Bard - When should i use songs?

Hey you guys!
I'm in my early 40s now, as i get closer and closer to the cap, im trying to figure out how to properly sing my songs.

The other day i went to a dungeon with a friend and two pugs, i played Mage's Ballad the whole time. I suppose this is wrong ?

I just want to someone make it clear for me, when exactly i should start playing my songs and when should i stop?

Also, the damage nerf while playing songs - it applys on me once i beging to play them, correct?

Sorry for the noob questions, i just want to understand how it works so i wont fuckup on my end-game.

Thank you.

you have a song for regen TP, a song for regen PM but cost 20% dps less.... you should use your song when it's the most important moment... when a mage are out of pm or just you if you have not enought TP for attack... there's many time you should use your song just be attentive to the situation

Periodically check your healer's MP. If you see it below 30% then sing Mage's Ballad until their MP is close to full. Do not play Ballad the entire time. Bard is a dps. Your primarily job is to deal damage. If you're singing when it's unnecessary and weakening the group dps then you're hurting the group more than helping.

During burn phases, it's a good idea to play Foe's Requiem if you have a Black Mage in the party. You can also open with it, to give your MP time to recover in case you need Ballad later.

Keep an eye of the chat log in case someone asks for Paeon. We have no way to check someone's TP. It's best not to lower your dps unless you need to. So I don't recommend playing it when no one asks for it. If everybody has Invigorate then TP is rarely an issue.

I would say, avoid singing when you have Raging Strikes, Barrage, Hawk's Eye, or Blood for Blood up.

If your healer falls below that 30% MP threshold OR a party member dies and you see them get Raised, throw the Mage's Ballad up for a while. As you start to run with a white mage, you may get a feel for how he/she manages MP vs. the content. And you may not need to Mage's Ballad them.

Ideally, try to get your Windbite and Venomous Sting up before you sing the song so the DoT does not get hit with the 20% damage debuff.

Use TP song on a tank that may have accidentally used Sprint during combat.

When to sing(from a Summoner's perspective):
Ballad-
-Between pulls.
-Healer is below 25% mana
-Summoner is below ~15% mana.
-Before bosses
-After a SMN or WHM/SCH is rezzed, and ESPECIALLY battle rezzed.

Paeon-
-Between pulls if you're AoEing
-After someone is battle rezzed
-When they ask for it

Requiem-
-If you don't need to sing, and nobody is asking for it, use this. It doesn't drop your own damage, and besides PLD/WAR/MNK everyone uses some kind of elemental damage.

Very helpful stuff, thank you :)

Foe Requiem seems to give you enmity if you run into mob range with it, so precasting it before the tank pulls might cause chained mobs to beeline to you instead of the tank. Just something I found out the hard way with DF tanks :'D

It would be easier if we could see tank's TP to know when they were low, but I tend to pop a song when a boss is about 60% and drop any song before 20% boss health. foe's requiem to end fights and before the LB

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Kevee

When to sing(from a Summoner's perspective):
Ballad-
-Between pulls.
-Healer is below 25% mana
-Summoner is below ~15% mana.
-Before bosses
-After a SMN or WHM/SCH is rezzed, and ESPECIALLY battle rezzed.

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My only beef with this post is this:

1. Why would you run around playing your Mage Ballad between pulls? Regen out of combat is active....so useless.
2. Same applies before a boss fight.

Also, once you get your damage increase by 20% or whatever from traits, you can play your ballad all you want and not lose DPS. You really ought to read some of the things you get D:. Why do you think end game, your top raid groups are normally running 3 Bards, 1 Monk? 3 Bards to play all three songs continuously, or well until he/she runs out of MP.

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Originally Posted by NRhodes

My only beef with this post is this:

1. Why would you run around playing your Mage Ballad between pulls? Regen out of combat is active....so useless.
2. Same applies before a boss fight.

Also, once you get your damage increase by 20% or whatever from traits, you can play your ballad all you want and not lose DPS. You really ought to read some of the things you get D:. Why do you think end game, your top raid groups are normally running 3 Bards, 1 Monk? 3 Bards to play all three songs continuously, or well until he/she runs out of MP.

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Because I, as a SMN, use a lot of MP if I want to maximize my DPS on trash. After the 3 DoTs and shadow flare, it's more DPS to use thunder on each individual target and that's a lot of MP.

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Originally Posted by NRhodes

My only beef with this post is this:

1. Why would you run around playing your Mage Ballad between pulls? Regen out of combat is active....so useless.
2. Same applies before a boss fight.

Also, once you get your damage increase by 20% or whatever from traits, you can play your ballad all you want and not lose DPS. You really ought to read some of the things you get D:. Why do you think end game, your top raid groups are normally running 3 Bards, 1 Monk? 3 Bards to play all three songs continuously, or well until he/she runs out of MP.

