that players would clear these encounters by properly removing enemy buffs or kill them all before it got to the point where they would one-shot players.

Since this is content that has already been released and strategies have already been established, we won't be making adjustments to these encounters. Instead we'll be looking into making adjustments to warrior so they can withstand this like paladin is able to.

Right from the horse's mouth. So yes, it is indeed factual.

Link for reference: http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...810-30-2013%29

It is important to realize, people's conception on balance was/is completely skewed. Since paladin (OP, not intended) allowed for people to tackle coil without the proper gear (its an i90 dungeon, highest gear before then is is i70, so everyone was going to coil under geared. Again here I am relying on logic to tell me that the missing iLevel of gear is an issue), means that the Warrior (perfectly balanced based on current implemented gear progression) suffered from a backwards content release where we skipped an ilevel of gear.

Once warriors caught up into what is the proper gear level (not over geared, remember coil is i90) from mythos gears or the precious allagan pieces that dropped, you then saw warriors start to tank and even now MT twitanna based on what the progression would have been if warriors were in i90 (the proper gear).

Its pretty easy to see that from both a logical and informational standpoint, the argument is completely valid.

People just don't like the idea that they've been clearing content a bit easier than they should have been.

[Giantbane]

Right from the horse's mouth. So yes, it is indeed factual.

Link for reference: http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...810-30-2013%29

It is important to realize, people's conception on balance was/is completely skewed. Since paladin (OP, not intended) allowed for people to tackle coil without the proper gear (its an i90 dungeon, highest gear before then is is i70, so everyone was going to coil under geared. Again here I am relying on logic to tell me that the missing iLevel of gear is an issue), means that the Warrior (perfectly balanced based on current implemented gear progression) suffered from a backwards content release where we skipped an ilevel of gear.

Once warriors caught up into what is the proper gear level (not over geared, remember coil is i90) from mythos gears or the precious allagan pieces that dropped, you then saw warriors start to tank and even now MT twitanna based on what the progression would have been if warriors were in i90 (the proper gear).

Its pretty easy to see that from both a logical and informational standpoint, the argument is completely valid.

People just don't like the idea that they've been clearing content a bit easier than they should have been.

Your argument is they should nerf PLD. The quote clearly shows that they both realize this, and are not going to do it. It is more important to them to keep paying customers happy than nerf the PLD. But balanced tanks is important so they're buffing the WAR instead.

At least they know what the problem was. So when adding the next round of end game content, you can expect future content will be balanced to be just as difficult as it was for the WAR this time around. The difference is that it should be just as difficult for both tanks since they're closer to being balanced. And ideally it will work out this way, as having made this mistake once, they should hopefully be able to avoid it in the future.

But you already know they know what the problem is, and you already know they're not going to nerf PLD either. So what's the point of the big post?