What exactly is the relationship between the magic classes?

It may sound really stupid, but what is the relationship between them? CNJ, THM, and ARC.

I keep trying to find information but the internet is a cesspool of mouth breathers half the time when trying to find specifics, and it's just normally better to ask the community.

So are you asking if they are involved with each other? Or is more of you want to know what each one does lore wise? Like the role within society etc? I made a topic about are the black mages the warlocks of eorzea(spoiler warning in the topic). Thaumaturges use their inner aetheric energy to cast spells while black mages instead suck the aether out of the atompshere to cast stronger destructive spells. Plus thaumaturgy/black magic is connected to the void the same void where all the demons live.

In the topic someone explained the duties of the thaumaturge and lets just say its pretty dark and black mage is even worse considering what black mages will have to deal with in their daily life. They both use the dark arts but black mage is even darker. Here if the topic if you want to read it.

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...ocks-of-eorzea

Now what I personally know on conjurers/white mages they are essentially druids( I haven't done their class quests I am just going by what friends have told me and what we see of them in the story). They deal with and heal the forest etc and commune with the elementals. Considering how they cast their spells since they work with the forest they would not like black mages one bit.

Since we suck the aether out of the atmosphere(which is not environmentally friendly compared to the other spell schools) to cast spells and since aether flows in living things I bet casting our major spells causes some trees or flowers to die around us. XD

Since I leveled arcanist to 47 I got a good understanding of them they are pretty much the normal mages of the game when it comes to casting spells. They see the patterns in the aether and convert this into logic/maths terms and they use that to cast their magic. So in simple terms just think of it as maths magic. :p Their spells seem like dark magic but its not that belongs to the thaumaturges/black mages.

Now onto their duties they are hardcore border control they deal with smugglers and the beastmen who live in limsa lominsa to ensure all their papers are up to date.

Well this is all I know I hope I answered your question. :X

Shinros is correct about Conjurers and White Mages. White Magic also draws more on the world's own Aether supply. Because of this, irresponsible overuse of White Magic resulted in an Umbral Era. You are, perhaps, aware that we are defeating The Primals because they utilize the worlds Aether? The Umbral Era caused by White Magic overuse is similar to the Aether overuse caused by the summoning and maintaining of a Primal. When the Umbral Era occurred, the practice of White Magic fell out of use and was lost to the common person. The Padjal of Gridania became the keepers of this forbidden knowledge and restricted its teaching and use to other Padjal. To learn more about why adventurers can become White Mages, go level one yourself. =P

In short, the only thing that Conjury and White Magic has in common with the other disciples of magic is that it uses or is supplemented by Aether.

Yeah, that's the common thread between the mage classes and jobs, is that they all involve some form of manipulation of aether - what differs between classes and Jobs is exactly how that aether is manipulated, and, for that matter, the actual source of the aether (Conjury for instance involves borrowing aether from the environment through using a staff that is little more than a bare branch or twig, where as Thaumaturgury utilizes the casters own aether - effectively, their very life force, and channels it through a metal staff.).

The CNJ's Guild receptionist mentions early on when you first join about how magic study first came about in Eorzea, where early mages basically just experimented with aether and how early magic was very chaotic and somewhat unpredictable, before the current disciplines of magic eventually developed.

An interesting thing to note about Conjury, is that if the Conjurer lacks an understanding of nature, and fails to draw their power from the environment, they will begin to drain their own aether, instead. And from what it sounds like, a Conjurer who uses their own aether places a greater burden on their body than a Thaumaturge ever can.

Funny thing is saikou with black mages we just vanished and because our spells were so destructive it was outlawed no one was even allowed to say the word black mage and today everyone considers them heretics. Considering the fact in the class story the void wants to claim and corrupt black mages and we mess with it all the time with blood offerings.

Guess what we became? I am thinking along the main story here. Since even the person who made you one still does not know the reason why they vanished.

