Yep, its too much. They're going to buff warriors too much if those changes go live

[NightReach]

Stop eating forum beliefs when I say War are miles ahead trust me they are we been parsing our war vs pld in dps gear and hands down war is better... talking not even close like 170 - 180 dps vs 200 - 220 dps on our warrior.

And thats with the pld getting the warriors debuff... just saying with being able to IB more often War damage out put will really take off....

Oh and what plp dont under stand you can put up defiance stance enrage IB and drop stance every 60 seconds to add to your dps rotation you dont keep the stance on the whole fight.

This is utterly false. in long fights pld's flight or flight is far far greater than that of bezerk as bezerk has 1/2 of the uptime not to mention you lose 2 GCD after bezerk. I also highly doubt your tanks can ever get to 220 dps. In fact our fully geared out mnk very very rarely hit 300 dps and there are no ilv90 dps gear apart from jewels that tank can use.

[Maelwys]

There's no reason to save Wrath stacks any more due to the changes in Defiance. Which is the change that Warrior mechanics needed most. So why wouldn't you blow IB everytime you have a full Wrath stack when you're tanking? It's a 6sec Rampart every ~15sec. It sounds pretty OP to me.

The reason you save it is because you want to time the +20% mitigation to kick in right before a big hit (think: Mountain Buster)

If you're steamrolling content, by all means spam it. But you need at least 20 seconds to build 5 stacks of wrath and cast IB (assuming that you can activate Weaponskills back-to-back without any delay between them other than the GCD, and that you already have a combo ability queued up ready to use and therefore only need to use Heavy Swing twice- [2][3][1][2][3][1][2] + [IB] = 20s, if you're starting from scratch and have to use Heavy Swing three times, it's 22.5 seconds). And you can use Infuriate, once a minute.

6 seconds of -20% damage every 20 seconds = an average of 6% damage mitigation over time (if you're trying to spam IB and nothing else). Without even touching on PLD's active mitigation cooldowns, Paladin's Shield Block alone is roughly a 25% chance for -25% damage That's 6.25% on average (or higher, given additional +STR and Parry). The only real benefit the WAR has over the PLD there is that they can save IB to use for extra guaranteed mitigation on regular timed big hits. PLDs can't guarantee a Shield Block.

Stop eating forum beliefs when I say War are miles ahead trust me they are we been parsing our war vs pld in dps gear and hands down war is better... talking not even close like 170 - 180 dps vs 200 - 220 dps on our warrior.

Then by all means bring your WAR over your PLD.

However many other parses, and raw math, would suggest that what you are seeing there is not the optimal damage output of those jobs when equally-geared and stat'ed and using optimal ability rotations.

It's kinda hot in here, the PLD circlejerk is making it hot and sweaty in here

Obvious troll is obvious. However if it offends you for me to suggest that WAR and PLD are now roughly equal in performance, then I apologise. There are a LOT of people jumping on the "WAR is now overpowered! Nobody will want a PLD ever again!" bandwagon at the moment. The point I'm trying to make here is that WAR was a noticeably more fragile tank, and now it isn't.

As a main PLD who has WAR at 50, I'm not annoyed that they buffed WAR, and I'm not planning to switch my main to WAR even though I have one sitting at 50 that is already pretty much fully geared. I'm merely pointing out that the two jobs will now each have their individual benefits but will be close enough in performance for a team to bring either along, and to bring one of each if possible for maximum efficiency. That's all there is to it.

[Leiron]

War/War combo might be better now idk hard to say the extra dps they bring to raid and well timed provoke to help the MT war when cool downs are down... the question is rage of halone worth the pld utlity vs keeping new dmg debuff up 100% of the time with 2 wars?

Except that the DPS isn't that much better, n fact its extremely small with Paladin having an edge with the slash debuff present.
So you'll get better overall DPS thorugh WAR/PLD than War/war.
Furthermore, PLD has better utility than a War, and it is not something that can be ignored or given up.
Two WAR's also do not have RoH, which means less damage being taken from the boss.

Plus to mention yes if war uses cd's right their dmg output is miles ahead of PLD.

No. Its a fact that their DPS is not miles ahead, its been parsed, its been theory crafted. Get out of 1.0

[NightReach]

As a main PLD who has WAR at 50, I'm not annoyed that they buffed WAR, and I'm not planning to switch my main to WAR even though I have one sitting at 50 that is already pretty much fully geared. I'm merely pointing out that the two jobs will now each have their individual benefits but will be close enough in performance for a team to bring either along, and to bring one of each if possible for maximum efficiency. That's all there is to it.

I think all this buff is going to do is make pld+war combo standard composition like sch + whm, which is already fairly common (only certain fights severely favors pld due to 1 or 2 mechanics). Who's MT and who's OT will probably depend on the fight. Though I should think that pld should stay MT as they are by far easier to manage.

All in all for people that raid and ppl that mains tank should have both warr/pld lved and reliced, plus they do share i90 gear so its not even hard.

[saber_alter]

as a paladin...i really don't care if this makes warrior OP.

in fact i'm quite happy that warrior is being buffed. it was disheartening that the game was released with an imbalance between the two tanking classes. (i'm still staying as paladin though, like swords, like mitigation tanks)

[Baci]

Since I started with Warrior, I´m glad for the changes and hope that they kick in the right amount

[SwordCoheir]

I'm merely pointing out that the two jobs will now each have their individual benefits but will be close enough in performance for a team to bring either along, and to bring one of each if possible for maximum efficiency. That's all there is to it.

Frankly that's how it should be, one job might be optimally better in a situation but as long as they are reasonably equal in performance to where the job won't make or break the run because of said job then it shouldn't matter. I mean take DRG or MNK in optimal conditions MNK is the higher DPS but in sub-optimal DRG can pull ahead if they know what they're doing.

[Babydoll]

They said they are going to buff other jobs as well...I'm not too worried...yet. >.>

[Solduios]

Funny, there are plenty of parses that say the exact opposite. Sounds like based on a combination of gear and skill, your WAR is better at DPS than your PLD.
The math says they should be equal or PLD in the lead, and there is just as much empirical evidence the opposite (e.g. the 220 DPS on Twintania from BG's off-tank, who is a PLD running Sword Oath for most of the fight and spec'd into STR instead of VIT, with no WAR in party to grant a slashing damage bonus).

Bet warrior who knew what he was doing with same gear as pld would do more auto atk dmg is crap most the dmg comes from weapon skills.

[Solduios]

This is utterly false. in long fights pld's flight or flight is far far greater than that of bezerk as bezerk has 1/2 of the uptime not to mention you lose 2 GCD after bezerk. I also highly doubt your tanks can ever get to 220 dps. In fact our fully geared out mnk very very rarely hit 300 dps and there are no ilv90 dps gear apart from jewels that tank can use.

More false info you can leech beserk effect leaving war able to still weapon skill ... its called cordination try some.