Leveling anything other than my main class is turning into a massive grind of FATE-chasing. I see crowds of people inside some towns just sitting on their mounts waiting for the next FATE to appear. I can't blame them, either, because it just isn't worth your time to do anything other than FATEs to level your sub-classes.
Why?
- Guild leves and Guildhests are only worth running once, because of the bonus experience and gil you get when you run them for the first time. After that, the reward-to-time invested ratio drops dramatically.
- Dungeons are fun and, if you're a tank or healer, you can pretty much grind your way to max level running dungeons if you want to. If you're a DPS, however, it's a whole other story. Queues for DPS classes can last anywhere from 20 -90 minutes, depending on the level of dungeon. Nobody runs them because they just aren't worth it, especially for alts. The experience isn't all that bad, but the gil and chest rewards are pathetic. Six tin pieces (150 gil) as a chest reward in a level 24 dungeon? Or a useless potion? Come on.
- Quests. You run out of them. I understand that you don't want people to level doing quests exclusively. What's happening instead is that people are leveling doing FATEs exclusively.
Suggestions:
- Guild leves - The BASE experience and gil reward on guild leves needs to be increased. Leave the first-time bonus alone, but increase the base. That will encourage people to do them more than just once.
- Guildhests - Same as above. Increase the BASE experience and gil reward. Leave the bonuses alone.
- Dungeons - Leave the experience rewards alone. Increase gil rewards. Re-vamp your loot tables and make the rewards worthwhile. If you're going to put chests in a dungeon, then make sure they're worth fighting for. Many of the groups I've been in who have done the dungeon before won't even bother with them. You need to at least DOUBLE the amount of gil in these chests, or you need to give the current reward to every player in the group. Having a low chance for a random green item to drop would be nice, too. Stop with the random potions. Nobody uses them. (Fixing potions I'll leave for another thread.) The big chests you get after a boss fight are pretty much okay.
- Quests - All "kill" quests (outside of the ones that are part of the main story line) should reset after 7 to 14 days so the sub-classes have some quests to run.
- FATEs - This is the one that will cause you the most trouble because you made these things too juicy, and when you nerf them (and they have to be nerfed) you'll never hear the end of it. (It's always less painful to add to something than it is to take something away.) FATE experience rewards need to be halved. Some FATEs are giving over 15,000 experience for a few minutes work. Think of it this way.... if players are given a choice between doing a quest that will earn them 4,000 - 5,000 experience and will take them 15 minutes, or sitting in a FATE-hub for 5 minutes and then earning 10,000 experience just for showing up and whacking on a few mobs, which do you think they'll choose? Nerf FATE experience. Do it now, while the game is still new. There'll be a backlash. Deal with it.
I'm not saying these suggestions are the be-all-end-all to fix the game. I know that there are going to be a lot of people who read this who will strongly disagree with one or more of them. I'm also confident that there will be just as many people who will agree with one or more of them. I expect to hear a lot more feedback from the former group than the latter.
tldr: Nerf FATEs. Take the experience you remove from FATEs and spread it out between guild leves and guildhests. Increase gil rewards in small dungeon chests. Let "kill" quests re-set for sub-classes.
Levelling: A Few Adjustments Needed....
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09-23-2013, 05:51 AMPapamaxLevelling: A Few Adjustments Needed....
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09-23-2013, 06:31 AMReslin
The big problem is that at some point the only reliable way of leveling up is by doing fates. Even if they moved them to levequests well.. you can only do so much a day. This means you're limited on how many levels you can go up. It also means other than that the game becomes a massive grind. I don't like the idea of constantly running fates but alternatives should be made not taken away.
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09-23-2013, 06:33 AMDorfentyme
A lot of it has been mentioned before.
http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...k-big-concerns.
The White Knights think the game is flawless and that no changes need to be done or ever be done. -
09-23-2013, 06:50 AMAsakuraVN
I don't really like grinding FATEs either, but I'd prefer leveling in an open world, not spending everyday in instances. Because I've spent enough time on them on my main class...
It'd be better if they polish guildleves up a bit & make them worth doing, but I doubt I'd spend my allowance on them, cause I still have to save every point for my crafting class <.<
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09-23-2013, 06:57 AMGenjisamurai
I dont know what to do because fates do NOT work an PS3 anymore. Now that everyone is leveling up subclasses everyone is camping at sanctuaries for fates. PS3 is not subclass/job friendly for leveling.