To note.
Conjury is the art of speaking with the elementals and drawing the power of the land to power your magic.
Thaumaturgy is the art of using one's own inner aether to perform your magic.
Friend up there said black mages call upon the aether of the atmosphere to power their magic.
A certain conjurer that was... Unwilling to learn. Used her own natural energy reserves to power her healing magic, nearly leading her to death (also the cause of her mother's death).
She was definitely healing with thaumaturgy (which made a friend of mine flip his pancakes, because he played in the earliest stages of the game in 1.0 back when THM was a healer and CNJ a nuker).

Thaumaturgy and Conjury aren't that different at all, they are very alike.

Also, the use of one's aether to power himself is not unique only to magical classes! A certain disciple of war, Monk, uses the power of their own inner aether to strengthen their bodies.

No, no, you people are all wrong. Conjurers have a crush on Thaumaturgs, who have a crush on Arcanists, who aren't sure who they like because they eventually hook up with both, becoming Summoners if they like Thaums, and Scholars if they hook up with Conjurers. It's a whole love triangle, and don't even get me started on if they see their crush talking to the other one in the lunch room. Major drama.

;)

Speaking of Slyphie in the CNJ class quests about how she was powering her spells, the form of magic she was using was technically a traditional WHM ability from earlier FF games, known variously as 'Sacrifice' or 'Martyr' (as it was known as a WHM merit ability in FFXI), where that character/player sacrifices some of their own HP (ala, 'life force') to heal another character/player by a larger amount.

Although it essentially was using her own aether to do so, it wasn't technically Thaumaturgury, as that's a different school of magic (which came about from funeral rites practiced by priests of Thal).

See, Enkidoh.
Sacrifice was a Thaumaturge spell up to 1.18 >_>

Which is the big reason my friend flipped his pancakes going "AAAAH! THAT IS WHAT THAUMATURGES DO I WANT MY THM HEALER BACK"

So,

Basically are they all trying to help each other? Hurt each other? Save each other? One trying to suppress the other's magic?

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Originally Posted by Design

So,

Basically are they all trying to help each other? Hurt each other? Save each other? One trying to suppress the other's magic?

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It would be more accurate to say they compliment each other. I'll try and explain this from my own perspective, which is a very different angle.

Conjury is the magic of nature. It weaves the aether of nature to manipulate nature, thus making it dependant upon an understanding of nature and its elemental guardians. Earth is uplifted, air is moved and water is gathered. Curing magic re-forms the body to close wounds (enhanced in WHM). It is the magic of motion.

Thaumaturgy is the magic of raw energy. It draws forth the aether of one's own wellspring and by regulating their aether in the astral and umbral polarities, are able to channel the latent aether of the world (and void - BLM) through themselves and into an expression of energy. This takes the form of electrical currents, burning heat, or the icy absence there of.

Arcanima is the magic of matter-alteration. Through the use of symbols, they apply aether to transform the environment around them. This can inflict disease and slowly tear at a victim's biology. It can also cause the aether around them to transform into an entity that bear's the consciousness of aether (much like how a primal is summoned but on a smaller scale) and bind it to their will. This bears a greater similarity to ancient Allagan techniques, which may have persisted in Nym and the Southern Island areas in isolation from the Black/White advancements of mainland Eorzea.

Motion, Energy and Matter. Three ways of manipulating aether, all with very different results.

Catapult, I believe that is the most succinct explanation of all three schools I have seen thus far.

And, Design, it would be more accurate to say that they don't really feel all too much toward the other. Perhaps a sort of arrogance of "My school is better than your school," but, from what I've read in-game, the other schools could cease to be and one wouldn't care or notice too much.

So pretty much each thinks they are right and the others are wrong?

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Originally Posted by shinros

Since we suck the aether out of the atmosphere(which is not environmentally friendly compared to the other spell schools) to cast spells and since aether flows in living things I bet casting our major spells causes some trees or flowers to die around us. XD

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I know this is completely off topic but when you said that I pictured the Giant Mega Maid from Spaceballs and Skroob Dark Helmet and the other guy going, "Suck suck suck suck"

btw catapult great explaination

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Originally Posted by Design

So,

Basically are they all trying to help each other? Hurt each other? Save each other? One trying to suppress the other's magic?

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As Catapult said, they're basically in a mutual balance - although there is a certain amount of apparent rivalry between the three mage guilds, because each actually has a different role in their respective countries, it's not really a case of 'we're better than you'.

