Marauder (30) + Thaumaturge (15) = Dark Knight

Ok I have been reading a lot of negative things about Warrior, especially in Endgame. Because of this I am seeing very few warriors. I am a new warrior and I think it is great, but I don't wanna get deep into it if I am going to get denied party in lieu of a Paladin for endgame.

This leads me to the main goal for the future of Marauder level 30+:

I think Dark Knight should be implemented as the newest job. It works on many levels:
1) It will be the only combination of DPS magic and tank (Paladin is heal/tank).
2) The storyline between gladiator and marauder shows them as being opposites and quasi-enemies, which makes the Paladin - Dark Knight comparison that much more sweet and fun (i.e light knight and dark knight).
3) More people will choose marauder and can combine the love of magic and attack.

I'm really hoping this is the next patched in job.

OMG i think this is amazing! A few thoughts/concerns:

1) Dark Knight is by far the sweetest job possible, so many players (including noobs) will go after it.

2) It is clearly going to be OP. Will likely need several nerfs.

The magic side of DRK will never be its strength it will always be the melee attacks

The problem is that it's going to feel and play just like a MRD due to its base abilities. They would have to drastically change the rules of their game to allow DRK to be something different than its base class.

Yea but the magic could always be dependant on something other than INT. For example, he could have spells like DEMI, SAP or other attacks that deal solely based on enemy HP and/or regain Tank HP based on those attacks. Or Negative status impacts. Obviously, a lot more thought than this should go into it, but point is that this could have awesome potential and is unique.

Agree with OP. Magic attacks do not need to be based on INT for Dark Knight, just like second wind for example is a heal based on attack power rather than mind.

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Originally Posted by Orophin

The problem is that it's going to feel and play just like a MRD due to its base abilities. They would have to drastically change the rules of their game to allow DRK to be something different than its base class.

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I don't think the change would be required at all. Otherwise, we couldn't have SMN and SCH from arcanist.

I think for DRK to tank, you would want stat-absorption spells rather than focusing on damage spellcasting (Drain-STR, Drain-VIT, etc....and just Drain for HP). Also, toss in Dark Spikes for health stealing.

They could simple make a DRK stance that would cancel the emnity part of the skills and buff the dmg with 5 - 10%? Just like the warriors use stances now.

For those interested in more info from previous Final Fantasy appearances.

http://finalfantasy.wikia.com/wiki/Dark_Knight

SOULEATER! This makes me miss FF4 so badly

Oh and ya its not going to be a Tank class. It will be the DPS choice for MRD.

Each class is going to get a support and damage style or hybrid style option I would guess at some point.

They would have to make a new base class like a Soldier 2h sword for it to advance from(could also serve as a base for Samurai?) but yeah I see where you're going with this. Also based on Casper's wiki link, lore wise they would be DPS and not a tank, sacrificing health to deal massive damage would be suicide as a tank.

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The Dark Knight is characterized by wearing tight, sometimes enclosed black armor and wielding a sword steeped in wicked powers. Their physical stats, with exception of Defense, are usually high, but their other stats depend on the game they appear in. The typical Dark Knight ability is Souleater, also known as Darkness, which allows them to sacrifice their HP to perform stronger attacks.

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Either way WTB Dark Knight Job!

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Originally Posted by Soulburn32

Oh and ya its not going to be a Tank class. It will be the DPS choice for MRD.

Each class is going to get a support and damage style or hybrid style option I would guess at some point.

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For pure DPS it would need something to counter-balance the base skills inherent hate generators. Otherwise you'll be a pain in the ass for tanks.

Regardless, I think stat-stealing abilities would still be nice for Dark Knight. I enjoyed them back when Thaumaturge used to have them. Gives a buff to the player and a debuff to the mob.

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Originally Posted by Soulburn32

Oh and ya its not going to be a Tank class. It will be the DPS choice for MRD.

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It depends entirely upon the way they choose to implement it. They haven't done a 2h sword class, which is a bit more thematically appropriate for Dark Knight than an axe. If they give Dark Knight a new base class (the name I'd go with is "Reaper"), I fully expect DRK to be a tank class: heavy armor, high durability, and hit hp are all hallmarks of Dark Knight in every iteration of it except for FFXI.

