Should I switch to Bard?

Hello, and I apologize if this is the wrong forum for this to be posted in.

I leveled DRG as my first class to 50, but now that I'm here I find myself wondering if I have made a mistake. I know that dragoons are not broken, per se, but I'm starting to think I might be limiting my potential usefulness to a FC or PuG as a melee class rather than ranged. Admittedly, my gear's rather awful at the moment, but I'm more concerned about long-term usefulness.

I should think a Bard to be the best replacement, due to their supposed plethora of utilities, but I thought it best to ask the general population for input on the best course of action before I make my decision.

Tldr: Should I shelf my DRG and level up as a BRD, or stick it out and suck it up?

We'll I'm a monk but I wish i leveled dragoon or bard. I would say if you like to play melee stick with dragoon.

Just remember there isnt likely ever going to be a support class, its DPS with utility so ultimately do you prefer stab stab or pew pew? This is an mmo, classes will get buffed and nerfed for its duration. If everyone rolls BRD then SE are eventually going to make adjustments to make other classes viable.

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Originally Posted by Tribunus

Just remember there isnt likely ever going to be a support class, its DPS with utility so ultimately do you prefer stab stab or pew pew? This is an mmo, classes will get buffed and nerfed for its duration. If everyone rolls BRD then SE are eventually going to make adjustments to make other classes viable.

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I wound up with a Bard because in Verison 1 I played PGL until level 14 and then stopped playing.

When I got an email about Version 2 beta I was like, "ok one more try" , I played Archer on both beta and when it went live. So at level 30 I remembered someone mentioning Bard is level 15 PGL+30 ARC. So I only had to finish off one level.

However because of the insanely long delays to get into the Duty Finder queue, I was like... gonna roll a healer just cause. So I got to level 30 on Conjurer and 15 on Arcanist. Queue delays are shorter, but it's like 45min vs 8.

So then I started rolling a tank and ran out of inventory space.

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So then I started rolling a tank and ran out of inventory space.

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You can place itens in your "bank" to use later, If you have no use for your AGI gear at the moment.

OP: Play what you like. If you're good at it your FC will want you in their groups.

1. Dragoons have good utility. You have your Limit Break which is the best for Bosses. You are tankier and you can offtank a bit when the Tank dies. And u have 2 stuns and a Dmg buff for Bards and other Dragoons.
2. There are too many Bards. Everyone rerolls a Bard because its so op atm. There will be a point where there will be too many of them and it will be hard to find a grp. Unless SE nerf them.

So if you like Dragoon keep playing it. If not try other classes. But i really wouldnt suggest playing a Bard. Bards will get nerfed for sure. If not there will be a big problem for the game.

i would say play what ever you like but in this game it seems you get forced to switch classes, one of many reasons why ppl leave

When early access launched I started leveling my Monk... Through my journey to level 50 on my Monk I played with all the other DPS classes because of the dungeon story quests.

When I finally hit 50 and looked at my Monk I was unimpressed. Fun class to play, BUT...

When I looked at the best class for fight mechanics dps and survey of on going battlefield mechanics there was a clear winner... Bard.

Bards can move and dps at the same time... melee can as well, but not from range. BLM are great if you have time to sit in a spot and spam spells. But if you need to constantly move and dps/support (think Demon Wall). I don't think there's a better choice than Bard.

So now my 50 bard is decently geared, so is my 50 monk thanks to Greed rolls and running AK so many times.

I'm questioning how people are able to beat DPS races/enrage timers with multiple bards (seeing as people stack them)...they do much less DPS than any DPS class.

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Originally Posted by savant07

I'm questioning how people are able to beat DPS races/enrage timers with multiple bards (seeing as people stack them)...they do much less DPS than any DPS class.

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I'm not sure where you're getting your info from but I'd double check your sources if I were you.

Yes. Lets all jump on the bandwagon~

i rolled bard and now leveling DRG , the AF2 of DRG is badass , plus being melee is fun :3 , the LB2 and 3 are cool as hell :D , cant wait for Samurai , ninja or thief :D

and there are so many BRDs that pugs , fill the BRD slot in seconds.

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Originally Posted by Rust_

I'm not sure where you're getting your info from but I'd double check your sources if I were you.

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Well it's what I got from talking to people who were doing Coil 4 and 5, including people who stream plus people on these forums as well. Bards are not wanted for their DPS but for their utility. I suppose what they lack in DPS they provide in support. Black mages and summoners are leagues ahead in DPS...melee too except mechanics own them.

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Originally Posted by Salviss

Tldr: Should I shelf my DRG and level up as a BRD, or stick it out and suck it up?

