New Tank here...

So I have gotten Bard to lvl50 and done the eg dungeons save Coil so I got an idea of what to expect. But I am leveling a PLD to try and tank for once as I'm usually support or dps. I'll eventually do Scholar as well. My question is, what makes a tank good or bad? Besides holding aggro obviously. Like what should I do, as someone who has hardly any tanking experience, so I can become a good tank and not have to deal with the horror stories I keep seeing.

Communicate. The more information that is shared from you on your plans in a dungeon the better for every. Marks, chat calls, anything else. Use them.

1.mark primary target, and making sure everyone is only attacking the primary target
2. u cant just hit the primary target though. tanks are meant to cycle through all the mobs that are engaged to make sure they are glued onto the tank.
3. exception to point 2 is when the healer or blm sleeps the mob, during which you should try not to hit the mob, but use flash to try to maintain hate. its slightly trickier.
4. know all the mechanics of the fight well, because u r responsible for the position of the boss/mobs
5. stun when u need to. there r abilities that stunning would be a nice addition, but there r abilities that MUST be stunned. simple example is Dark Mist used by the Maidens in Haukke Manor.

Almost forgot, remember flash is free. Use it liberally.

If a mob is going for healer or something, do I provoke it? Because I've seen people say provoke just puts you back on top of the hate list but you don't necessarily actually get aggro.

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Originally Posted by Syndication

If a mob is going for healer or something, do I provoke it? Because I've seen people say provoke just puts you back on top of the hate list but you don't necessarily actually get aggro.

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Provoke puts you at that character's aggro +1. Basically, all they need to render Provoke useless is to use an auto-attack after you have used it. When you use Provoke, always have a skill like Shield Lob or combo'ed Savage Blade/Rage of Halone ready to immediately follow-up after using Provoke to gain back aggro.

u do get aggro. if the healer accumulated a million points of aggro, provoke will instantly give u 1000001 points of aggro, and thats extremely useful.

as to how to use it, it depends. if the mob has been on u e whole time, but u accidentally lost a little aggro and it starts going for the healer, it is probably unnecessary to voke (unless healer is dying) - in that case, a simple RoH is usually enough to claim it back.

but if the mob came out of nowhere as an add while you are fighting 3 other mobs, and u didnt notice it until much later, chances r that the healer has already accumulated a large amount of hate, so u need a instant aggro boost with voke, then build with RoH on top of thay to secure hate

Can PLd get swiftcast for raise? I've not looked into the THM class yet so I have no clue. Also any good rotations to maintain hate? Or just click like 1 or 2 skills like flash repeatedly.

No one has any idea? o.o

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Originally Posted by Syndication

Can PLd get swiftcast for raise? I've not looked into the THM class yet so I have no clue. Also any good rotations to maintain hate? Or just click like 1 or 2 skills like flash repeatedly.

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1. PLD can only pick up cross class skills from Marauder and Conjurer.
2. Your main rotation for single target is Fast Blade > Savage Blade > Rage of Halone. For groups of mobs you will want to add Flash to the mix, and cycle the hate combo through mobs.

biggest tip to be a GOOD tank, is learn to read the aggro bars. The little bars under the party members symbols. Cycle your mobs and hit the ones that people are getting close to overtaking you. You will never lose aggro if you keep an eye on those bars.

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Originally Posted by dimsumdarren

biggest tip to be a GOOD tank, is learn to read the aggro bars. The little bars under the party members symbols. Cycle your mobs and hit the ones that people are getting close to overtaking you. You will never lose aggro if you keep an eye on those bars.

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Yep, good point. I put enemy list right under my target so i can see the bars clearly.

Its already been mentioned but I'll emphasize on it. FLASH. As a whm who basically only uses Cure I as main healing. I really shouldn't get aggro (Just assume that I'm doing a good job and not spamming cure I with every single little hit). But I've noticed gladiators that just don't use flash.