The only way I'd expect to see Dark Knight as a DPS class is if they go more for the "Knight" side of things and attach it to Gladiator, to act as a DPS counterpart to PLD.

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Each class is going to get a support and damage style or hybrid style option I would guess at some point.

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I fully agree, though I doubt "support" is ever going to get anything more than a sidebar role attached to certain jobs. At most, I'd expect to see base classes to get a DPS job and either a tank or healer job.

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Originally Posted by C-croft

I don't think the change would be required at all. Otherwise, we couldn't have SMN and SCH from arcanist.

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I think I was going more along the lines of do you think SE and the playerbase would be willing to settle for a 2nd job based off MRD that plays almost identically apart from the job abilities that WAR has? DRK is a pretty iconic job and I wouldn't want to have the exact same weapon skills as WAR has for the most part.

I too agree that any new jobs added will most likely be associate with a new class and new weapon as a base. It would be natural for Dark Knight and Samurai to be based off of a common 2H Sword class. I don't think they intend for new jobs to be unlocked to max potential upon obtaining a soul crystal.

This is the same reason I believe a stealth like class is currently missing as it will serve as the base class for Ninja and Thief e.g. A class called Rogue that uses Double weapon sets.

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Originally Posted by Depaul225

This leads me to the main goal for the future of Marauder level 30+:

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Paladin is 30GLD/15CNJ, Dark Knight will most likely be GLD30/15THM, paladin is a tank, and dark knight will be dps.

I really doubt marauder will get dark knight it will get something else.

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Originally Posted by Size

It would be natural for Dark Knight and Samurai to be based off of a common 2H Sword class. I don't think they intend for new jobs to be unlocked to max potential upon obtaining a soul crystal.

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I doubt that. A base class just for Dark Knight will likely be based off of 2h-sword, but I doubt Samurai would use the same one. I would expect whatever base class is for Samurai, it'll use Katanas as a separate weapon category, if only because the animations would be so different that it wouldn't make sense otherwise. The devs have pretty much said that they're fully capable of creating disparate categories of weapons that are effectively the same in real life, and I would expect them to follow through on something like that.

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Originally Posted by Kitru

I doubt that. Dark Knight will likely be based off of 2h-sword, but I doubt Samurai would use the same one. I would expect whatever base class is for Samurai, it'll use Katanas as a separate weapon category, if only because the animations would be so different that it wouldn't make sense otherwise. The devs have pretty much said that they're fully capable of creating disparate categories of weapons that are effectively the same in real life, and I would expect them to follow through on something like that.

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I think dark knight is going to be dual wield based off gladiator. Just my guess but i bet you.

dark knight will surely come from a new class, 2h sword user. will allow them to add new skill and a different feeling instead to try to make it come from other class

I am not sure why Dark knight should come from marauder..when gld with cnj is Knight of lights ^^

I don't think adding new tank job is a good idea right now.
First, because fixing WAR (why would you give a new tank job to MRD instead of just fixing the existing one ?) is a priority.
Second, because the game is designed around the fact that most "end game" content is supposed to require 2 tanks.

Right now, with the exception of Coil, everything is solo-tankable and people often doesn't want a second tank, thus two issues :

- Harder to find a party (finding a party for Titan HM on my serv is really difficult for a tank for exemple)
- It's a pain in the ass for the tank sometime. Take CM, every DPS want only one tank (mainly because a huge majority of them are bad and can't do their job properly, so they want one more to cover for that) and that's it. Well, as a tank, I dislike solo tanking this place. Farming it isn't verry fun in the first place, but having to solo tank it is just an horrible thing I'd say. There's no room for having fun, you gotta run everywhere to gather adds asap because the -solo- healer isn't smart enough to wait a couple GCD and pull aggro instantly, gets one shot and its a wipe. People want to gain 30 sec with another bad DPS in the group but often can't deal with the second boss and wipe one or two times and ends up losing more time, at the cost of the tank's fun.

