Summoner tips?

When running AK I find I usually top the hate list against trash with a simple rotation:

Shadow Flare > Bio II > Miasma > Bio > Bane > Fester > Thunder > Ruin until Fester is back up

I don't know if that's optimal but it seems to work well enough

However my problem comes in boss fights. Once I get past the initial opening my DPS really seems to suffer. I'm not sure how to keep up continuous damage. I feel like I waste too much time reapplying dots too early, not sure when to use Shadow Flare or not, whether Miasma II is worth using, when to use Thunder etc. I also tend to get flustered and caught up in dodging boss mechanics and I quickly fall to 8 on the hate list

So any tips would be totally awesome

DoTs first then shadow flare for AoE.

Here is a general starting rotation:
Bio II+Obey(so the pet starts attacking while you're casting) -> Miasma -> Bio -> Fester during GCD(make sure to delay it a little more until the Bio debuff is present) -> Shadow Flare -> Thunder -> Ruin -> Ruin II -> Raging Strikes+Fester during GCD -> Bio -> Thunder -> Miasma -> Bio II -> Miasma II -> Fester+Rouse During GCD-> Bio -> Contagion+Spur during GCD-> Ruin -> Ruin II -> Enkindle during GCD -> Shadow Flare

After that you have to let the DoTs wear off completely because you can't overwrite a RS+DoT with a normal DoT, so then just proceed to keep DoTs up(I try my best to clip between 1-0 on timer). Use Ruin II when you want to use Rouse/Spur(should be on CD, but don't use until after that initial rotation. No time.). The way to maximize DPS is to maximize DoT uptime, and Fester usage.


Always start with Bio II -> Miasma -> Bio.

Miasma II is ONLY useful for single target when you use Contagion, and it's not always viable due to mana costs. Shadow Flare doesn't get any benefit from RS so there's no reason to refresh the timer during RS.

This is a general, safe, starting rotation. If you want to push timers, you can use the Ruin/Ruin II at the end of RS after the Bio, but before Thunder -> Miasma. There's ways to min/max it further, but this is the safest way for everything to fall in timers and keep a good rotation going.

I try with Thunder-Miasma-Bio-Bio Ii-Fester/Bane-Contagion. If a lot of mobs gather in one place, Tri-disaster - Shadow Flare. Even if after this rotation, you get aggro, at least they are bind thanks to Tri-disaster, so back off and let the tank get aggro back.

The above mentioned rotation from lion king is quite wrong. Always start with your dots that have the longest time first. Why your starting with thunder is beyond me.

I am using Macro by the way, so things could be different at your end. And purely because I want to maximize the duration of Bio, Bio II and Miasma for Bane. After I have finish my initial rotation, and probably one Rune if I am fast enough, Thunder DoTs is just about to run out, like 3s left, enough for me to repeat my rotation to keep 100% uptime DoT. Why you want to start with Dots that have the longest time but not the shortest time? What is your rotation?

Because then you'd spend more time refreshing your dots, and less time using a filler like ruin to increase your dps. Or, if movement is required on the fight, the more dots that you have rolling at once, the higher your damage will be, even if you are unable to cast while avoiding AOE attacks on a fight like Titan or Ifrit.

Hypothetical scenario, you can only cast 1 spell, and then you have to spend an equal amount of time moving.

If you do your rotation, you will not be able to cast Bio 2 or Fester until 30 seconds into the fight, because Thunder will have already faded before you even got to Bio 2, and then you'd have to reapply Bio 1, because it'd be fading at the same time... So at this point, 44 seconds have elapsed before you cast your "first" fester...

My rotation for a single target mob is:

Bio II > Miasma > Thunder > Bio > Fester > filler (usually Ruin except for the occasional Ruin II for blind) > refresh DoTs as needed, repeat.

The reason I use Thunder before Bio is because I figure if I'm going to have to wait on the GCD anyway, I'd rather the Thunder+Bio be 'closer' together in time left. (Since Thunder takes time to cast and Bio is instant, if you cast Bio first, Thunder will be a few seconds behind.) Please note, Thunder deals damage and also adds a DoT effect. Bio is simply a DoT, so the effects are comparable even if you are waiting for Thunder to cast.

If you are in a rush to cast Fester right away, you can always follow the typical "Bio II > Miasma > Bio" pattern others have listed, but keep in mind that if you use Fester on cooldown without using any other charges, you will still need to wait for Aetherflow to come back up before being able to Fester again... So doing it my way is never 'wasted' DPS. This is just personal preference, so it's really up to you... I thought I'd give you insight into why I do it this way, though.