Another thing, which I'm kinda surprised I haven't seen in here. GEAR Please update your gear. Your weapon I could care less about as whm, although its also very important, but just your tank gear. Going into Haukke with 25 gear vs the level 28/30 gear there is a huge difference in how much damage you take. So please keep your gear updated.

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Originally Posted by Meshico

Your weapon I could care less about as whm, although its also very important, but just your tank gear.

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Many abilities are based on weapon damage, so updated weapons are very important from an enmity-generation perspective, which should be very important to you as a WHM.

Really good tips here, and I would read the Paladin Compendium in this forum if you want to do extra research.

My best advice, though, would be to go out and play your class in a dungeon after you get a basic grip on what each ability does. You will find your own way to manage each situation - don't be afraid to experiment!

Being a good tank is more than holding aggro. You are expected to be the leader of your group, which involves marking kill orders and CC targets, explaining boss fights, making sure party members aren't screwing up, etc. A good tank also makes the rest of the party's job easier. Turn mobs away from DPS so they don't get AoEd. Position mobs so that DPS can get backstabs. Manage your defensive cooldowns properly to make their healer's job easier. If you are getting huge spike damage, getting hit by AoEs, kiting the mob around away from DPS, etc, then you are a horrid tank even if you are holding aggro the whole time.

Lots of people say it isn't the tank's responsibility to be the leader and the things listed above. Those people are lazy. Sure, you can avoid those responsibilities and still get by, but if you aren't playing to the peak of your performance and capabilities, then you aren't a good tank. Simple as that.

Lots of good advice in here.

1. Bind marks so you can do it on the fly while tanking multiple things. Someone WILL pull adds at some point and you need to be able to mark them quickly meanwhile maintaining aggro and grabbing the new ones.
2. Position yourself and the enemies properly. I prefer to face the group with the enemies inbetween us. That way I can see the party and the stuff being tanked. This isn't always possible or optimal but by and large this allows the tank to see what is happening and also puts you in a good spot to chase things should you lose aggro.
3. Consider the fact that lots of melee dps want to be behind or to the side of the enemy.
4. Switch you threat target before the previous one dies. Example: Enemy #1 is at 10% hp and you have solid aggro, at this point start to primary enemy #2 and build more of a threat lead. Enemy #1 is low and you're at rage of halone in your rotation? That's a great time to switch and use your RoH on enemy #2.

AedV and Zoomie already chimed on how important positioning is. Learn how to position yourself and the mobs... and to that end the party as well. Monk and Drags will prefer the mobs' flanks.

So i make sure when i have dps classes dont have to move very often. Do 90deg swivels when there's an aoe - then swivel back so that the mob stays in the same spot so dps and healers wont have to move around much.

Generally always face the mob away from the party at a 180 or 90 deg angle. Adjust accordingly - if there is a hallway ahead of the party.. then 90deg would be a better option since you could easily survey the corridors ahead in case of patrols. If im on a higher ground i try to move the mobs a bit so the rest of the party (healers) gets a better visual as well.

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Originally Posted by Eightbit

Almost forgot, remember flash is free. Use it liberally.

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Is it free for Warriors or something? At level 50 it costs me 212 MP and is a mana whore, by far the most expensive ability we have.

To the OP I believe the best advice I can give is put on your big boy pants and make sure to grow some thick skin. Communicate the best you can, and try to ignore the jackasses who bitch, whine, and complain constantly because you're going to get a lot of it if you run dungeons often in random groups. In addition to that, try to weed out the constructive criticism that will be mixed in with the QQ, and be willing to learn from it, because from time to time people do actually offer some helpful info/tips.

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Originally Posted by SkyBlueLogan

Is it free for Warriors or something? At level 50 it costs me 212 MP and is a mana whore, by far the most expensive ability we have.

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It's not entirely free per se, but as a tank, more often than not you are not using MP for anything else. As a Level 46 Paladin, the only skills I have that consumes MP are Flash, Protect, and Cure. In that sense, you have an entire MP bar to spend on Flash.