So.. About that endgame gear progression..

This isn't a thread about me complaining about it, it's just.. I kinda got to thinking.
Currently the gear progression either doesn't make sense, or the community has kinda.. shoehorned themselves into an awkward position gear-wise. I'm not sure which, or if it isn't even a little bit of both!

Let's see..
Item level 50-55 gear is handed to us outright, that's our Artifact Armor.
Item level 60 gear is dropped in Amdapor Keep.
Item level 70 gear is bought with tomestones, that's Darklight.
Item level 90 gear is bought with different tomestones, that's Artifact Armor 2.

Let's uh.. not get into Allagan armor for the sake of arguement for the moment.
Something in the above example isn't adding up to me..

See, a lot of people say you need Darklight to run Amdapor efficiently, you can get Tomestones to buy Darklight in Castrum, but.. wait a second here.. item level 60 gear drops in Amdapor? Uh.. That doesn't seem right.. It sounds like (at least at a glance) that we're expected to run Amdapor before we even get Darklight, and gear ourselves up there.

But wait a second.. Tomestones of Mythology drop in Amdapor too, which gets us our Item level 90 gear.. now that DOES seem to suggest we'd be in Darklight if we're farming for AF2, eh? But erm.. Yeah. This doesn't add up. It seems like SE had two ideas here and they're conflicting a bit.. seems like the community as a whole has already made up their minds on gear progression too, and it seems like almost everyone is skipping Amdapor gear? Or maybe not skipping it by choice, but are rather being shoehorned out of it because no one wants someone in AF doing Amdapor? I realize you can gear straight to Darklight in Castrum, so ultimately this isn't a showstopper or anything, it just seems.. weird to me?

Likewise I've been reading posts on the forums lately where people are wanting high level gear in Castrum now too, just so they can run it that much faster.. which is probably not helping this awkward gear progression issue, since uh.. there's really not a whole lot of options left for people to get gear. lol

Like I said I'm not posting this to complain, I just find this situation.. curious.. I was also wondering what everyone else's thoughts are on this?

Me and some of my FC bros run this dungeon with no problems and we started with AF gear. AK is super easy. I have full AK gear and I've tanked titan, easily. Honestly DL is only slightly better than AK gear. If people don't know your skill they usually require high gear. It's how it always is. But for those who grinded castrum... They are kinda... Meh. Huge waste of time when AK gives you just as much mythology and also gives philosophy. Even in WoW people require you to have the raid gear to do the raid, which is just stupid.

Edit: long story short, right after you hit 50 you are more than ready to tackle AK. As long as your gear is not SUPER bad like all 40 whites. (which is impossible because you get AF gear free.)

gear progression seems a bit off to me aswell...

that's why i'm basically skipping most of the DL (except accessoires) and go straight for AF2. the ilvl60 stuff from ak should fill the gap till then.
don't see a reason to waste my time in castrum when i can get phil and myth tomes from ak...

i guess the only reason that the last story dungeons give tomes is so that there are always people running them for those.
otherwise people doing it for the mainquest could be stuck here if not enough people need to do it!?

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Originally Posted by kollwitz

gear progression seems a bit off to me aswell...

that's why i'm basically skipping most of the DL (except accessoires) and go straight for AF2. the ilvl60 stuff from ak should fill the gap till then.
don't see a reason to waste my time in castrum when i can get phil and myth tomes from ak...

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Yep.

I'd say Square dropped the ball on endgame gear progression, but it's more like they tosses it. Out a window. At children.

Heck, I'd be slightly more OK with getting iLv70 stuff (the crafted stuff, too), if there was actually anything I could do with it once I get iLv90... Can convert the crafted gear probably, though that's still a fairly huge loss, but Darklight? Trade it for seals I guess? Boy, I hope that the new ranks for Grand Companies offer some amazing gear and not the utter trash we get now (on that note, OP, don't forget to add that you need to clear Amdapor to reach the final GC rank to obtain.... Gear worse than Amdapor drops....).

I imagine the forced gear requirement for content might "fix" some of my issues with this though... I mean, I went from finishing the main quest in full AF to Titan in one sitting, but if they're now going to say "STOP! YOU CAN'T DO IFRIT WITHOUT A DARKLIGHT WEAPON! YOU CANT DO GARUDA WITHOUT AN IFRIT WEAPON! YOU CANT DO TITAN WITHOUT A GARUDA WEAPON!" and so on, then you're pretty much forced to farm Primals and Ifrit/Garuda aren't complete and utter jokes... Still the laziest possible method for fixing endgame though, I hope they don't keep that up for future patches, I actually like this game and would like to keep playing... A gear requirement on endgame would be a half good idea if gear actually meant a damn, it damn sure helps but for the most part "skill" is what matters, and farming Amdapor/Castrum/etc all day does not teach you a damn thing about the Primal mechanics... Titan is piss easy when people aren't eating WotL constantly, Darklight gear helps with the heart phase and it'll generally speed up the run, but it damn sure isn't a requirement...