For the pet... Unless you want to save your Enkindle for a strategic time, I generally pop all pet cooldowns (Rouse+Spur, followed by Enkindle) at the start of a boss fight to get the recast timers rolling right away for maximum DPS. If you are fighting a boss like Titan, you'll want to save this combination of abilities for the Heart... but you CAN pop Rouse periodically since the cooldown is so short... and you should. Feel it out.

For adds, I will get my DoTs up and Bane them to other targets before throwing Shadow Flare down. The reason I do this is because I want to give the tank time to position the mobs before throwing down a ground AoE. Also, I don't think Shadow Flare DPS is as important as the ticks of all the other DoTs going off first. If your tank is well-equipped and skilled, they will be able to handle this. If not, go easy on the DPS and throw down Shadowflare to buy you some time before spreading all DoTs.

You can also run up and Miasma II the mobs after Shadow Flare if you so choose, pulling out the maximum amount of DoTs you can. It costs a decent amount of mana, but mana really isn't an issue while killing trash. If there are a LOT of mobs, Tri-Disaster is sensible, but only if there are a LOT... otherwise single-target nuke until you need to refresh/spread DoTs again. When refreshing DoTs, always refresh and spread the DoTs from a target with high HP. If you choose a target with low HP, you might not get to spread before the target dies... wasted time :D

Kevee's comment above reminded me of this...

Note: whether you are casting Bane or Fester, you must wait a split second after your last DoT is up (usually Bio) before using the ability... because if you do it TOO soon, that DoT won't count in your DoT spread or you won't be able to get the max DPS from Fester. It's silly and frustrating but you'll get used to it.

/ac "Thunder" <t>
/wait 2.5
/ac "Miasma" <t>
/wait 2.5
/ac "Bio" <t>
/wait 2.5
/ac "Bio II" <t>

That is my macro rotation. I activate my Aetherflow between waiting time of Miasma and Bio. Bio is there for a purpose, to give me time to activate any Instant Skill not be affected by GCD such as Aetherflow. Then after my Bio II done, I use Bane/Fester. The whole thing is done in 15 sec. This rotation only be used when it is safe to not move. And I have different macro for the fight that requires moving.

Why have people not learned yet that any macro with /wait is a dps loss?

/wait will round up your 2.5 into 3. Furthermore, I doubt that you have exactly 2.5 GCD, it will be closer to 2.43 or so depending on gear with skill speed.

Also why would you need a macro like that when you don't refresh your dots at the same time?

Also, you should bio before thunder to make advantage of fester/bane 1 GCD ahead, which lets you fit in a second fester before RS ends if you are doing your RS dot rotation.

Also shadowflare is a dps and utility increase single target, as it does more dps than ruin by a long shot as long as the target stand still for at least 12-15 seconds. It also has a chance to slow the boss, which is always a good thing.

I'm not sure why thunder would be top of your rotation, as it is not spreadable with bane nor does it let you fester earlier.

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Originally Posted by LionKing

That is my macro rotation. I activate my Aetherflow between waiting time of Miasma and Bio. Bio is there for a purpose, to give me time to activate any Instant Skill not be affected by GCD such as Aetherflow. Then after my Bio II done, I use Bane/Fester. The whole thing is done in 15 sec.

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I'm not understanding why you start with low cooldown DoTs..... You start with Bio II because it has a cast time and lasts the longest. You then follow up with Miasma because it has the 2nd longest duration. Third is Bio because it is instant and lasts the shortest amount of time. With this rotation, you get 2 Festers in without the need to refresh any DoTs. If you start with a short duration DoT you need to refresh it faster to keep all of them running for Fester.

You should be using Aetherflow before fights even start. And every time you use your last charge or when it is up. There's really no need to wait to fit it into a rotation.

I used the macro rotation and I think it does not round up to 3s. As soon as I finish casting thunder which is 2.5s casting time, it follows immediately with Miasma, no delay between two skills. I don't know how it is for you but that is how I see it. And I do refresh them all at the same time, the order of skill has been made after I tested different skill's order and by far, that give me 100% uptime on DoTs with no DoTs run-out before it is refreshed.

Make sense Darkstrike, however the downside of it is you can not keep 100% uptime on Bio and Miasma because by the time you come back, the duration has run out like 2-3s before they are re-caster. I don't know which will give more Dps, though. I will give it a try with your rotation.

