What's the "best" AoE classes in the game for specific situations?

First things first, I know there are a lot of specific elements to consider, such as possibly having Bards in your party to regenerate TP/MP, or how long the encounter lasts (20s encounter vs 200s encounter will have drastically different results), what level of gearing you are for the content, etc.

Taking that all into consideration, what do you feel the best AoE classes are for dungeon runs, for Bahamut's Coil Turn 4, and just in general bursting down adds? Playing a BLM, I know my AoE capabilities are strong both in burst and in sustained, but I don't know about how other classes stack up, especially with nigh-infinite TP. What kind of Potency Per Second can the classes boast for AoE?

Bard and blm

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Originally Posted by Astralis

Bard and blm

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No, this is completely incorrect.

Bard - Rain - potency of 100 that reduces enemies damage (so it's good _utility_) but has a whopping 200 TP cost which will quickly make the bard run out if spammed.
A Fire AOE over time with a potency of 35 per tick (each 3 seconds). Their level 50 wide volley with a potency of 110 and 160 TP cost which makes it easier to spam and sometimes makes the 100 potency one free.

Dragoon - RoT - Potency 100 but only 120 TP cost so is much easier to spam. Doom Spike which has to be in a "line" but thats easy when mobs get clumped up on one tank with a potency of 160. Lastly, Dragonfire dive which is a whopping 250 potency though it can only be used every 3 minutes. Our spammable abilities are far more powerful AOE than bards, and in fact are probably more powerful than BLM because BLM has to switch off of Astral Fire to restore their mana so can't spam constantly.

Not to mention that Dragoons also have a superior Invigorate which restores 500 TP, and as any non-spellcaster knows spamming AOE does actually drain our TP which bards have a much larger cost for their abilities anyway

SMN/SCH and BLM.

Melees and Bards are just inferior in AoE.

To be fair monk burst aoe is pretty good if you have perfect balance available. Rockbreaker is 150 (?) potency and you can keep 36% worth of damage buffs up. Howling fists is 170 potency instant too so ...

Normally pretty crappy though.

Summoner AoE is 135 potency every 3 seconds, or 112.5 potency every GCD.

Miasma II adds another ~10 potency every GCD, and tri disaster if you don't have thunder is another 20 potency every GCD.

If there are few enough targets (5 or less) that you can tab target thunder, thats another ~30 potency every GCD.

So around 140 potency every GCD, whether you are tab thundering for <5 targets, or miasma2 + tri disaster for more than 5 targets.

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Originally Posted by 0caid0

To be fair monk burst aoe is pretty good if you have perfect balance available. Rockbreaker is 150 (?) potency and you can keep 36% worth of damage buffs up. Howling fists is 170 potency instant too so ...

Normally pretty crappy though.

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Aoe isn't even a viable option for monk. Howling Fist is strong but no where near spamable. Arm of the destroyer looks pretty, but is a joke at 50 potency.

Depending on perfect balance to use rockbreaker doesn't count. Even if using perfect balance, you get what, 3 uses and done? I don't understand why you need to combo to use an aoe move.

Think about it, adds pop out of no where and you need to quickly kill them all, it doesn't make sense that you need to combo into an aoe. They should make it like other aoe's and allow monks to use it freely, and just have a higher tp cost. Either that, or make perfect balance's cool down a lot shorter.

PB is 10 seconds - so you have time for 4-5 GCD's in that time. That is comparable/better than any other class for that 10 second period.

Our burst is lacking when it's down but I don't think every class should be the same? If you gave everyone the same potency and same cd aoe attacks it may be balanced but what do you lose in response?

Rockbreaker is probably one of the most resource effecient AoE available, if a fight required aoe over a long period a Monk might be superior to the classes. I don't believe any other class has an AoE silence - there may be no encounters that need it now but there may be mechanics that require a monk or that a monk would make much easier later one.

Hmm pretty sure bard and blm comes off the top of aoe list. Havent checked drg and other classes. But when me and my group are running cm. With 4blm and 3brds we finish it within 18mins while havinh a drg we finish it by 20mins so i think aoe and dps wise bard is better. They have bigger range.

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Originally Posted by enil

if a fight required aoe over a long period a Monk might be superior to the classes.

