Tanks and getting into HM Titan

So, I am just going to go out on a limb and say it... We need some kind of workaround for getting Tanks into HM Titan for the relic quest.
As I understand it, you need to do the primal fights on the job associated with your relic quest to get the update. But the vast, VAST majority of groups (that have a decent chance to win) only bring 1 tank. And most of them have their tank picked out.
This creates a huge bottleneck for tanks on the relic quest, since you'll see groups of 4-5 dps, 2-3 healers, and 1 tank... One.

Granted, if you have 4 excellent dps and 2 excellent healers, you can get away with using a 2nd tank as a dps, but that does not happen very often. So, long story short, us tanks are kind of screwed on this fight.
To make things worse, we've got "Full DL + X AF+2, experienced in phase 3-5" tanks spamming in Rev's Toll for HM Titan, effectively pushing out those of us who have not had the time to grind out 30-40-50 CM runs over the past few weeks... All of this artificial competition for that one spot, plus the difficulty of the Titan fight itself... its making the relic quest very... aggravating, and just not in the least bit fun. Not for a tank anyway.

Make your own party.

Or, you can be a badass and make a 5-Tanks, 1 DPS, 2 Healers party like my server. They actually got past the heart phase.

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Originally Posted by Tanaya

Make your own party.

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Pretty much this. The odds of you finding a PUG as a tank are slim; making one yourself, that's another story.

You can do acceptable dps as a paladin or warrior on this fight, you just have to convince a group to let you do it.

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Originally Posted by Faction

You can do acceptable dps as a paladin or warrior on this fight, you just have to convince a group to let you do it.

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I tried this tonight with a party of FC mates. I threw together a bunch of AK chain gear which I had laying around from too many AK runs, but I didn't have any DPS accessories. I was parsing 100-105 DPS while the well-geared SMN in the party parsed in the 170's. Running 1 tank, 3 healers, 4 DPS (including me), our party did not have enough DPS to pass the heart phase even with LB2.

I could grind CM speedruns and deck myself out with all DPS accessories and maybe a few pieces of DL chain but the thought of doing a dozen or more CM speedruns just to have the DPS to pass this one fight after which I'll probably never DPS again with WAR makes my soul hurt.

I would also suggest making your own group. Or even better get your FC to-do it with you, if you are in one that is.

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Originally Posted by Illya

I was parsing 100-105 DPS while the well-geared SMN in the party parsed in the 170's. Running 1 tank, 3 healers, 4 DPS (including me), our party did not have enough DPS to pass the heart phase even with LB2.

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You should be parsing higher than that easily, at least 130-140. Also grab an extra DPS and nix the third healer, you don't need a third healer for Titan. 2 Healers is plenty for keeping the tank alive and the only move the DPS should be hit by is Tumult. DL Chain gear can't be equipped by Warrior/Paladin anymore its Dragoon exclusive now, but the Heavy DL set has 2 more STR and more Crit than the DRG set anyway. DL accessories are also dirt cheap and easy to obtain while functioning on multiple jobs, so that could easily bump your DPS by a bit. And if you don't already have it, I highly suggest getting Garuda Axe.

I also advocate two healers instead of three. Three healers is overkill and is only necessary when your healers are undergeared or your party as a whole can't dodge anything (in which case they aren't going to beat the fight anyway).

Yep god knows what bad drugs SE was taking while designing Titan hm.
For every Tank that gets his relic you have 2-3 Healer and 4-5 dps who get theirs.
And no one comes back to Titan besides for helping out a friend.

Its plain stupid.

They could easily change the heart phase to an add that requires a second tank but no.

I swear to god
This is the FIRST MMO I ever hear about having issues with "Too many tanks"
We also had a short phase with "Too many healers"

I love this game

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Originally Posted by Skies

I swear to god
This is the FIRST MMO I ever hear about having issues with "Too many tanks"
We also had a short phase with "Too many healers"

I love this game

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No wow has the same problem with raiding.
You need way less tanks then you need healers and dps compared to a normal group composition. Which then translates to tanks having a harder time finding a raid spot and in return less tanks for those 5m.

For example if everyone that kills titan wants to do coil afterwards you either have half the groups left with only 1 tank or half the groups have to go kill titan again with another tank.
Its simply a mathematical stupid mistake from SE to not make titan a 2 tank fight.

I would go so far as to say... make Mountain Buster hit harder, a LOT harder, to the point where it would oneshot a single tank... now make it split damage on up to 2 targets. Then knock about... maybe 15% off of Titan's HP...
And we're done! Titan is now a 2 tank, 2 healer, 4 dps fight, where the 2nd tank acts as a dps for the first half + heart burn, and serves as a sponge for half the damage of Mountain Buster in the second half.

Only thing that would need to be adjusted is to put a flag on anyone hit by Mountain Buster so that person cannot be targeted for Weight of the Land OR for Landslide. This will prevent issues of having someone near the tank causing Weights and Landslides to come flying in their direction.

There is just to many tanks in the game to be honest to match up to the content that needs them.

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Originally Posted by Kiaris

There is just to many tanks in the game to be honest to match up to the content that needs them.