I don't want to activate Aetherflow in advance because you are full MP at the start? I use it as a mana restore, and Energy drain to keep my mana in check. Why would I want to activate it when my Mp is full and it does not boost my dams at all?

good job lionking people think your serious 7/10 troll

Wait what? I am seriously want to know more.Who are you to judge me as troll? Sure my rotation is different. Since when having different opinion and reason is marked as troll? Please don't start a context war.

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Originally Posted by Ryuko

My rotation for a single target mob is:

Bio II > Miasma > Thunder > Bio > Fester > filler (usually Ruin except for the occasional Ruin II for blind) > refresh DoTs as needed, repeat.
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This person knows what he/she is talking about, that is my exact same rotation. Just switched from my MNK(wasted myths getting him +1) to my SMN and loving the class a lot more. It kinda sad that people thought SMN had bad DPS just a few weeks ago. With a Gurada wep v my MNK +1 and darklight I'm pretty sure they pull about the same DPS. Fester is just plan amazing, Bane/Shadow Fury, Misama gives SMN insane AOE dmg, DOTs/Pet DMG give them great single target DPS and knowing while you move you're still doing dmg AND you still have Ruin II to toss out. Great class and well designed by SE

A good rule of thumb is never cast Bio by itself, it should always followed by a casted spell unless its trash or adds but even then a Thunder to a Bio works really nicely since Thunder does some initial dmg. Has anyone found a reason to ever use Ifit over Garada? She seems to be the best with a little pet control and has a godly 4th ability.

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Originally Posted by LionKing

I don't want to activate Aetherflow in advance because you are full MP at the start? I use it as a mana restore, and Energy drain to keep my mana in check. Why would I want to activate it when my Mp is full and it does not boost my dams at all?

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You want to use Aetherflow before the fight because it lets you start with 3 stacks and the cd on it already running or already done so you can get more Festers in within the first minute than you would get if you didn't start with the stacks already up.

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Originally Posted by Spythe

A good rule of thumb is never cast Bio by itself, it should always followed by a casted spell

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There's no reason to ever think/do this.

Always start Bio II -> Miasma -> Bio.

Always.

Period.

There is no reason to delay Bio, and subsequently Fester/Bane and the next Aetherflow.



What do you think you're gaining by doing Thunder->Bio and not Bio->Thunder? You're still applying 1 DoT/GCD and they're the same total potency, but doing Bio first allows you to use other abilities sooner.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by LionKing

I don't want to activate Aetherflow in advance because you are full MP at the start? I use it as a mana restore, and Energy drain to keep my mana in check. Why would I want to activate it when my Mp is full and it does not boost my dams at all?

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You activate Aetherflow in advance so you have 3 stacks at the beginning of the fight.

As a Bard that decided to roll summoner as an off-class for our coil group that's up to turn 5, I've been gearing it up, Going from what Kevee has been saying for a Rotation I can already see how what he/she says is optimal for GCD min-maxing, Did Ifrit with Full Demagogue with HQ level 49 Jewelry and a Grand Company level 50 Summoning book, against a Semi-Darklight summoner with a Normal relic, I set him to focus target to see how he would play, he opens with Thunder before bio wasting GCD's and being inconsistent with his Rotations by refreshing too early, I managed to out DPS him by a full 100k, and even replaying the fight back to watch EVERY cast he did in order, All in all I find it a serious DPS loss to waste GCD opportunities.

TLDR, Ask yourself, if someone is claiming their Rotation is superior, give it a try instead of being stubborn

Edit: I've played Summoner at level 50 for less then 5hours practicing Kevee's Rotation as he/she is a well known Summoner.

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Originally Posted by NekoTheCat

Going from what Kevee has been saying for a Rotation I can already see how what he/she says is optimal for GCD min-maxing,

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And like I said in the post, that's the general safe way to get all your timers working.

If you want to min/max further you can move around the ruin/ruin II during RS if you know you have time to cast everything, you can use one of the pet CDs earlier(during the first Bio), etc. That's something I need to work on doing, but generally in a fight like Titan or Turn 2 of Coil, I'm fine with executing the general rotation. That's my current issue is that I have put that general starting rotation into my "muscle memory," even though I know in some circumstances I can move the abilities around to get 1-2 extra DoT ticks.

I accept there are improvements to be made. In some instances, it's also better to Swiftcast Shadowflare as it shaves ~.5s off total time. There's little things you can do to improve.