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Am I being punk'd? Superior to other classes in aoe? Rockbreaker has a short aoe radius. It's combo dependent, spamable only if perfect balance happens to be available . Arm of destroyer is weak. Howling Fist is use-able once in a blue moon. Meanwhile my bard has 3 aoes that I can spam freely with NO restrictions or pre-requirements, with higher damage potency. On top of that, they benefit each other when using them.

No one is saying to make every class the same. There is just certain things that don't make sense or need a boost in functionality.

Arm of the destroyer costs 130 TP, the damage potency should be higher then 50. If the potency was at least 100, it would make it a viable option for monks to use when there is a ton of adds that need to be burned down quickly, instead of jumping from one mob to the other trying to get them down individually.

lawl at anyone who thinks there is comparison between BLM AOE and anyone else. It does not matter if the AOE is needed for short period or long period, BLM are kings when it comes to AOE.

Earlier today in AK speed run I did 3.5k-4k~ dmg within 5 seconds on grouped up trash mobs, with each eating a massive crit from Flare (2.4k~) followed by another swift cast Flare for 1.2k~ non crit.

In turn 4 at the start of it I hit the bugs for 450+ each using fire II and around 670~ when it crits. I don't know why would anyone even think it is possible for Monk or Bards to top that.

Bards are widely prefered in aoe runs as well mainly because of their spammable arrow shower with a huge radius. But in terms of dmg ofcourse blm will always be on top in aoe


Actually i forgot to add the only class who can contend to a blm's aoe.
Those white mages with holy. The holy dmg is freaking strong. My white mage friend deals 500-600 per holy and it has stun.

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Originally Posted by Zenmaku

Dragoon - RoT - Potency 100 but only 120 TP cost so is much easier to spam. Doom Spike which has to be in a "line" but thats easy when mobs get clumped up on one tank with a potency of 160. Lastly, Dragonfire dive which is a whopping 250 potency though it can only be used every 3 minutes. Our spammable abilities are far more powerful AOE than bards, and in fact are probably more powerful than BLM because BLM has to switch off of Astral Fire to restore their mana so can't spam constantly.

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Cool story, but you also forgot to mention we also have Flaming Arrow a pulsating no cost aoe dot on the floor. Not to mention Wide Volley has a 15 % chance to make Rain free and Rain has a 15% chance to make Quick Nock free. Not counting RNG, Flaming Arrow + Quicker Nock are more TP/DMG efficient than your spells.

The encounter's type of AoE is largely going to determine who is best between Bard, Summoner, and BLM. If they're clumped up and low HP, the BLM is going to win out. If they're spread out so that the Bard's extra range is hitting more things, obviously he wins. If the adds are going to survive a while, namely long enough for the BLM to need to go into regeneration mode, AND the Summoner can prepare a little bit (dropping Shadow Flare, getting up close to pop Miasma II, already having the 3 spreadable DoT's ticking, etc.) then the SMN wins.

Honestly as long as the SMN can prepare to AoE and Bane will actually spread the love to everything (IE they need to be damned close) there's nothing that's going to stack up to that. W/ just an Ifrit book my 3 DoT's + Flare do 400 damage every 3s and I'm freely able to nuke and do other things during this time. It is just EXTREMELY rare that the stars all align in any given scenario for a SMN to beat a BLM. In general though, BLM > SMN > BRD > lolEverythingElse for most scenarios.

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Originally Posted by Zenmaku

Dragoon - RoT - Potency 100 but only 120 TP cost so is much easier to spam. Doom Spike which has to be in a "line" but thats easy when mobs get clumped up on one tank with a potency of 160. Lastly, Dragonfire dive which is a whopping 250 potency though it can only be used every 3 minutes.

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This. Dragoons can spam for 160 Potency every GCD and dmg can further be improved with Heavy Thrust (can be kept up all of the time, you'll just have to sacrifice a GCD to renew the buff) and Blood for Blood (Off-GCD dmg buff). I expect Dragoons to be very competitive in terms of AoE DPS, once the mobs are all clumped together.

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Originally Posted by pandabearcat

So around 140 potency every GCD, whether you are tab thundering for <5 targets, or miasma2 + tri disaster for more than 5 targets.