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DPS being screwed-over by jerk tanks and going back into long queues would like a word with you.

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Originally Posted by Kraggy

DPS being screwed-over by jerk tanks and going back into long queues would like a word with you.

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I don't pug so i wouldn't know of this duty finder issue.

This is a challenge I believe. The only way is to form your own party, but even then you'll usually have to compete for party members with 2 or 3 other tanks who are doing the same thing. A FC that will repeat the fight for all their tank members is probably the best conceivable model. If you have access to that.

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Originally Posted by Illya

I tried this tonight with a party of FC mates. I threw together a bunch of AK chain gear which I had laying around from too many AK runs, but I didn't have any DPS accessories. I was parsing 100-105 DPS while the well-geared SMN in the party parsed in the 170's. Running 1 tank, 3 healers, 4 DPS (including me), our party did not have enough DPS to pass the heart phase even with LB2.

I could grind CM speedruns and deck myself out with all DPS accessories and maybe a few pieces of DL chain but the thought of doing a dozen or more CM speedruns just to have the DPS to pass this one fight after which I'll probably never DPS again with WAR makes my soul hurt.

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100dps should be fine if you're using berserk on the heart. There's no reason to use 3 healers with a gladiator tank, and if your DPS are doing 170dps, the heart should be dying every time.

I've killed Titan twice while dpsing, the first time I did about 100dps, the second time 130dps, neither time did we have any trouble killing the heart. The 3 healer group comp is for Warrior tank, and even then it's still possible with 2 healers if you have a Warrior. Have one of your FC's SCH go SMN for this fight if you need to. It doesn't take much dps to kill the heart consistently if you have 5 dps, so the smn doesn't need to do much damage.

First kill a few weeks back when we had crappy gear was something like this:

Bard/Monk/BLM ~150dps
Monk ~120dps
Me ~100dps

And we had no problems with the heart (Using LB1 on it)

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Originally Posted by CurlyBruce

You should be parsing higher than that easily, at least 130-140. Also grab an extra DPS and nix the third healer, you don't need a third healer for Titan. 2 Healers is plenty for keeping the tank alive and the only move the DPS should be hit by is Tumult. DL Chain gear can't be equipped by Warrior/Paladin anymore its Dragoon exclusive now, but the Heavy DL set has 2 more STR and more Crit than the DRG set anyway. DL accessories are also dirt cheap and easy to obtain while functioning on multiple jobs, so that could easily bump your DPS by a bit. And if you don't already have it, I highly suggest getting Garuda Axe.

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I have Garuda's Scream. Should I be equipping Heavy DL Legs+Feet, AF+1 Chest, and any helmet rather than AK Chain? And do you have a suggestion for DPS rotation on WAR, since I've never DPSed on WAR before?

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Originally Posted by Tanaya

Make your own party.

Or, you can be a badass and make a 5-Tanks, 1 DPS, 2 Healers party like my server. They actually got past the heart phase.

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I'm on your server and I was in that group. We had a blast while we were doing it because we didn't expect it to go so well. The problem is convincing other people to do the same because it isn't you know...THE OMGAWESOMEDOCUMENTEDSTRATEGY that is the only one that works. Ever.

Funnily enough, every single time the attempts failed it was because the DPS screwed up.

We came back again with 4 tanks and 2 melee DPS and never once did we get past the heart. I think that says a lot about that fight, the required DPS and the average quality of players.

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Originally Posted by Illya

I have Garuda's Scream. Should I be equipping Heavy DL Legs+Feet, AF+1 Chest, and any helmet rather than AK Chain? And do you have a suggestion for DPS rotation on WAR, since I've never DPSed on WAR before?

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If you have AF+1 Chest then yes, that plus AK head gives a bigger bonus than Heavy DL body. DPS rotation for WAR is pretty simple. At the start of the fight pop Internal Release and Berserk and start off with Storm's Eye combo. Then switch to Butcher's Block combo and Fracture. Rinse repeat. When Pacification from Berserk is active you can toss out a Brutal Swing for a bit of extra DPS since its an ability not a WS and every little bit helps. If you Internal Release + Berserk at the start of fight, it will be up before Heart Phase so you should save it until then. During Heart save IR/Zerk until the first person gets rocked, if you use it from the get go and you are the one who gets rocked you'll have wasted almost all of your Berserk time and will be stuck with Pacification once you get out. If someone else gets rocked pop your cooldowns and start with Butcher's Block combo. It should take 1 Butcher combo + up to Maim to break the rock, then hit Titan with Storm's Eye to maximize Storm's Eye + Zerk uptime.

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Originally Posted by CurlyBruce

If you have AF+1 Chest then yes, that plus AK head gives a bigger bonus than Heavy DL body. DPS rotation for WAR is pretty simple. At the start of the fight pop Internal Release and Berserk and start off with Storm's Eye combo. Then switch to Butcher's Block combo and Fracture. Rinse repeat. When Pacification from Berserk is active you can toss out a Brutal Swing for a bit of extra DPS since its an ability not a WS and every little bit helps. If you Internal Release + Berserk at the start of fight, it will be up before Heart Phase so you should save it until then. During Heart save IR/Zerk until the first person gets rocked, if you use it from the get go and you are the one who gets rocked you'll have wasted almost all of your Berserk time and will be stuck with Pacification once you get out. If someone else gets rocked pop your cooldowns and start with Butcher's Block combo. It should take 1 Butcher combo + up to Maim to break the rock, then hit Titan with Storm's Eye to maximize Storm's Eye + Zerk uptime.