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09-23-2013, 07:01 AMAltheras
While I wouldn't want to see FATEs nerfed too badly, or at all, I'd like to see other forms of XP gaining brought up to the FATE level so that people have more choices.
I agree that non storyline quests should be repeatable, and more leveling quests need to be added to the game, along with more quest hubs as well.
Guildleves need to give more xp and gil, but if you look for the blue chests that pop up in leves they can have very nice aethereal gear already. Some of the white gear rewards directly from the leves can be very much worth doing the leves for as well. I think adding a bit more xp and gil to leves would be great and maybe increase the frequency of the nice blue chests that can have the shiny gear. =D
Guildhests could do with some buffing up as well. XP, gil, maybe even gear. There just isn't enough to them right now, other than the 'complete them for the first time' bonus.
Increasing xp and gil rewarded from dungeons could be awesome as well, and the chests inside often have the nice shiny gear in them as well, so I don't see why any group would skip the chests. They sometimes have only gil or potions, but often they do have gear. So skipping them does seem unwise. I'd like to see it changed so that they all have gear, which the whole group gets to roll on, and then ALSO have allagan pieces for gil. I would also like to see these pieces given to everyone in the group, rather than one random person. The potions don't hurt anything either, but they should be in there in addition to gear and gil drops.
To those of you who disagree that anything needs to change because "leveling alts is supposed to be hard" or "leveling alts is supposed to take longer!" Your arguments are completely invalid. FATEs are NOT hard, they are boring. There is a HUGE difference. Also it does NOT take longer to level your alts than your main if you just FATE grind them to cap. If anything they take LESS time than your main that way. So for those of you fooling yourselves that this whole thing is working perfectly as intended, take a step back and examine your own arguments against changes for a minute, and you'll see that the reality is a direct contradiction to your arguments. Sadly, trolls will be trolls, and their arguments are often not at all based on fact or reality.
Change is a good thing. Change will move us forward and give us things to look forward to. The best way to keep a game fun, is to offer many options for gameplay and keep it varied and interesting. No one wants to spend the rest of their play time just doing mindless grinds for the sake of leveling alternate classes.
Honestly, with the system the way it is currently, I'm just going to have a few alts. It's more fun to just level 1 or 2 jobs to 50 and then level the classes you need for cross class skills up as far as you need them. Then just swap to another alt and do the same.
Having more things to do, that are equally worth doing, is never a bad thing. Variety is the spice of life! -
09-23-2013, 07:10 AMSentinel
FATEs are not the most efficient way to level your alts, though they are the most accessible way to do so. Things are fine as they are, FATEs will be harder to finish once the initial leveling blitz is done. Leave quests are already more efficient than FATEs if you do them in a group together and Chaining is even faster, arguably 2-8 times faster than any other option out there.
Things are fine as they are, you don't have to do FATEs in order to level, organize a leveling event with your FC and do either leave quests or Chain hunts.
PS: Kill quests are the same as FATEs, you are not resolving anything by adding in kill quests, just because it involves text that only 10% of the community reads and others skip though does not mean it is any different than FATEs. -
09-23-2013, 07:17 AMJynx
TLDR: Leveling is too slow please make it faster.
My Response: Patience is a virtue my children. The game gives you a easy out for your first 3 or so classes to 50 the rest may actually take some time/effort I know it's really a shame but sometimes you have to work for things. -
09-23-2013, 07:54 AMDorfentymeIf you'd like to wrap your head around the actual IDEA of the thread, feel free to read what he wrote, or read the thread that I linked in my previous post in this thread. It'll explain everything to you simply.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jynx
If you fail to understand that this has NOTHING to do with leveling speed, and it has EVERYTHING to do with a monotonous boring grind, then I don't know what else to say.
The game gives you an easy out for ALL classes. Grind fates. Max out all classes in a matter of days. Wow, so groundbreaking. So challenging! -
09-23-2013, 08:36 AMAsakuraVNYou didn't read anything did ya?Quote:
Originally Posted by Jynx
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09-23-2013, 08:39 AMJynxCan't say I had to experience this "Monotonous boring grind" you talk about, just because you have found it to be the path of least resistance doesn't mean it is going to be the most fun or even the best way to get exp.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dorfentyme
The game needs a much longer grind I've said that for eons 1.0 and beyond, if you think I'm here to white knight this game you need to get your eyes checked out. Grinding Fates is not really a "Easy out" as you can see everyone and their grandmother does it and hates it. The solution isn't increasing the exp from any source it should be about nerfing fates to be competative with other content. Fates are easy and should give rather low exp, Dungeons are harder require teamwork and coordination, let your character grow and learn his job along the way should give great exp. There should be ways for people to get experience in the open world that isn't killing X ammount of Monster or waiting for a giant blue circle to show up.
