Ah another good experience (Sarcasm intended)

So, I joined this Castrum party for a speedrun. We finished it, pretty quickly actually. Now even before Castrum I noticed something about the SMN Job/Class: They aren't very good with taking down adds ASAP like people desire.

Now, after the dungeon some said "Good job" and w/e. A player commented to that and said "All except *My character*", I replied, "What did I do? Wrong that is?" I wanted to know so that I could honestly, better myself if I did do something wrong (This isn't the main topic about this thread but if you are going to say someone isn't good to their face, give them constructive criticism so that they can learn what they did wrong and work on it). Then I was given a childish 12 year old reply, "Nothin' just messin with you."

So, after awhile the tank leaves having no interest in the runs anymore, and the party started searching for a new one. A party member found a Tank available but only if they could bring their friend (Mind you, the party was full until the tank left). Now, knowing what was said before and what I knew about the adds vs SMN, I came to the conclusion of volunteering to leave to make room (Don't stay somewhere where people don't want you around right?). Now this is the part that gets me. I was honestly not that surprised about getting kicked but flabbergasted at the fact that before I was kicked, no one said anything. It was like I was a piece of trash that they just threw away after they found something new and shiny. Let me put it simple: No one, and I mean no one, should be treated like they are nothing. A quick, "Sorry, thanks for running with us." from the Leader is not too much to ask for... Or is it nowadays?

Anyone else have a similar experience? If so you can share it and we can laugh together.

EDIT: Just found out the party leader was looking for a minimum of DL pieces... Lols... It's funny, I thought Castrum was the right place to farm tomes for AF gear'd people. :P

if u get kicked isnt because your are a smn

killing adds in castrum as smn is perfectly doable ,thats why u have bane , if adds are near the boss refresh dots and bane else put dots on random add and bane

OR why better strat , IGNORE ADDS ,and focus boss , while the others jobs kill adds , u know a castrum rush usually has 5 dps if 1 dont touch adds doesnt matter.

if u really need to kill an add asap , use ruin II > drain > ruin II > drain > ruin II > drain > ruin II , yeah u wasted all your charges to kill and add but what u gonna do if u really need to kill it asap? (i used that for wall adds when i was gearing myself) with more gear nowadays i just kill the wall w/o touching adds

Thank you for the advice, I'll try that next time. :)

While SMN doesn't have tons of Aoe, they do have some tools to use. but ridiculing someone for not doing something their job isn't as good at is pretty absurd.

the reason some people demand certain gear for castrum runs is simply they want to keep the runs as short as possible.

Sadly, this is how most feel about SMN. I think it's a good job with a really boring/weak play style. I don't mind it that much for boss fights or fights with multiple low-medium HP adds, but on ANYTHING that needs to die at any kind of reasonable speed I never want a SMN. When I queue up for AK and I want to do it in a timely manner and I have a SMN it almost always means that everything will be down to the wire, simply because their overall DPS is SO much lower. I don't have any problems with the job, just the poor design.

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Originally Posted by AnkoYaoi

So, I joined this Castrum party for a speedrun. We finished it, pretty quickly actually. Now even before Castrum I noticed something about the SMN Job/Class: They aren't very good with taking down adds ASAP like people desire.

Now, after the dungeon some said "Good job" and w/e. A player commented to that and said "All except *My character*", I replied, "What did I do? Wrong that is?" I wanted to know so that I could honestly, better myself if I did do something wrong (This isn't the main topic about this thread but if you are going to say someone isn't good to their face, give them constructive criticism so that they can learn what they did wrong and work on it). Then I was given a childish 12 year old reply, "Nothin' just messin with you."

So, after awhile the tank leaves having no interest in the runs anymore, and the party started searching for a new one. A party member found a Tank available but only if they could bring their friend (Mind you, the party was full until the tank left). Now, knowing what was said before and what I knew about the adds vs SMN, I came to the conclusion of volunteering to leave to make room (Don't stay somewhere where people don't want you around right?). Now this is the part that gets me. I was honestly not that surprised about getting kicked but flabbergasted at the fact that before I was kicked, no one said anything. It was like I was a piece of trash that they just threw away after they found something new and shiny. Let me put it simple: No one, and I mean no one, should be treated like they are nothing. A quick, "Sorry, thanks for running with us." from the Leader is not too much to ask for... Or is it nowadays?