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Very helpful, thank you.

We killed Titan HM tonight, following the 1 tank 5 DPS 2 healers comp. Thanks to the people who posted in this thread with useful info!

Sorry, a bit off topic. What is the recommended HP amount to have for Titan btw as a PLD?

Any tips on how a warrior can handle the second half of the fight and deal with mountain busters? Nailing out my last DL piece, have the myth chestpiece and working on Garuda axe weapon.

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Originally Posted by Kryzen

Sorry, a bit off topic. What is the recommended HP amount to have for Titan btw as a PLD?

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i would like to know this too. i have around 4.6-4.7k hp right now, is that good enough or am i going to have to grind castrum for more dl gear?

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Originally Posted by saber_alter

i would like to know this too. i have around 4.6-4.7k hp right now, is that good enough or am i going to have to grind castrum for more dl gear?

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Average i-level of 65, so an even split between Darklight and Hoplite at the very least.

Personally, I feel 5k HP is the minimum.

anywhere north of 4.7k is acceptable, as long as you understand when to blow your CDs I suppose? If mountain buster hits for anywhere around 3.8k and he moves into stomps you'll be in a slight bit of trouble sometimes if healers aren't on the ball. Also depends if your bards/smn/whm/sch know when to use virus and rain of death etc etc.

To be honest, as a tank, even as a geared PLD tank who's spent hours and hours on the fight...
Just buy a kill.
Its 200-250k on most servers, just go and buy the fu*king kill and be done with it. (You can probably sense my general hostility to the situation here)

Simply put, if you are not in an FC where people are essentially trying to get you gear so you can get into Coil, you are kinda screwed as a tank. People like to take the same tanks, who already have relics, and do it for some dps or healer. We, as tanks get screwed.

I cant say that I am happy with the situation, or that I am in favor of this business of FC's selling Titan kills and some people dicking around in groups, TRYING to make them fail to prompt more people to buy kills... but sadly it is what it is.

I bought my kill yesterday for 200k as PLD. Yes I am poorer, BUT, its is one less headache to worry about. Find a legit group, write down all of their names and FC's, in case they do try to scam you... and just get it over with and move on... There is a big difference between someone with bad gear and no Titan XP buying a relic simply because they can, and someone WITH good gear and xp buying a relic because they have almost no other options.

Still hope that Yoshi would finlay say something, and not that shitty "l2p" from TGC.

SE should see that Warriors compared to Paladin are underpowerd.


i feel like Kenji, on my Server, Warrior are not welcome for Titan HM as MT. That sucks really.

But still, i dont want to buy a kill... either SE will buff Warrior so i can Tank this shit, or my FC Need to take the burden, and heal me there.....

or you could simply wait untill the bring crystal tower out which is suppose to be progression before coil anyway, and the innevitable Titan HM nerf anyways, and stop trying to rush relic when its really not needed as a tank for non coil stuff, i dont see why 99% of the people who are rushing relic have no static FC or even plan on doing serious coil raiding

As a Warrior tanking Titan, you have to save your "oh shit" Buttons for the Mountain Busters (i.e. Thrill of Battle and Infuriate/Inner Beast). Those come always after the Bombs,so make youre you dodge all of them. If you got hit by one or two, heal yourself or Pop Thrill of Battle but remember you need one of the two incase the Mountain Buster Crits!

We didn´t kill Titan with a DPS LB, because we used the Tank Limit for the Last Stomp Phase.

The Fight is Hard as a Warrior but not impossible by any Stretch. If you have Healers who know how to heal a Warrior (not just for Titan), are able the dodge the Bombs (probably the most Important ,since that enables you to save you´re CD´s for use after the Mountain Busters) and know when to Pop you´re CD´s, then youre good to go.

I had Full DL + Garudas Scream + 1 iLVL 90 Ring before i even tried Titan with my FC. ~ 7.5k HP was enough for that, even if it was close sometimes.

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Originally Posted by TheWitcher

or you could simply wait untill the bring crystal tower out which is suppose to be progression before coil anyway, and the innevitable Titan HM nerf anyways, and stop trying to rush relic when its really not needed as a tank for non coil stuff, i dont see why 99% of the people who are rushing relic have no static FC or even plan on doing serious coil raiding

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So, you say "Warrior can wait til CT is out, grab CT gear and then do Titan/Coil"... bad question... WHY can Paladin do Coil and Titan HM with current gear?

You see, mainpoint from all These "cry me river" Threads in Forum is, the Gab between Warrior and Paladin is way to much. Warrior Need a Buff. Point.

Considering ho many people have completed titan hm... I highly doubt they'll nerf it. Its a completely balanced fight which is obviously doable.