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120% is still more than 100%. You should not be playing songs unless you need to. A dps job is to maximize their damage output and Bard is a dps.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by NRhodes

Also, once you get your damage increase by 20% or whatever from traits, you can play your ballad all you want and not lose DPS. You really ought to read some of the things you get D:. Why do you think end game, your top raid groups are normally running 3 Bards, 1 Monk? 3 Bards to play all three songs continuously, or well until he/she runs out of MP.

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Umm... what?

At 50, my paladin doesn't run out of mana very often but it can in places like wanderer's palace and I certainly appreciate a bard who will ballad for me.

To answer the question: Be Situationally aware.

I never use my songs until I see/am told that the party is running out of MP or TP. Otherwise it's just a waste. As for Foe's Requiem.. it pulls aggro like crazy, so I try to avoid using it in dungeons because the last thing you want to do as a DPS is pull enmity from the tank. I find it's really useful when you are in a fate party though, but otherwise just use your discretion.

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Originally Posted by Kevee

Because I, as a SMN, use a lot of MP if I want to maximize my DPS on trash. After the 3 DoTs and shadow flare, it's more DPS to use thunder on each individual target and that's a lot of MP.

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the way casters burn through mp, i'd have to have ballad up almost 100% of the time, so i don't bother watching caster mp, just healer. js

Does anyone know if there is a way to macro Battle Voice to Mage's Ballad?

I'm only lvl 39, but I've only had to play my mp ballad once or twice. In the current dungeon, Cutter's Cry, I just role w/ my archer.... It's more powerful, and has more defensive options as well.

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Originally Posted by Ohkami

Does anyone know if there is a way to macro Battle Voice to Mage's Ballad?

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Off the top of my head, something like this?

Code:

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/micon "Battle Voice"
/ac "Battle Voice" <me>
/ac "Mage's Ballad" <me>

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You'd have to tap the macro twice to activate both skills. I've got all songs on my main hotbar, plus a macro for each one with an announcement on a separate bar:

Code:

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/micon "Mage's Ballad"
/ac "Mage's Ballad" <me>
/p ♪ Here's [Mage's Ballad] for that sweet sweet MP ♪

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Think I'll add Battle Voice to the extra macros now, didn't think of that before since I made them before I hit 50 :)

(using the regular keybinds to toggle off the songs when needed so there's not too much chat spam)

Thank you. I was being an idiot and not using <me> >.>;;;

Army's Paeon becomes the most situational song once people start to cross-skill Invigorate. The only time it's really needed is when you have a melee-majority party and additional targets need to be aoe'd down fast. Even though your damage may be decreased, your other DPS classes in the party will be able to spam their skills for a longer period.

I agree with a lot of people in this thread on how Mage's Ballad should be used. Use it when it's direly needed: when healer's MP is below ~30%, or if a mage or healer class has been battle-resurrected.

With Foe's Requiem, you will want this song up frequently especially if you have casters in the party. But most DPS classes can still benefit from this song. You don't receive a damage penalty, so use this whenever you can. When you need big numbers and fast (for example: nails in Ifrit HM, sisters in Garuda HM), it's good to use this song paired with Battle Voice for double the benefit. One thing to note that you should not use it if there are un-aggro'd enemies close by. Playing this song can pull them to you and make things harder for your party. Have this on only if you're in combat and in a wide space. Turn it off when the combat ends.

A general rule of thumb: unless the healers have no mana, don't use MB (or AP) if you need to damage things fast, use FR to maximise damage. Using your battle voice depends on the situation. Also, watch your MP: a good rule is to stop singing once you've reached 50% so that you still have enough to change songs if the situation calls for it.

Also everyone tends to ignore Swiftsong, but it is extremely valuable. Using it cuts time between enemies, cuts dungeon length and helps to skip enemies more easily. This should always be up when you're not in combat, and there is no reason not to use it.

Oh, awesome! Thank you for this thread! I'm a newly 50 bard and was really curious on suggestions as far as songs go. I normally only used foe requiem during boss battles or FATE's when there was a BLM or SMN around.

And excellent suggestions on Mage's Ballad!

Actually there's been a fair bit of misinformation here in regards to Foe Requiem, it doesn't buff your dps unless there is a summoner or Blm in the group. It's true that Brd has ele dps in the forms of Wind Bite, and Burning Arrow, but try this sometime, go attack a mob, record your burning arrow ticks, also record your Wind Bite hits/ticks...now repeat with Foe Requiem numbers stay the same, currently FR only actually effects elemental spells such as fire, thunder, blizzard.

the best times to use songs:
FR - as much as possible providing you have a blm or smn, it costs you 2.5s to put it up and will be a significant dps gain for them in the long run.

TP - almost never really, outside AoE situations very few classes actually run themselves dry on TP, and invigorate covers a lot of regen gaps as well, monks and warrior tanks are the only ones who might but seeing as it doesn't regen a whole lot without battle voice odds are good your monk/warr should just learn to manage their tp a bit better, because by running Army's Paeon you are lowering your damage AND your caster's damage (think no foe requiem).