Anyone else have a similar experience? If so you can share it and we can laugh together.

EDIT: Just found out the party leader was looking for a minimum of DL pieces... Lols... It's funny, I thought Castrum was thr\e right place to farm tomes for AF gear'd people. :P

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I know the feeling.
Back in a previous MMO I played, I was in a hardcore raiding group. I was your standard typical DPS but I played my role well and I got along with all the higher ups of the guild, on good terms with the leader who would show me how to play my class better when I under performed and stuff. I even had a lot of them added on Facebook and when I wasn't even playing the game I'd still pop into Teamspeak to chat with them. Then, one day during a simple group run, on Teamspeak one of them said something about my mom, kind of one of those "your mom" things or something to that effect.

I wouldn't have minded as much, despite how personally this would have effected me due to what's happened in my life, I let that specifically slip, because I doubt he would have known what I've gone through in life. Though, I asked him again to clarify what he said, because I didn't quite get what he said. He responded, "You heard me", it was at that point that I was insulted. This person had the courage to say things but then buckled up when confronted. I then decided to drop guild after letting the only guild officer online know what happened.

Despite being in their first raid group, despite being great friends with them and being one of the most well known in the guild, they didn't even bat an eyelid and my departure.
It's heartbreaking, knowing that your contribution means naught. I then spent a lot of the game since that point alone, I couldn't set foot in a raid or dungeon because I didn't have anyone to do it with, so I ended up stopped playing.

I don't really know what I could say in positivity, but, I suppose just keep at it, keep trying until you meet good people, befriend those ones, add them to your friends list or linkshell and chat with them. Don't just add people and then only contact them when you want to run with them. Be social. When you run with people who appreciate you, your efforts then you'll have a better experience and you'll perform better.

Yeah, when I ran Brayflox once, the group gave me no respect, although sadly, I was also the only reason they barely scraped through. The healer would do anything but heal, wasting MP on attacks and sleeps that weren't necessary, the tank dying multiple times. The lancer had awful DPS; so awful that he thought the healer's Stone II was amazing and kept insisting the healer to use it, and when the healer at some point complained that it wasn't his fault that people were dying because his MP were running out, the lancer said that he ran nothing but lancer, no other classes for cross-class skills or jobs and that the healer obviously HAD to have something to restore MP outside of Ethers because hey, Lancers get something to restore TP, right? I had nothing to complain about with the tank, the fact that he kept dying was because the healer failed at healing and the lancer could not kill quickly enough.

I was running as BLM on this, mind you. I could have helped things go along more quickly in the DPS department, but no. Our white mage decides to sleep everything at the same time that I sleep it, wasting MP, even though I insisted that I can cover that because BLM has easily replenishable MP and the tank needs those heals. On top of that, I had to waste a lot of time doing extra healing or emergency healing to keep the tank alive. Which wastes up MP because fights take too long because the three of them are poor at damage dealing. It's a catch 22, because if I can't keep the tank alive, we will not make it, and if I can't deal damage, the tank needs more heals.

This goes along the entire dungeon. After skipping multiple chests, two wipes on the final boss mainly because the tank drops dead and we have not dealt enough damage to finish it off, I explicitly tell everybody how to do stuff. Tank needs to pull the boss from the pools, lancer needs to use full combos and proper positioning and use the two-bar Limit Break, healer needs to do nothing but healing the tank because I can cover the heals on us DPS and the healer himself. The lancer uses an emote, "looks at you in disgust", claims it was an accident. We beat the boss with this strategy and the most hectic juggling of dealing DPS and cross-healing people I've ever done in the game, and eke out a victory on the dungeon with only a couple of minutes left on the timer. The three guys thank each other and leave.

No thanks from anybody, speed right out through the gate, no items won from chest rolls, nothing. Yeah, what a great run.