There are alot of things the game needs, but a INCREASE to any experience gained is not one of them. -
09-23-2013, 09:01 AMPapamaxThat's the way it is right now. Leveling up anything but your main class (the one you complete the story with) is done by FATEs only. The game (design) made that choice for you. By spreading out the experience between FATEs, guild leves, and guildhests, the overall leveling speed wouldn't change. You'd just have more options than you do now.Quote:
Originally Posted by Reslin
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09-23-2013, 09:05 AMDorfentymeIf they nerfed FATE's and didn't buff anything else, I could almost get behind that as well. More people would queue or run dungeons, which I'd rather do. Plus it teaches people how to play their class. I don't think the leveling in its current state needs to slow down, its too late for that. I would've been perfectly fine with the game taking 300 hours to hit max level, so long as the content supported it without it feeling like a boring or monotonous grind.(Which CAN be done, btw)Quote:
Originally Posted by Jynx
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09-23-2013, 09:08 AMPapamaxYour post is bang on. The only difference between mine and yours is that I tried to offer possible solutions.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dorfentyme
BTW.... who are these "White Knights" you speak of? -
09-23-2013, 09:18 AMPapamaxHuh? Nowhere in my post is there even a hint of complaint about the leveling speed. I think it's fine where it is. I'm not suggesting an overall increase to experience. I'm saying take what's there and spread it around a little more evenly so people have more than one choice when it comes to leveling their sub-classes.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jynx
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09-23-2013, 09:19 AMIspenBasically the people who have complaints some of them genuine have started to call the people who disagree with them white knights and before you ask yes it is as stupid as it sounds.Quote:
Originally Posted by Papamax
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09-23-2013, 09:44 AMDorfentymeWhite Knights are people who refuse to accept or acknowledge that their favorite X(game, book, movie, sports team, etc) can have anything wrong. They're basically the ultimate fanboys and they will always be the apologists who think the company can do no wrong.Quote:
Originally Posted by Papamax
They also do not understand that it's possible to love something but admit it has faults. Hell, that's the point of any real relationship. -
09-23-2013, 10:16 AMDanteMog
Leave everything alone but add more quests and or reflag the old ones for other classes, or a good chunk of the player base will move on, not a threat just a "i can see this will happen"
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09-23-2013, 11:21 AMLaiyenuNot sure about you but my "character" takes about 20 minutes to fully learn a job if the info is present (which in this day and age on forums YT and google, it is.)Quote:
Originally Posted by Jynx
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09-23-2013, 01:33 PMJynxPlaying your job and reading about it are two different things. Anyone you think is "Great" at their job didn't just read up on it and slap on his level 50 character, more often than not they have experience in those rolls they know the mechanics not just in theory but in practice.Quote:
Originally Posted by Laiyenu
Practice makes perfect, reading and imitation only gets you so far. -
09-23-2013, 01:57 PMLaiyenuActually no all these classes (maybe not monk) all of them can pretty much be slapped on a 50 and be fine with skills and general gameplay knowledge.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jynx
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09-23-2013, 02:41 PMdark0past
I have an idea
-Guildhests should reward every class for the first time.!! It's a good idea. -
09-23-2013, 03:15 PMZohnoReecho
I think/hope SE has something planned because at the moment, unless they change it, lv 50 > 60 requires pretty much the same amount of exp needed for 1 > 50
http://xivdb.com/?exp -
09-23-2013, 04:04 PMcbwriter
May I suggest that additional quest lines be added and only unlocked when you start your 2nd (3rd, 4th, etc.) job. This would give added backstory/lore/etc. and needed quest exp to level the added job(s) without getting into a boring grind. Admittedly it DOES mean additional work for writers and devs, but if Yoshi's goal of having FFXIV last for 10 years, they WILL be needed to keep people busy and exploring.
End-game content cannot do it all. There needs to be a way to keep those that want to keep adding jobs busy without getting them bored. Yoshi and the devs would be smart not to ignore the lower levels while adding end-game content.
FFXIV seems to be based on multiple swings through the lower levels and keeping them fresh with new and surprising new content and quests would do much in making FFXIV different from other MMOs that just concentrate on adding end-game content -
09-23-2013, 04:51 PMmekiaQuote:
Originally Posted by Sentinel
But but.... that requires effort!? NO WAY! :p