And most people you're being teamed with through duty finder are beginner or people that, I suspect, got so much flack for being plained bad in PUG that they decided to run it through DF. So I have two option, running everything as a solo tank, and it's sometime not fun at all, or go with the duty finder and get teamed with bad people/jerk/... It's not a big deal, but when you have to run this place over 120 times to get your accs, it ends up getting frustrating.

So yeah, add more DPS job (easier to play since the already really easy one seems to be too hard for a wide majority of people) and lots of healer job since we seriously lack in that part. This will draw attention on them and fill those empty rank with a really easy solution.

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Originally Posted by Kaalan

So yeah, add more DPS job (easier to play since the already really easy one seems to be too hard for a wide majority of people) and lots of healer job since we seriously lack in that part. This will draw attention on them and fill those empty rank with a really easy solution.

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Honestly, the tank population is actually a *lot* smaller than the DPS or healer populations. Try queuing up for anything as a role other than tank and you will wait *forever*. I've yet to have *any* problems finding a spot in a group as a tank, less so than any DPS or healer, so I honestly don't think that there's much of an argument that there's too many tanks. Quite the opposite, in fact.

Of course, it's not entirely due to the ratio of classes. The distribution across them is nowhere near equal. Even if there were 12 tank classes and 3 DPS classes, you'd still see a lot more DPS than DPS is simply a more popular role. The same with healing. Adding new classes doesn't appreciably modify the ratio of roles (in the long term; in the short term, there's a spike in whatever new class is played but it normalizes after the novelty wears off in 1-2 months).

Honestly, I think this would be a good time for SE to buck the trend when it comes to "same class/weapon" requirements. Why not just make it so you have to equip a two-handed sword on MRD to go into Dark Knight mode? I know right now all classes are set up so crystals activate the jobs, but there is zero reason why they can't change that up on new jobs(i.e. crystal AND weapon change) besides a little more modeling and animations.

I mean look at guild wars 2--each class has like 2-5 different weapons they can equip :P It may be "set in stone" now, but there is absolutely no reason to think it has to stay that way. Even base class weapon attacks would only need some retooled animations to work.

I think that DRK will be more of a GLD option and SAM will be a MAR option.

MRD is a perfect base class for DRK. It already has a number of health absorption abilities to help offset the assumed cost of souleater and even has solid non-threat generating combos that do solid damage on their own. DRK could also have a "DPS" stance (similar to WARs definance) that negates any additional enmity bonuses. MRD/THM with LNC cross class abilities would be great.

But if either MRD or GLD were base classes for DRK, then it wouldn't make much sense to have DRK be a tank class. Both of those base classes already have tank jobs they branch into. Having GLD or MRD branch into another tank job is redundant. Much like SMN branches into DPS or heals, classes should branch into jobs that cover two different roles to provide better options for that base class.

If we're getting a new tank job, it should probably come from a new or different class. LNC -> SAM has been brought up as a decent idea for a tank, for instance.

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Originally Posted by Darkstride

For pure DPS it would need something to counter-balance the base skills inherent hate generators. Otherwise you'll be a pain in the ass for tanks.

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This shouldn't be an issue, seeing that MRD's abilities don't have solid threat mechanics until you get Defiance from the WAR soul crystal. You could turn off the threat modifiers for the BB combo and such and add a damage bonus (Foresight would also have to be changed).

The only issue I'd have is that DRK was pretty much swords/great swords (not counting XI and it's weird thing with scythes). I don't really like the idea of a DRK using a G-axe but try to remain open minded.

If they design DK to be anything like how PLD works then he will probably never use his black magic abilities. PLD white magic is so bad in this game they might as well not even have access to them.

If I get to wear a Batman costume I'm all up for it.

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Originally Posted by Kal-El

If I get to wear a Batman costume I'm all up for it.

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Superman wants to wear a Batman costume? (o.O)

I can feel my brain melting :P

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Originally Posted by caspergrey

Superman wants to wear a Batman costume? (o.O)

I can feel my brain melting :P

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Fancy a change :)

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Originally Posted by caspergrey

Superman wants to wear a Batman costume? (o.O)

I can feel my brain melting :P

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This has been done before. :O