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Originally Posted by Warlyx

if u get kicked isnt because your are a smn

killing adds in castrum as smn is perfectly doable ,thats why u have bane

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a lot of SMN dont use that skill and I am dont know why, it push the SMN DMG to top and kill the adds very quick.

and to add in : in boss fight, always use garuda egil and always drop shadow flare.

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Originally Posted by Alhanelem

the reason some people demand certain gear for castrum runs is simply they want to keep the runs as short as possible.

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This might be the reason stated, but to be blunt, it's idiotic. You might save a few minutes in Castrum with better gear, but any of that saved time is lost when you take longer to form a party coz you're being picky. It's a ridiculously easy dungeon apart from a few gimmicks.

I think the real reason is not wanting to help people who are new to Castrum. That comes from a variety of things, the desire to keep your ego inflated by keeping others down, the perceived notion that you're saving time (dispensed above), and just a general lack of respect for the community.

As for the OP, yeah, you were dealt with very unfairly. As mentioned the dungeon is easy as pie and your DPS being off a bit wouldn't have hurt anyone. You got bullied, not much else to be said.

Ick. I've had those experiences before and they really don't feel too good. I guess the reason for this stuff happening is that online interactions and even online friendship are mostly just skin deep so you can't count on anyone to empathize with how you feel. :(

I agree, bane is a great skill. I don't use it much in Castrum unless the adds are close together, otherwise I'd just waste it. SMN's are great for a lot of things, but their weakpoint is taking down tons of tons of adds, because we have no high damage AoE or even a low damage AoE that can target 1 enemy and when used, hits everything around that target.

I still love my SMN, and I am going to continue enjoying him. :)

EDIT: I take that back, we have the Egi Level 50 skill, but 300 second cd is.... Puke worthy.

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This might be the reason stated, but to be blunt, it's idiotic.

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Who are you to call wanting to be fast idiotic? Even 30 seconds to a minute saved means faster tomes. When you need so many and you're doing the same dungeon over and over, you may as well try to minimize the amount of time it takes. It's not like they're demanding people have a full set of ilvl90 gear or anything.

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Originally Posted by Alhanelem

Who are you to call wanting to be fast idiotic? Even 30 seconds to a minute saved means faster tomes. When you need so many and you're doing the same dungeon over and over, you may as well try to minimize the amount of time it takes. It's not like they're demanding people have a full set of ilvl90 gear or anything.

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So I save 1 minute each run but I spend more than 1 minute than usual to pick the members necessary to save that single minute. I don't wanna call it idiotic but surely I'm not saving time that way.

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Originally Posted by Alhanelem

Who are you to call wanting to be fast idiotic? Even 30 seconds to a minute saved means faster tomes. When you need so many and you're doing the same dungeon over and over, you may as well try to minimize the amount of time it takes. It's not like they're demanding people have a full set of ilvl90 gear or anything.

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Don't really need to reply because of the above post, but I will anyway. The desire to be fast isn't idiotic, that's not what I wrote. It's the idea that waiting longer to get people with higher quality gear will save you any reasonable amount of time in CM. Or as is the case in this thread, dumping someone from the party unceremoniously to go and find someone else. That's pretty clearly going to delay the run until another member is found.

As I mentioned before, the incident in this thread is more about the Ego and people being bullies. I don't think it was really about gear at all.

Important to note, I'm not accusing you of being like this. I'm sure you're one of the nice guys.

Totally not a summoner, but I hear you OP. Had an experience today today where I joined a Chimera party as monk (my main class, and the best geared atm.) I didn't need the quest, but did it to help my shell mate, and have experience fighting and killing chimera before. Some guy in the party starts sending /tells to our party lead (who's in vent with me, lol) that they should kick me, and when that fails starts shouting for a third bard to replace me...all without saying a word to me in party chat.

Had another experience (also going to chimera to help my shell mates) where I joined the party, and as soon as I did, someone just said "NO." At least that guy talked (around me, in party chat), so that was kinda preferable...

Basically, the community needs to remember that each party member is a person too. Not just a resource to be used or replaced by a (in their perception) 'better' class.

TLDR: Don't be a jerk.