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Play the class you like the most. BRD will without a doubt be nerfed anyway.

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Originally Posted by savant07

I'm questioning how people are able to beat DPS races/enrage timers with multiple bards (seeing as people stack them)...they do much less DPS than any DPS class.

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Can you stop staying non-sense all over the forum. It's getting really annoying.

BLM does more dmg, ofc this can depend on which boss.

I expect big changes in bard in the near future. When you use the df and are more likely to have another bard that means too many people are playing them.

This is just my experience in df and may just be a fluke but I play with far more bards than any other dps class.

I was forced to reroll Bard for Coil Progression despite having monk with Relic and full DL Gear :/

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Originally Posted by savant07

Black mages and summoners are leagues ahead in DPS...melee too except mechanics own them.

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Any proof ? like a clear pharser report or screenshot , cause as for now you are just blabbering nonsense .

just play what job you want, it's your character anyway. follow your heart. lol

It really depends on play style. Don't switch classes just because you think Bards might be received better, because in the end people look for players who know HOW to play their role. If you can play your class well, it doesn't matter what you are. And personally, I have seen some really awesome Dragoons.

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Originally Posted by Pacifer

Any proof ? like a clear pharser report or screenshot , cause as for now you are just blabbering nonsense .

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You can ask every FC/streamer who are in coil 4 or 5. They will all say summoners/black mages will always out DPS bards. Bards are the worse of the ranged classes. They are not top DPS. They are only wanted for their song. Stop claiming otherwise when you yourself have NOT AT ALL experienced that side of raiding/end game and not even asked/theorycrafted with other end game FC players.

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Originally Posted by savant07

You can ask every FC/streamer who are in coil 4 or 5. They will all say summoners/black mages will always out DPS bards. Bards are the worse of the ranged classes. They are not top DPS. They are only wanted for their song. Stop claiming otherwise when you yourself have NOT AT ALL experienced that side of raiding/end game and not even asked/theorycrafted with other end game FC players.

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lol...
Bards are doing very good dps in BC, parsers are still screwed with DOT damage and will always put Summoners on top dps in the list so you really cant tell if a Summoner is actually doing that much or not.
BLM could possibly out dps a bard, but they are both pretty close, however bard brings much more to BC then a BLM or Summoner. BRDS are needed for silencing bosses and songs. Multiple bards = infinite TP and Mana + solid DPS which is much better than just DPS.

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Originally Posted by savant07

You can ask every FC/streamer who are in coil 4 or 5. They will all say summoners/black mages will always out DPS bards. Bards are the worse of the ranged classes. They are not top DPS. They are only wanted for their song. Stop claiming otherwise when you yourself have NOT AT ALL experienced that side of raiding/end game and not even asked/theorycrafted with other end game FC players.

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Nice troll. Have you even set foot in coil ?

I am not even going to bother explain why you are wrong since you have not experienced end game.

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Originally Posted by Thotor

Nice troll. Have you even set foot in coil ?

I am not even going to bother explain why you are wrong since you have not experienced end game.

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I bet you haven't if you thinking bringing a bard is good DPS compared to other ranged classes. Bring them for the song if your healers need it but don't expect to down encounters faster.

If you are already asking the question lol....... May as well..

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Originally Posted by Thotor

Nice troll. Have you even set foot in coil ?

I am not even going to bother explain why you are wrong since you have not experienced end game.

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I've been on Turn 5 for about 2 weeks now. Let me explain why you're wrong. Bahamut Coil turn 1, melee and black mage actually are higher DPS than Bard because the Bard is busy pulling/DPSing slimes but you can stack Bards here just because you can't find anyone good enough to play melee. You can bring 2 Bards to Turn 2 for ezmode Silence rotation but your kill speed is terrible because ADS has a piercing resistance. Bard + Paladin Silence rotation is best here with the rest being ranged. Bards gets out DPS'd in turn 2 100% all the time. Turn 3 is just a giant troll. Turn 4 is where it gets interesting. You have 1 minute between waves to kill the mobs before the next wave spawns. Bringing more than 2 Bards here is failure waiting to happen but not recommended bringing 2 here either unless you're overgeared as you have some pretty damn hard DPS checks.

Then we get to Turn 5. Let me tell you about Turn 5. Turn 5 is made so that you will fail. Fail a lot. Because of DPS, because of healing, because of HP, because of random number generator. No amount of Bards will save you here and you WILL fail 100% with 2 or more Bards. You need the high DPS/burst of melee AND ranged. Or you fail. And that's just 75%-50%.

If all people are doing is pugging and doing Bahamut's Coil turns 1 and 2, go ahead and stack Bard all you want. It will not get you far in Turns 4-5.