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140 potency per GCD with fancy tab targetting? I guess you missed the point where Dragoons can spam for 160 potency every GCD with the ability to put buffs and off-GCD AoE Skills on top of that.

Surprisingly... White Mage has a viable aoe in Holy. I use it in castrum and it deals over 580ish damage normally and stuns. When it crits I've seen over 900 on each. Not sure how it compares to other AoEs but as far as situation use, it's pretty high effectiveness for stunning mobs or hammering down smaller mobs during bosses.


Edit: That is if you switch on cleric stance, mind you.

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Originally Posted by NeoAmon

Earlier today in AK speed run I did 3.5k-4k~ dmg within 5 seconds on grouped up trash mobs, with each eating a massive crit from Flare (2.4k~) followed by another swift cast Flare for 1.2k~ non crit.

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^ This. BLM is unbeatable in AoE.

Specific situations?

Garuda = Summoner.

Raging Strikes + all DoTs and Shadowflare on Garuda. As soon as adds are about to pop, you set Tri-Disaster to bind and keep them from scattering. Bane to spread the DoT love. Adds dead.

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Originally Posted by Vodomir

140 potency per GCD with fancy tab targetting? I guess you missed the point where Dragoons can spam for 160 potency every GCD with the ability to put buffs and off-GCD AoE Skills on top of that.

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Sorry, in case I wasn't being clear, I wasn't attempting to actually say which class was better.

Just wanted to throw out some numbers.

Also, dragoon weapon damage is roughly 70% of caster classes, making casters (because of no autoattack correction on multitargets) much better at it.

This is something you need to consider.

Also, I've never seen anyone top BLM burst with Flare, so I'm going to go with BLM. I've also never had trash mobs stay alive long enough that burst isn't viable.

On top of that, caster classes are the only ones that can consistently AoE without running out of resource...tp is bad and in prolonged situations you will run dry (hell it doesn't even have to be very prolonged, in 8 wide volley's a bard is dry, 3 more with invig).

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Originally Posted by Darkstride

Specific situations?

Garuda = Summoner.

Raging Strikes + all DoTs and Shadowflare on Garuda. As soon as adds are about to pop, you set Tri-Disaster to bind and keep them from scattering. Bane to spread the DoT love. Adds dead.

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swiftcast > flare = 1.6k damage to all plumes; if it crits, plume is dead. This takes all of 2 seconds.

BLM destroys SMN on Garuda.

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Originally Posted by pandabearcat

On top of that, caster classes are the only ones that can consistently AoE without running out of resource...tp is bad and in prolonged situations you will run dry (hell it doesn't even have to be very prolonged, in 8 wide volley's a bard is dry, 3 more with invig).

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This was my point on why DRG > Bards, besides having a higher potency GCD skill with a 10% damage buff, we have a stronger invigorate and our skills cost less TP than theirs. Even if they get a "free" proc, just ours costing less essentially means we get a "free" ability use every 3 uses compared to their "chance" at a free skill.

BLMs might be kings of damage for AOE, but they are also kings of dying instantly if they happen to damage too much and aggro half the Turn 4 mobs. Where DRG can tank Turn 4 adds just fine: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n4tTWd20MYI

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Originally Posted by Hitome

swiftcast > flare = 1.6k damage to all plumes; if it crits, plume is dead. This takes all of 2 seconds.

BLM destroys SMN on Garuda.

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Yep, not to mention, bane refuses to work on garuda about 90% of the time.

You'll get like, 3 plumes baned, even if you use it when they're all on her butt and had done tri-disaster (which, also, refuses to work half the time).

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Originally Posted by Darkstride

Specific situations?

Garuda = Summoner.

Raging Strikes + all DoTs and Shadowflare on Garuda. As soon as adds are about to pop, you set Tri-Disaster to bind and keep them from scattering. Bane to spread the DoT love. Adds dead.

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Seems like a lot of work. I just use flare, and the plumes are all dead.

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Originally Posted by Zenmaku

snip for length.

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My group doesnt have this problem. At most, I'll have agro on one mob that mightve been crit too hard off a flare. One use of surecast for my next flare is all I need to take care of that. The only reason BLM would take mass agro during AOE portions is if theyre popping cooldowns/ethers for flares, which you should not be doing - the extra AOE DPS is unnecessary then, save CDs for dreadnoughts.