Edit: And something to note if you're pushing timers. Bio/Bio II have animation lag. Roughly .5-1s after the cast/finished cast. Miasma is near-instant after the cast, and Thunder has travel time, but is near-instant to the projectile hitting. There is a delay between when a debuff completely drops off, and when you can re-apply it. It seems to be a ~.5s window of sorts. If miasma is dropping off(say, from RS), you want to start casting in between the 1-2s timer of DoT left on the mob. Bio II you can start casting end of ~2s on timer. Remember, when it says 2 is left on the timer, that is anywhere from 2.99~s to 2s left.

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Originally Posted by Kevee

There's no reason to ever think/do this.

Always start Bio II -> Miasma -> Bio.

Always.

Period.

There is no reason to delay Bio, and subsequently Fester/Bane and the next Aetherflow.

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Because doing Thunder to a Bio makes the timer line up perfectly instead of having Bio ending before Thunder. You can do Bio after Miasma then a Thunder to a Fester but at that point its only a 2-3s difference in getting the fester off quicker. I just like the Thunder being linked to Bio which may be a personally preference but it just makes the job play smoother imo. Whenever I have to recast Bio Thunder always comes first, it just easier for me to keep track of dots that way, the other way I found I was forgetting to cast Thunder sometimes which is a must. You can get off to Fester before you have to reply apply Miasma/Bio again, I also manually control my Garuda so pushing the dots 15s is never an issue.

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Originally Posted by Spythe

snip

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Well if it's a personal issue/preference, that's fine.

You even acknowledge the time difference.

Have my LIKE.

I see a lot of times people said Thunder is not worth using. To me, I see it is worth it since I can manage my mana pool. Don't know what others think?

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Originally Posted by LionKing

I see a lot of times people said Thunder is not worth using. To me, I see it is worth it since I can manage my mana pool. Don't know what others think?

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Use Thunder.

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Originally Posted by Kevee

Well if it's a personal issue/preference, that's fine.

You even acknowledge the time difference.

Have my LIKE.

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Thanks for the like and I only been playing a SMN at 50 for a day so still getting use to it may change up the rotation later down the line. What do you suggest for adds that don't have much life? Full row of dots to a fester or half dots to ruin spam?

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Originally Posted by Spythe

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Can you give an example of low-HP adds?

Only thing I can think of is Garuda, and for that(if you even kill the feathers), you should have a higher timer so you can Bane right as they spawn.

Maybe the first boss in AK? Bane the DoTs on the Golems if you can, if you can't Thunder-> Miasma -> Ruin Spam. Make sure to use OBEY so your pet helps.

Demon Wall? Should be able to Bane on to the Gnats. If not(and if you have a melee LBing one of them since you don't have enough DPS to ignore them), Obey your pet on to the one that is being LB'd on, start putting your full DoTs on the other.

For last boss of AK I always tell whoever else is in the party to ignore the add, as it's best for SMN to take care of it(full rotation of DoTs), as we will still have DoTs rolling on the boss anyways.

if you have vent, and you guys are raiding harder content (which means there's usually a countdown), always hard cast shadowflare during the countdown when the situation allows it. right when the tank is counting down from ''3 2 1''.

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Originally Posted by Kevee

Can you give an example of low-HP adds?

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Guess the only fight I can think of would be in Praetorium speed runs, 2 bosses have small adds with barely any HP so its not worth putting up a full set of dots but you still want to do dmg to them. Coil up to turn 2, the only thing I can think about is the oozes which are extremely risky to dot in the first place and probably not the best idea to have a SMN do them. I guess its really not a big deal til they add more content or move from Praetorium bosses to HMs.

Think I'm just link Thunder to Miasma II for trash and when I have Contagion up.

Ah got 1, the stone jail on Titan.

If you have a fester (and you should, because you can anticipate the gaols), you should always 3 set the dots and then fester, then move into ruin spam.

Assuming the add lasts 10 seconds,

Ruin spam : 80 p/gcd, 320 p
Bio->ruin spam : 120p + 240p = 360p
Bio->Bio2->ruin spam : 120p + 70p + 160p = 350p
Bio->Bio2->fester (or Bio2->bio|fester)->ruin spam : 120 + 70 + 200 + 160 = 550p
Bio2->Miasma->bio|fester->ruin: 105 + 90 + 40 + 300 + 80 = 615p

And that is with unlucky (lowest possible) number of ticks.

So full rack of dots + fester is almost double the potency of ruin spam itself, and a half rack of dots is about the same, better if it dies sub 8 or so seconds. Furthermore, if it lasts more than 10 seconds, obviously more dots is more dps.

You shouldn't need to keep your attention on the gaol for longer than it takes to fester once, and maybe ruin->ruin2 to finish off that 10 seconds.