You know there is 2 path for Turn 2 ? One fore mages and one for bards/DRG ? Just because you take the path for the mages, doesn't mean that bard is behind. If you take the BRD/DRG path , BRD will be ahead.
That's completely stupid to say that one dps is better than the other in turn 2. The fact remains you need bard for silence.

Turn 1 , you say bard must nerf himself because of slimes ? First, this is a dps team fight. There is 4 dps, slimes pulling is not done by 1 person. Plus, you forget that you have to dps those slime. There is no DPS loss.


Beside no one said you should have 4 bard. That's just silly. However BRD is currently the only mandatory DPS in coil. You can switch others dps but Bard is needed.
As for dps, I am sorry to say but Bard is ahead in parser for single target dps (not by much anyway) due to multiple factor including the fact that bard is capped in accuracy way before other class.

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Originally Posted by savant07

You can ask every FC/streamer who are in coil 4 or 5. They will all say summoners/black mages will always out DPS bards. Bards are the worse of the ranged classes. They are not top DPS. They are only wanted for their song. Stop claiming otherwise when you yourself have NOT AT ALL experienced that side of raiding/end game and not even asked/theorycrafted with other end game FC players.

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I can top DPS chart as Monk using 2 skills.

Touch of Death and Fracture.


Yep that how reliable are Parsers


Anyhow, having Monk and Bard at 50 is awesome, I can switch on need depending on boss while still gearing monk ^_^

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Originally Posted by ilJumperMT

I can top DPS chart as Monk using 2 skills.

Touch of Death and Fracture.


Yep that how reliable are Parsers


Anyhow, having Monk and Bard at 50 is awesome, I can switch on need depending on boss while still gearing monk ^_^

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It may be accurate but not THAT inaccuarate.

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Originally Posted by savant07

It may be accurate but not THAT inaccuarate.

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Actually try it. It even counts fracture as 30 seconds duration.

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Originally Posted by Thotor

You know there is 2 path for Turn 2 ? One fore mages and one for bards/DRG ? Just because you take the path for the mages, doesn't mean that bard is behind. If you take the BRD/DRG path , BRD will be ahead.
That's completely stupid to say that one dps is better than the other in turn 2. The fact remains you need bard for silence.

Turn 1 , you say bard must nerf himself because of slimes ? First, this is a dps team fight. There is 4 dps, slimes pulling is not done by 1 person. Plus, you forget that you have to dps those slime. There is no DPS loss.


Beside no one said you should have 4 bard. That's just silly. However BRD is currently the only mandatory DPS in coil. You can switch others dps but Bard is needed.
As for dps, I am sorry to say but Bard is ahead in parser for single target dps (not by much anyway) due to multiple factor including the fact that bard is capped in accuracy way before other class.

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Mandatory DPS? No, not even close. Mandatory DPS implies you MUST have it in a Coil group to be able to meet DPS checks which is functionally false. Bard is mandatory because of the utility they bring, not DPS. Our Bard only does 2 slimes in the very beginning, we don't pop anymore after that, so again, you're wrong in saying that slimes pulling is not done by 1 person. You're right in that it is a DPS team fight but we're not arguing that. You're argument is that you NEED a Bard for his DPS/Silence, which again, is wrong. You NEED a Bard for his utility. You don't even need a Bard to silence. We've had a Monk solo silence ADS in Turn 2 because they didn't have a Bard that night.

As for DPS, I am sorry to say but Bard is not ahead in the parser for single target DPS all things being equal. The parser isn't even all that accurate so take the numbers with a grain of salt. But you want parser numbers? Here you go. Turn 1 parse since it's pretty much the fairest test and the closest to a tank and spank fight in Coil. Even in this fight, our Black Mage had to pop 1 and the Bard only popped 1 slime. Keep in mind I had to STOP DPS for a good 5-8 seconds of the fight while the Tanks split the snakes up.

Turn 1

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Originally Posted by Risbyn

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Finally someone with some sense in this thread. And good DPS man, specially as a melee which I find have a much harder rotation and far more difficult time in bosses.

Your black mage is slacking though! :P He should be like 250!

Quick question: Does your parser give you a breakdown of how much each ability deals including DoTs?

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Originally Posted by Risbyn

As for DPS, I am sorry to say but Bard is not ahead in the parser for single target DPS all things being equal. The parser isn't even all that accurate so take the numbers with a grain of salt. But you want parser numbers? Here you go. Turn 1 parse since it's pretty much the fairest test and the closest to a tank and spank fight in Coil. Even in this fight, our Black Mage had to pop 1 and the Bard only popped 1 slime. Keep in mind I had to STOP DPS for a good 5-8 seconds of the fight while the Tanks split the snakes up.