I've done AK myself in AF, so I'm not questioning that it can be done. I know it can be done. It's just.. yeah, the community kinda wants you in Darklight for it. Yet ilvl 60 gear drops in AK, and oddly enough AK gives mythology toward ilvl90 gear? I uh.. I dunno, this is just weird to me. It feels like something between SE's design and some of the community hitting top gear faster than others has left us at.. a blockade, so to speak. The playerbase is kinda walling us off from the dungeon that gives us the gear SE apparently expected us to get after AF, yet the same dungeon has some pretty heavy hitting things in it, and gives you marks toward ilvl90 gear which is.. quite a bit higher.

I just don't get it.

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Originally Posted by kollwitz

gear progression seems a bit off to me aswell...

that's why i'm basically skipping most of the DL (except accessoires) and go straight for AF2. the ilvl60 stuff from ak should fill the gap till then.
don't see a reason to waste my time in castrum when i can get phil and myth tomes from ak...

i guess the only reason that the last story dungeons give tomes is so that there are always people running them for those.
otherwise people doing it for the mainquest could be stuck here if not enough people need to do it!?

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You can't really skip darklight. The cap and grinding for mythology ensures that you will be swimming in philosophy. 8 AK runs per week and it gives 80 philosophy per clear. That's 640 philosophy every week if you're capping mythology.

My gear progression has been fine so far. I did Artifact Armor -> Some Wander's Palace gear -> A few Darklight pieces (accessories) -> AK gear -> mix between Darklight upgrades & working on Artifact Armor 2. Seems perfectly fine to me...

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Originally Posted by Zarath

My gear progression has been fine so far. I did Artifact Armor -> Some Wander's Palace gear -> A few Darklight pieces (accessories) -> AK gear -> mix between Darklight upgrades & working on Artifact Armor 2. Seems perfectly fine to me...

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Well yeah, I'm pretty sure that's the intended progression as well. I'm not knocking that, actually this thread isn't even a complaint as I said. It's just.. an observation of the design, mixed in a bit with the community and their behavior. If you ask most runners about AK, they tell you that you need Darklight, as an example, which is suppose to be after AK, but AK drops gear prior to Darklight.. etc etc.. You could chalk it all up to the community being silly if you wanted, but I think that's a bit misguided when the dungeon is obviously also meant to be farmed a bit for ilvl90 gear too..

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Originally Posted by Zarath

My gear progression has been fine so far. I did Artifact Armor -> Some Wander's Palace gear -> A few Darklight pieces (accessories) -> AK gear -> mix between Darklight upgrades & working on Artifact Armor 2. Seems perfectly fine to me...

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Yea the progression is just fine, its the people asking for higher gear than you should have. Seriously your progression is the exact same as mine. Go accessories first FTW

I've been unsuccessful getting through an AK run in my AF gear. However, I'm a warrior and that should say enough about my difficulty in groups from duty finder and my luck putting groups together. World of difference between "PLD LFG ...." and "WAR LFG ..."

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Originally Posted by Krisan

See, a lot of people say you need Darklight to run Amdapor efficiently, you can get Tomestones to buy Darklight in Castrum, but.. wait a second here.. item level 60 gear drops in Amdapor? Uh.. That doesn't seem right.. It sounds like (at least at a glance) that we're expected to run Amdapor before we even get Darklight, and gear ourselves up there.

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it's more just a buffer, as the hardcore crowd is mostly done farming, or rather has completely geared one job at minimum - and they want to run with similarly geared people for quicker farming

I've got 3 jobs geared and done with philos currently, and 5 more that need a full set

if I'm running castrum/praetorium/AK, I'd rather do it with people that have a geared job - it has nothing to do with AK requiring darklight, even now (why did speed runs get nerfed) you can clear it with well over an hour left while your entire group is still wearing entry level gear (read: AF)

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Originally Posted by Vmage

it's more just a buffer, as the hardcore crowd is mostly done farming, or rather has completely geared one job at minimum - and they want to run with similarly geared people for quicker farming

I've got 3 jobs geared and done with philos currently, and 5 more that need a full set

if I'm running castrum/praetorium/AK, I'd rather do it with people that have a geared job - it has nothing to do with AK requiring darklight, even now (why did speed runs get nerfed) you can clear it with well over an hour left while your entire group is still wearing entry level gear (read: AF)

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Oh I understand perfectly well why the community wants it for AK. Whether someone thinks AK is easy or hard, there's an undeniable truth that AK gives you a lot less room for making mistakes. Better gear just means.. you can get by with a few slip-ups a lot better than usual.

That's kinda the thing.. I get it. That's half of why I made this thread..
It's obvious AK can be run in AF, and that seems to be what SE wanted, but at the same time they made it hard enough while in AF that.. a lot of people understandably would prefer the buffer of better gear. But this causes a problem, since the ilvl60 gear drops here. Yet the tomestones for ilvl90 gear also drop here, so obviously the people on that stage have every reason for wanting a smooth run overall, hence the impatience with those in AF. It's kind of.. weird.