If you are wondering, this is all for RP. My main is ARC and my "brother" is THM. So we were trying to figure out exactly what types of behavior and status each one has (I may actually be changing to CNJ)

ACN sees their magic as more 'math-y and scientific', THM is more 'raw destruction (and maniacal laughing)', and CONJ is more 'peacefully at one with nature and all life'.

At least that was my impression of the guilds.

Indeed no conflict, but using the techniques of one school will have limited effect in another. For example, using Thaumaturgical techniques to move the earth would require a lot more energy and focus as it takes a great deal of power to move things, compared to making lightning dance across things. And trying too hard could kill you (ref: Sylphie).

PS: ARC = Archer. Arcanist = ACN.

Also, as per my earlier post, each Guild actually serves a more social/mundane role in their respective nation, where their magical abilities are put to other uses other than warfare:

The CNJ's Guild is used to intercede between the Gridanians and the elementals on mundane matters, due to the treaty between the elementals and Gridania, the elementals insist that anything that would impact on the forest has to have the permission of the elementals first, and hence, the CNJ's fill this role, specifically CNJs especially sensitive to the elementals' whisperings who are known as 'hearers'. Accordingly, the CNJ's Guild also plays an important part in Gridania's government the Seedseer Council.
The THM's Guild are essentially funeral directors who developed their school of magic from their funerary rites (the guild receptionist clearly states this early on when you first join up), although a lot of Ul'dahns hold them in contempt as there have been rumours they demand elaborate funerals simply to graverob the deceased after the service.
The ACN's Guild are effectively the Customs house for Limsa Lominsa - although it's somewhat obscure exactly how they would use Arcanamia in this way, I presume it would be used to screen incoming goods for contraband without opening crates, or something. But I have no conclusive evidence in that regard so take that with a grain of salt. ;)

As for Sylphie, as was stated she was using her own life force to power her healing spells, of which her spell potency seemed to be in equality with how much of her 'life' she used (hence why E-Sumi Yan expressly forbid her to use Raise - as Raise restores the (presumably recently) dead to life, if she used it it would have given life at the cost of her own.).

As for how arcanists work as a customs house.
Did you do the quests for it? It essentially has you running that work! (And they use carbuncles the same way one would use sniffing dogs)

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Originally Posted by Skies

Sacrifice was a Thaumaturge spell up to 1.18

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That is neat. While I understand they changed the thm and con spells to better define each class and their job expansions, having the characters in the game acknowledge the change and giving an actual in-game reason for why this change may have been made is nothing short of great work! Aside from explaining how monsters suddenly became bigger, I wonder what other hidden stuff like this is out there!

You have to remember though, when 1.0 was first released, classes were a lot different in how they functioned to how they are now (for instance, CNJ originally had the use of spells of all elements, including Fire, Lightning and Ice), and Jobs were not even in the game at all - they were only added towards the end of 1.0's life, hence classes had to be completely overhauled to compensate.

This is why THM lost Sacrifice, as it's traditionally a White Mage ability, and THM was made to upgrade to Black Mage, gaining the CNJ's Fire, Ice and Lightning spells (because CNJ was made to upgrade to WHM and focus more on healing). It had nothing to do with the lore of the class - it was purely to balance gameplay mechanics.

Indeed, a great deal of the magic system application was retconned. It's probably important we don't read too much from the old system.

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Originally Posted by shinros

Guess what we became? I am thinking along the main story here. Since even the person who made you one still does not know the reason why they vanished.

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actually he knows why they became that, he tells you about it when he gives you final af peice, also as to why blm vanish is simply overuse makes them part of aeyther, like the spirits from ffx where they can still have physical presence but are not physically there, so once they give in or feel content with their work done the void claims them.

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Originally Posted by Meliae

actually he knows why they became that, he tells you about it when he gives you final af peice, also as to why blm vanish is simply overuse makes them part of aeyther, like the spirits from ffx where they can still have physical presence but are not physically there, so once they give in or feel content with their work done the void claims them.

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Hmmm I think I need to watch the scene again. Still that sucks anyway lol not much of a difference.