Turn 1

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sorry but you are wrong on bard DPS... the only thing that can compete with a bard is a summoner and summoners do not have the utility or burst of a bard. All melee is behind ranged in this game and that is the fault of the devs. If as a monk you are beating bards then you need to get better bards. The biggest problem with bards is people herd they are "OP" which is false but bad players flock to what they think is OP to cover a lack of skill, therefore 99% of the bards out there are bad.
My guild is one of the first 5 to kill turn 4 we build our groups of what gets the work done the fastest and melee just doesn't come in as they are a liability. they are lower DPS then ranged and the only positive they have is the limit break which is not needed on any fight.

BTW the reason your DPS os showing that high is because monks are broken you were given teh damage of someone elses dots,,, you need to take off about 70 DPS for your DPS. However i think you know that as the real damage breakdown would show that most of your damage was not done by you. Its a problem with monks they never parse correctly because the parser copies someones dots over to you. Also if you look the mages is collecting someone elses data as well seeing how there is not enough gear in the game to give a mage 20% crit.

Isn't that the same with summoner DoTs and maybe even Bard DoTs in that DoTs all in all are never really being parsed correctly? How is it that you are sure summoners beat bards in the same way you are sure his DPS is wrong?

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Originally Posted by savant07

Isn't that the same with summoner DoTs and maybe even Bard DoTs in that DoTs all in all are never really being parsed correctly? How is it that you are sure summoners beat bards in the same way you are sure his DPS is wrong?

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by doing isolated testing. instead of testing a bard vs a summoner at the same time, you do one "vacuum" test of having only the summoner attack a dummy then doing the same with a bard so no dots are transfered. When you parse solo it does track dots correctly, you can math the increases on the parser with the numbers you see on screen if you use 2 monitors.

There is a monk skill that when used the parser breaks and copies all of someones dots and gives them to the monk adding them to his DPS... if you looked at the damage breakdown i would best that bard dots are in the monks damage per action log. He knows this that is why he posts that pic instead of one showing his breakdown. He was to pretend he is far better then he really is as monks in game are not capable of pulling that high of DPS even on a dummy.

I think your FC are pretty lucky you care as much as you do, to level another class just for them. Albeit it might help you to some degree to. However surely usefulness is measured in different ways? For example, wouldn't it be useful to have a good DRG DPS that knew how to play his/her class well and had boss mechanics down to a Tee? That contribution would be just as valid as any offering from another class.

If however you feel that the play style is something you don't like or you think you might like the play style of a BRD why not try one out for a few levels and see what you think. Can't hurt can it?

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Originally Posted by Eckoh

snip (thanks for the info btw)

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But are summoner DoTs showing their proper damage? Can you show a breakdown of each DoT and know that they are doing the correct damage rather than inflated numbers? I've heard some reports (some conflicting ones) where the damage of the DoTs being shown in the parser are higher than what they should be (such as thunder doing 500 in game but 800 in parser) and I think there's still an issue with Miasma in the parser in that if Miasma crits, it crits all DoTs on the target.

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Originally Posted by Kurauk

I think your FC are pretty lucky you care as much as you do, to level another class just for them. Albeit it might help you to some degree to. However surely usefulness is measured in different ways? For example, wouldn't it be useful to have a good DRG DPS that knew how to play his/her class well and had boss mechanics down to a Tee? That contribution would be just as valid as any offering from another class.

If however you feel that the play style is something you don't like or you think you might like the play style of a BRD why not try one out for a few levels and see what you think. Can't hurt can it?

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Having a DRG is GREAT. It buffs bard dps by about 8-9%. And since most groups have 2 bards...

can some one confirm that problem with monk taking over other dots in parse?

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Originally Posted by savant07

But are summoner DoTs showing their proper damage? Can you show a breakdown of each DoT and know that they are doing the correct damage rather than inflated numbers? I've heard some reports (some conflicting ones) where the damage of the DoTs being shown in the parser are higher than what they should be (such as thunder doing 500 in game but 800 in parser) and I think there's still an issue with Miasma in the parser in that if Miasma crits, it crits all DoTs on the target.

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when a summoner is by himself they do track correctly.. however when in groups summoners get all messed up and it can be compounded depending on the classes its being parsed with. For instance get a summoner to cast just 1 dot on a target dummy and it tracks right... he can even do all his dots and they track right... however put a summoner with a monk and the monk will get the summoners dots added to his damage. Put 2 summoners together and everything gets messed up.