SE has dropped the ball on this one, they should have made more ilvl 60 dungeons, everyone just rush to AK when myth points are reset thus result in long queues. They didn't release crystal tower which by right should be done first before coil (see the difference in darklight ilvl 70 and allagan gear ilvl 90, where did ilvl80 go?)

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Originally Posted by LunarEmerald

You can't really skip darklight. The cap and grinding for mythology ensures that you will be swimming in philosophy. 8 AK runs per week and it gives 80 philosophy per clear. That's 640 philosophy every week if you're capping mythology.

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well i can decide not to get it and sit on my tomes, can't i? :p

Having gear from palace mixed with AF helps a ton. But yeah you def dont need dark light gear to do AK.. Its just a ton of groups suck and blame it on not having DL gear.

People want DL in AK because it makes run faster. You can rut it with some pieces from the Palace and everyone will be fine with it.

I did AK in AF gear, but I 'm sure the other folks were in DarkLight. it can't be done if everyone is in AF gear since you can't dps the wall, but not a problem if one guy is in all AF gear.

Strangers will always question you. Like interviewing a job. Just show your certs and use a few smart chosen sentences to make yourself stand out.

I've also completed AK right after I finished CM/Praetorium story. But I won't do it again until my team (yep I'm lucky to have close to full party RL friends playing), gets a few more DL accessories to replace those pink or grey 40's. The wall boss was one more step closer to squishing us and it didn't feel comfartable. I don't see the rush (well unless you already have some server firsts, or there's a possibility of competing for future server firsts) since I started off lazily. Next time we do AK, I'd rather do it easily and more comfortable, being able to kill the demon wall half way through or something.

I'd rather save my conscious for the real end game HM where there is no more gear to gear up and all depends on the number of wipes required for the last person to remember everything correctly.

AK can be done in AF. And if you want to know what I've done with my main class, here it is:

1) Get the best GC accessories.
2) Get my AF gear once I got to 50.
3) Finish the story. Just one run to Castrum Meridianum and Praetorium (I would have done more runs to help on the DF with the shortage of tanks, but I just hate what I found there community wise).
4) A couple of runs to Ifrit HM to get a weapon, both as MT and OT.
5) Run Wanderer's Palace 5-6 times and get some ilvl 55 gear plus more tomes.
6) Buy a Darklight piece with what I had gathered while doing 3) and 5) to improve my worse gear piece.
7) Run AK. Currently doing that to get more tomes, get the cap on Myths, and get some ilvl 60 gear. No hurries on that, but I do at least one run per day, without forcing (key word here) myself to do more than that if I don't feel like doing so. Also, I've even cleared the Demon Wall with more than 20% left with just me and the healer (a FC mate) alive, so I guess that my gear is more than enough for that dungeon even if I'm "just" the tank (note: I'm not saying that I'm pr0, as I think that I'm just an average tank).
8) Complete my relic weapon slowly, without any hurries.

What's next? Once I have some more Darklight parts I'll go to Garuda to get a new weapon (ilvl 70), while doing more weekly AK runs to finish my Darklight and get some relic armor parts on the process. Then try Titan for an ilvl 80 weapon, complete the relic armor and the relic weapon (or even try Coil), etc.

I know that I'm not going for the easy and optimal way to get my gear, but at least I'm not disrupting anyone by doing so (i.e. DF CM speedruns). I hope that at least someone finds this useful or something, or that it at least illustrates that the dungeon progresion is fine and that it's the players the ones that are messing it up themselves, IMHO. SE shouldn't have to police us so that we play the game properly, as they did with the WP and AK fixes.

Of course, doing AK in full DL will save you... ehm... 10 minutes? And yes, it's easier and it gives you more room to make mistakes, but it takes away the fun (the reason we're playing a game, after all), at least for me. Also, I'll never know why some people say that there's a lot of trash mobs in AK. There's more trash in previous dungeons than in that one, and they're easy to kill. But well, to each his own, I guess.

OP, as others have mentioned, you are just misinterpriating what others are saying. AK can more then be done in fresh 50 gear. If you have ifrits weapon it makes it a bit easier for newbies to the demon wall. Most of us that are geared up just want to run it with other geared people. With AK speed runs gone, we want to spend as little time as possible in AK as it needs to be run 7-8 times a week, that may not be much in a span of 7 days but between doing other things/instances/coil in the game its more like a chore really since its being run strictly for the myth tomes and nothing more.

most people just skip Wanderer's Palace gear and straight to AK or Darklight set

my progression is like this:
- ding level 50
- make level 50 HQ crafted green weapon and acc (crafted by my awesome legacy friend)
- complete my main story
- run WP several times (weapon, acc)
- get darklight belt
- start Relic quest
- spam ifrit (still didn't get the weapon up until now)
- spam AK and Castrum
- continue with the Relic quest all the way to Garuda (this is where i am now)