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Originally Posted by Gethyn

Totally not a summoner, but I hear you OP. Had an experience today today where I joined a Chimera party as monk (my main class, and the best geared atm.) I didn't need the quest, but did it to help my shell mate, and have experience fighting and killing chimera before. Some guy in the party starts sending /tells to our party lead (who's in vent with me, lol) that they should kick me, and when that fails starts shouting for a third bard to replace me...all without saying a word to me in party chat.

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Hahaha, what a clown. Did anyone let him know that an entire Vent channel was aware he was reaming you out?

I did the Last few battles just today and before it even started I openly admitted that I had never done the run before. And through out the entirety of castrum I was insulted and yelled at for not knowing what to do. I know you can watch these fight and runs online but I honestly learn better through action. I don't know what "This if my first time." can be made any clearer. I mean did these people know everything the first time they ran it ?
These kinds of people are killing the experience for me and make me not want to play anymore. Its always just rush rus rush and there is no time to sit back and enjoy the game.
Had one person tell me "Thanks for wasting my time." Has anyone noticed that this game is one big time sink ? I mean really what is the hurry ?
I am just hoping that the jerks get bored and leave the game.

i get this with SCH alot, so much so that I am just quitting end-game with it til my FC is ready. If something goes wrong they start looking at members, they see me with some AF gear on and BAM its my fault it all went wrong.. even with half my AF still on I will outheal the second healer (without pulling aggro that is) and I will keep people up as long as they do their job.. but no its my fault everyone died.. not the dps for not killing adds fast enough and not the fully equipped WHM cos yea he is fully equipped so how can it be his fault.. I think the way people judge other people in this game is ridiculous, its a game and it was alot of fun til i hit 50.

my advice to the OP is to only go with an FC cos there will always be that one idiot who wants to ruin your day.

Sorry guy but I kind of agree, summoners have high DPS over time but when it comes down to speed runs and taking out mobs ASAP summoners just don't cut it.

Still, being thrown out without any kind of apology, reason or acknowledgement is kind of crappy, i feel for you.

You volunteered to leave, and you're upset because they didn't beg you to stay or thank you for it? Jesus, people on this forum need to man up.

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Originally Posted by Soulscare

You volunteered to leave, and you're upset because they didn't beg you to stay or thank you for it? Jesus, people on this forum need to man up.

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It isn't unreasonable to think you should be given a "Thanks, see ya!" for offering to leave. You also shouldn't get kicked if you're offering. That's just plain rude.

And really that's what it all comes down to with this game: people are rude. There is a very large portion of this game's community who don't see other players as people. They see them as disposable NPCs they can curse at if they don't behave in a particular way, aren't geared a particular way.

It's not just this game, but this one does seem to have a huge amount of people who just don't care about you unless you can advance them the way they want to be advanced. It also doesn't help that a number of this game's mechanics encourage this sort of behavior in the NA/EU groups (from what I've heard, the JP players are much more polite, likely due to being in a general more traditionally polite culture I suspect).

FATEs encourage people to only care about pounding on a mob. Healing someone isn't important really, not when there's three other potential tanks to grab aggro in case one dies and you get glanced at. Just let them die, they can resurrect and run back, right? I've seen tanks die at healer's feet in FATE groups. Because FATEs don't care if you've healed someone, they only care how much damage you've contributed or how many items you've handed to the NPC.

The duty finder groups you with people on other servers more frequently than your own server (just by a law of averages) but there's no way to communicate with those people outside of the forums or The Lodestone after the run. So there's no incentive to work with people, to respect them and their role in the group. There's no way to block someone you had a bad encounter with if they're from another server so there's even a chance you might end up being stuck in a group with them.

Of course, there are exceptions that show that it's not exactly the tools' fault for people being shitty within them. But that's the case of it. We're in a culture where you don't have to care about the other person on the other side. It's okay to make fun of them, and if they complain in a public forum they get told to 'man up' or 'suck it up, it is the internet.' Well that's not good enough. These are people we're all playing with and everyone deserves to be treated well.

