Skillchains/Magicbursts; How they can work in ARR.

Skillchain/Magicburst - This could easily add a bit of depth to playing. How it would work, is player 1 uses a spell or skill, and as a reaction player 2 must also use a skill or spell in a short window. If all goes well, following the second skill an option to SC/MB will proc on a separate hotbar icon much like Limit breaks (or automatically occur without confirming on a proc'd action press). Each job would have one spell or skill that works in conjunction with another job's spell or skill respectively. Here's an example:

-BLM uses Fire3 on the enemy
-PLD uses Rage of Halone 1.5 seconds afterwards
-both players after seeing the Skillchain action proc, hit the action within the 5.5 second window.
-Skillchain "Red Lotus Blade" occurs dealing damage with additional DoT burn effect.

== Ex2 ==

-PLD uses rampart
-WHM uses Aero
-Both proc
-Party gains "Wind Spikes" buff for 15 seconds

== Ex3==

-SCH1 uses physick
-SCH2 also uses physick
-Proc
-"Physickaga" cures entire party a small percentage of HP.

Adding status effects, both beneficial and detrimental, adds another layer to combat. Putting a limit of a 3 minute cool down of skillchaining per player can prevent abusing them, and make players more likely to use them during more important fights, like the boss and sub-boss, as opposed to trash mobs. If stacking certains jobs becomes too prevalent (such as the all OP BRD), removing skill chains with 2 identical jobs and making skill chains worth the different job positions can help with this issue (more of a reason to bring WAR/MNK/DRG to endgame content if their SC made their presence more valuable)."

With the horrible latency problems we have? Impossible.

I would be extremely happy if they added skillchains and magic burst to FFXIV. This is one of the major things I have found lacking in all MMORPG I have played after FFXI -- there is just no interactions between party/raid members outside of healing. Skillchains would make combat far more interesting and engaging and would "solve" the issue of (DPS) players in a party simply moving through their rotation with no need to worry about what anyone else is doing.

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Originally Posted by Lisotte

With the horrible latency problems we have? Impossible.

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With a 6 second window, latency wouldn't effect it that much.

I really miss magic bursts and skill chains...

that was a unique flavour from FFXI, I really hope they bring them back.

I think this could be a good thing

Biotic explosions~

It depends on how it's implemented. Currently the game is built around working out an optimal skill rotation for yourself, which can get hectic if you're a rotation-heavy class like a Monk in a full party where everyone's button smashing. Even if the skillchain effect is enough to compensate for everyone inevitably having to slow down, if my experience in XI taught me anything, it's that pugs and skillchains don't mix well. End-game pugs are already problematic as it is, if we throw in skillchains too I can imagine at least a few people reenacting the Keyboard Crasher kid.

Not saying it shouldn't be done, but right now the game is kind of built to be unfriendly to these kind of features.

Skill chains/magic bursts beats rotation fighting anyday.

Skill chains was the best thing that ever happened to MMO's. I play every new MMO hoping to relive the fun I had in FFXI, largely in part due to skill chains. Even if the system had to be overhauled, I'd gladly welcome them back.

How SE could abandon such a great system they had with SC's and MB's really perplexes me...

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Originally Posted by EmiliM

It depends on how it's implemented. Currently the game is built around working out an optimal skill rotation for yourself, which can get hectic if you're a rotation-heavy class like a Monk in a full party where everyone's button smashing. Even if the skillchain effect is enough to compensate for everyone inevitably having to slow down, if my experience in XI taught me anything, it's that pugs and skillchains don't mix well. End-game pugs are already problematic as it is, if we throw in skillchains too I can imagine at least a few people reenacting the Keyboard Crasher kid.

Not saying it shouldn't be done, but right now the game is kind of built to be unfriendly to these kind of features.

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Ive been thinking about your response, and I think I've come up with a way to not slow down gameplay; if the move that would create the SC would proc blue, it would let the player know that they can create a SC without any prior discussion, so:

-Player A uses "Fire 3".
-As the spell lands, Player B's "Rage of Halone" gets a blue colored proc.
-At this point, the SC action with proc, not going off unless both players hit it.

Obviously this would be more alarming to the player who cast first who wasn't aware the SC would go off, but for the time being I can't think of any way around it. Of course, setting up a macro for it to post text into /p could help too.

Or we can just let FFXI keep its skillchains and magic bursts.

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Originally Posted by Alhanelem

Or we can just let FFXI keep its skillchains and magic bursts.

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You're so dense.