I personally will always try to communicate with someone. Whenever I join a dungeon through the duty finder I say hello, introduce myself to people. If I haven't done a dungeon I'll say something to that effect and give an upfront apology for if I end up screwing something up. And then I'll apologize when/if I do mess up (because I'm not perfect, and I do make mistakes after all). If I have run a dungeon and I'm with someone who hasn't, I'll explain strategies to them, walk them through things and then ask to make sure they understood or if they need a recap. When tanking I make sure to mark my targets.

I try to be a good player at all times, and try to make sure that anytime someone having an interaction with me will see me, and by extension my free company, in a good light. It just seems the way to do things but it doesn't seem to be shared by the majority.

I've been pretty lucky so far though in that most of my Duty Finder runs have been with pretty good people. There've been a couple of struggles but mostly nothing I couldn't work through with communication. Sometimes communication's hard too; people on PS3 without keyboards obviously can't communicate as effectively so I keep that in mind and don't get upset when people don't talk much.

Today though I had my first encounter where I actually left a Duty Finder group.

I primarily play tank, and do my best to follow the behaviours I set above. When I do dungeons I'm always grouped with my FC co-leader who plays a DPS role in this game. So we get dungeons pretty much instantaneously. We arrived in Cutter's Cry (this is our first time doing it, and indicate as much) with a SMN and a SCH (which I assume was two boxed based on the naming and the way they moved/talked). So we start to go through, and I mark my targets before I pull. The SMN/SCH are rushing ahead of me on each pull where I'm barely able to mark in time before they aggro on proximity. When I do get to pull, I have to make sure I pull perfectly and hit the right sequence of hate on the groups of mobs because on engage they're both dropping all of their dots onto each target without giving enough time to establish aggro on the group (and of course, because I'm not perfect I slipped up once or twice and didn't get my distances right so a mob would slip past me now and then). So of course, I'm having to spam my AE hate abilities to make sure that the (numbered) mobs aren't being peeled away. As we're in an encounter, the SCH is more concerned with ensuring their dots are than keeping me healed.

I understand as a WAR I'm a bit more squishy than a PLD. I do try to mitigate that by using my cooldowns and self-heals, but as every WAR knows your self-heals only go so far when you're being pounded by three+ mobs in a group. So I understand I'm a bit tough to keep healed (I do try to keep my gear up to date as possible, and during this run I was wearing HQ Heavy Steel and jewelry +-2 levels away from my own) and because of it I suspect healers have to keep a pretty close eye. I very frequently dipped near to death during trash engagements and had to use my own panic heals and pots.

So we make it through the trash and eventually get to the first boss which goes down pretty easily without much fuss. Then we get to the oasis groupings with the optional chests and mobs. Each one of these the other pair would tear ahead of us and draw aggro. Or rush forward to open the chests. They would run through the portal as soon as the mobs were killed regardless of where myself or my companion were (we always wait to make sure everyone's nearby before going through a portal). One point I actually had a Sabotender on me when they ran through a portal, leaving myself and the BRD to handle the mob.

Throughout the dungeon I try to explain that I can't immediately snap aggro and keep it consistently if they're hitting everything at once. That if they follow the marks we can burn through each quickly and make it out fast. That if I have to spam my AE threat I will run out of TP and it's more likely that something will run after them and attack them while I can't pull it off. I try to work with them trying to speed things up (I generally take my time going through a dungeon, and chat with people as we do it) and get to the next waves faster. The only response I get is "You should be able to keep aggro, I have a 50 WAR."

At this point I get to the end of my frustration. I leave the dungeon along with my friend.

Could I have possibly performed better? Perhaps. But this didn't come up until after I'd tried to work with them to get a pace all four of us could enjoy (three if they were two-boxed), to see if we could all work together instead of running willy-nilly and skipping content (which I personally hate but that's another rant).

But I got fed up because this other person(people) wanted me to play as they expected me to play, and not how I actually do. They wouldn't work with me and instead worked against me while I was willing to communicate and all I received back was a snide comment.

I'd like to think I'm a pretty good WAR. Once I know the strategies to a run I tend to get the group through at a good clip and without issues. What I don't appreciate though is being told I'm not doing a good enough job because I don't conform to the way they think I should be.