Oh god, don't bring that bullshit from FFXI back. Skillchaining and magic bursting was the stupidest waste of time ever. By the time you complete one skillchain/Magic burst everyone could have gotten off four times as much damage by just spamming what they had when they had it. It crippled FFXI players by handing them a crutch they didn't need but never thought to set aside for years until they realized how stupidly wasteful on the time and sanity it was and did away with it completely. As soon as they did HNMs/Gods/etc started dropping in a matter of minutes instead of hours. No thank you.

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Originally Posted by Marael

Oh god, don't bring that bullshit from FFXI back. Skillchaining and magic bursting was the stupidest waste of time ever. By the time you complete one skillchain/Magic burst everyone could have gotten off four times as much damage by just spamming what they had when they had it. It crippled FFXI players by handing them a crutch they didn't need but never thought to set aside for years until they realized how stupidly wasteful on the time and sanity it was and did away with it completely. As soon as they did HNMs/Gods/etc started dropping in a matter of minutes instead of hours. No thank you.

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I feel like you didn't even read my post; had I called it "combos" what would you have said?

I have played many MMOs and I have to say that the Skillchain/Magic Burst combat system from FFXI has hands-down been the most enjoyable. I truly miss it, even to this day. I was deeply saddened when TP burn parties became the norm... skillchains were really not worth it at that point.

If they do bring it back it will take some careful planning to do right, but I would be very happy if they pulled it off in FFXIV.

Skill spamming/rotations are so... WoW-esqe. It's an outdated mechanic. FFXIV really could use something more exciting. It's not terrible as it works for what it is, but it's surely not innovative or exciting in my opinion. The problem with rotations is once the "best" rotation is known, everyone basically ends up doing the same thing on a given class. Skillchains/Magic Bursts were a good way to break up the monotony of combat.

How do you combine a SC system with ARR's rigid combos? And if it creates little difference to what we're actually doing, why have it at all?

I don't think most PUG groups are going to have trouble with the system--anything that would make it too complicated to be used by PUGs probably aren't going to work with ARR in general or even function decently in a purely SC sense. As far as the window goes, I do have confidence that there's something that could work with little to no delay. You can largely keep the SC as an entity apart that the abilities then feed into to complete, and can be out of order for some amount of leniency. In that way you could also have things that are meant to be more than just a pure order--for example a few abilities opening another stage into which new abilities can be poured to generate aggregate (rather than sequentially unique) effects from their components, or parts that are supposed to go off (nearly) simultaneously.

Small-scale example --> Monk [Shoulder Charge] to the same unit as a near-simultaneous (in other words, either order will work) [Doomlance] followed by a [Howling Fist] will duplicate the Doomlance damage against each enemy hit by both [Doomlance] and [Howling Fist]. | (You can also use this sort of procedure as an 'opening' of its own, which allows for duplication of linear-attacks, or whatnot, within a line of enemies affected from opposite sides.)

How would you systematize its components? Elementally, as in XI? Positionally? By role? Would you involve any geometry in this (same line of attack, opposite sides of mob, facing each other, etc)? How large-scale? How class-combination-specific?

Edit: I'd be happy to see something like this, but I have no attachments to the SC-system specifically. I just want something that can live up to its nostalgia within ARR's own system (not that I'd mind having ARR's core combat mechanics revamped, either, I just don't see that as being very likely). I'd love to be able to combo outside of my own abilities. The current rigid rotations are generally tedious. Whatever is added to it, I hope that it will attempt to remedy some of that tedium without simply making a more intensive and finicky version of the same rigidity.

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Originally Posted by TaalAzura

You're so dense.

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A lot of the XIV community hates XI and everything about it and want it to stay there while defending FFXIV ARR being pretty much a carbon copy of every MMO that came out since 2004.

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Originally Posted by TaalAzura

I feel like you didn't even read my post; had I called it "combos" what would you have said?

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I doubt she played 1.x either because the 1.23 combo system was basically the same concept and same execution, it was just solo - I would really want to see this back as it would give some interaction with this battle system beyond just dodging scripted skills.

Ain't played XI but this reminds me of Tales of Xillia's, Arte Links.
Use a heal, use a wind attack skill. You get a wind healing blast to hurt enemies and heal your PT.
It would make combat much more fun than the crap we got now. Yes it's crap.

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Originally Posted by Marael

By the time you complete one skillchain/Magic burst everyone could have gotten off four times as much damage by just spamming what they had when they had it.

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I just wanna have a fun combat tbh, screw the damage. Fun > Damage. More shiny flashy fun combat.