To validate myself, we of course went back later and were able to run the rest of the dungeon successfully (there were a couple of slip ups while we all learned Chimera because it was new to the whole group going in) and then again later on doing it a second complete time without a single boss failure.

To sum up; people need to remember they're working with other people in an MMO. Be friendly, communicate, work with each other instead of assuming and work against each other.

And SE needs to put enhanced systems in place so we can properly treat the caustic portions of this community; shunning them entirely.

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Originally Posted by Soulscare

You volunteered to leave, and you're upset because they didn't beg you to stay or thank you for it? Jesus, people on this forum need to man up.

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You obviously didn't read clearly so let me dumb it down.

They kicked me out before I could even SAY anything about leaving. They just kicked me and it was over. I never even got to say anything. Not even a bye or thanks and I am not upset. I was greatly surprised (Which I also said if you actually read the post clearly, but obviously, you didn't).

EDIT: Typos are fun.

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Originally Posted by AnkoYaoi

You obviously didn't read clearly so let me dumb it down.

They kicked me out before I could even SAY anything about leaving. They just kicked me and it was over. I never even got to say anything. Not even a bye or thanks and I am not upset. I was greatly surprised (Which I also said if you actually read the post clearly, but obviously, you didn't).

EDIT: Typos are fun.

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I read your entire post...

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Originally Posted by AnkoYaoi

I came to the conclusion of volunteering to leave to make room (Don't stay somewhere where people don't want you around right?).

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Perhaps you meant something else, but that made it sound as if you said to them you would leave.

Honestly, while people's behaviour online really sucks, this is quite mild and you really should develop a thicker skin for online play nowadays. Common decency would make you assume people will say TY and Good job and all after a successful run, but I've come to accept that as long as a group doesn't outright berate people and starting cursing at everyone, its a pretty decent group. Getting upset that they didn't say TY for the group is a little silly, imo.

Its definitely rude that they kicked you without saying anything, but oh well. Such is life with anonymous humans online nowadays. At least they let you finish the run.

Weighing the options: 1) -3 minutes to Castrum run vs. 2) +10 to Douchebaggery. It's sad how many people choose #2...

get thicker skin please i have seen worse and have worse done to me without coming onto the forums to complain....

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Originally Posted by Vonleo

get thicker skin please i have seen worse and have worse done to me without coming onto the forums to complain....

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Nice to see sociopaths like you enabling idiots on a game. Maybe a remedial course in Human Decency is in order?

my experience with this game as a whole is that NO ONE is very talkative. Duty Finder groups just grind through things without saying a word to each other. No one speaks up in fate parties except to complain about not getting healed or to say which fate we're headed to next. I've been through three FCs with over 100 active members in them, and most of the time, no one is talking in them. Even when we set up FC instances people rarely say anything to one another. I think it's the whole solo mentality of the game mechanics. You can go through the entire game without having to speak to another living person except on a few instanced areas, and so no one really communicates or talks to one another. It's a single player game that is, for some reason, online. So yeah, I've had a lot of people not saying anything to me whether I was good or bad. It's just the way the community for this particular game seems to roll.

I've done castrum with you before and you were a perfectly fine dps in my opinion.
However, people on our server (possibly others) have a habbit of not talking much which is probably why nobody said anything before you were kicked from the group. I've been in many groups that rotate players after every run with nothing being said in between.
There have also been groups that remain static and chat away making jokes and conversation between and during runs.

Don't let it get you down.

I cant believe people even have high requirements for CM. That thing is absurdly easy, I spirit bond gear in there. No one ever complains and we do just fine.

So I've read all the posts in this thread about various people's experiences while partying via the DF. Sad.... and even reading about some experiences made me angry. I personally have not experienced anything horrible on my own skin as a SCH but I have witnessed it being directed towards other, random, people in my parties. Sometimes the bully is so.... UGH! (that actually describes them the best without using rude words on here) that people not participating in the conflict had to interfere.

All I can say is, I really wish there was a DF (cross-server) blacklist and stricter/better enhanced moderation of behaviour upon reporting people for abusive and/or rude language in general.