MB - When whms oom....haven't ever had to run this for a sch thusfar, but keep in mind Whms do have shroud of saints as well so it's rare for them to oom with proper mana management.

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Before titan HM the situations where you run Mage's Ballad or Army's Paeon are few to none, if you wish to run them between packs to boost regen this can help speed things along from time to time when chainpulling. In titan and coil it's all based on player skill, gear, etc so you'll have to get a feel for things on your own.

PS: Don't run mage's ballad just because people cry for it, look at their mana and at the situation, you lowering your damage so the whm can be lazy and spam cure III to heal 200 points of damage slows the group down, only run ballads that lower your dps when players are doing their job, not as a crutch to allow them to play poorly. (yes I know rezzing is kinda people playing poorly, but we'll call that an exception).

I've read that about Foe Requiem as well. Some folks in the link below did some thorough testing even.

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Foe Requiem - Says it reduces enemy's elemental resistance by 10%. What it really does is increase caster damage done by ~15%. No bard abilities are affected whatsoever by foe req, even the ones that deal elemental damage. Also, we tested, foe requiem affects all of Garuda Egi's damage, but does not affect Ifrit damage.

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http://ns.reddit.com/r/ffxiv/comment...d_foe_requiem/

Regarding Mage's Ballad, I'm curious, to what extent should we watch non-White Mage mana pools? Scholar, Summoner, and maybe even Paladin while we're at it. From what I've read elsewhere Black Mages have their own methods of dealing with mana. I know Scholars and Summoners have Aetherflow, but I thought I'd put the question out there nevertheless. So far I've read some conflicting recommendations from this thread and a somewhat similar one over at the GameFAQs forums.

nm. that was wrong

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Originally Posted by Tenkiei

Actually there's been a fair bit of misinformation here in regards to Foe Requiem, it doesn't buff your dps unless there is a summoner or Blm in the group. It's true that Brd has ele dps in the forms of Wind Bite, and Burning Arrow, but try this sometime, go attack a mob, record your burning arrow ticks, also record your Wind Bite hits/ticks...now repeat with Foe Requiem numbers stay the same, currently FR only actually effects elemental spells such as fire, thunder, blizzard.

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I believe you, but I need to know how you see your tic damage. Its not showing for me afaict.

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Originally Posted by svann

I think Foe Requiem is not useful in light parties. It mostly helps BLM and its only +10% to them and -20% to you. The numbers dont add.

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Requiem doesn't lower your damage.

TL;DR - I almost never play a song without Battle Voice along with it. The numbers just don't make sense no matter how you twist the math.

The biggest thing with songs is that you need to make a lot of judgement calls.

4 man -

I don't play any song but FR. If I need to play Mana, something is very wrong. I will do it on request by the healer if the request seems legitimate.

8 man -

Mages Ballad -
I pop this + Battle voice if I see a healer get battle rezzed or low. Once battle voice is gone, I drop mages ballad. I use 1500 mana as my "gauge" for playing mana.

Armys Paeon -
I tend to throw this up rarely, but always with Battle Voice. I use it on request from the tank, or transition phases of fights where I know I won't be attacking due to whatever reason.

I tend to play FR in bursts, again, with Battle Voice. I drop it when BV is gone, I may need that mana for Ballad later.

Obviously things like Titan's heart phase, etc, you should throw FR+BV up.

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Originally Posted by svann

I believe you, but I need to know how you see your tic damage. Its not showing for me afaict.

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It doesn't show in the log, no. In order to get an accurate idea like Tenkiei is suggesting, apply one dot to a mob and then stop attacking. The damage that you see popping up on the mob as floating text is your dot tick.

Is there generally much fear of a Scholar running out of mana? I've been keeping an eye on them, but the ones I've been running with almost never seem to approach the 25-30% mark or stay there for long. Even on bosses.

While you're playing the song, you receive a HUGE damage debuff. So playing the song all the time will make you much less efficient. Only play the song when your casters/healers are below, say, 15%. Then cancel the song when they have sufficient MP to finish the fight. This becomes much easier at 50 when you get your song buff.

TL;DR - Only when your mages really need you to, then turn it off.

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Originally Posted by Darwyn_Ulondarr

Is there generally much fear of a Scholar running out of mana? I've been keeping an eye on them, but the ones I've been running with almost never seem to approach the 25-30% mark or stay there for long. Even on bosses.

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Scholars have a mana regen ability.

Understood. Thank you.

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Originally Posted by Darwyn_Ulondarr

I've
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sometimes SCH out of mana faster then WHM (especially at the endgame content) even they have Aetherflow, its recast is so long. WHM also have shroud of saints that help them to recover their mana so fast. IMO, Playing MB is best used if WHM MP<20%, and SCH MP<25%.
About the FR, I agree so much, when killing dreadnaught at turn 4 BC, it is very useful if your partner is a smn and BLM, when garuda egi is going to do "mini-reckoning" (I dont know what the skill named), or maybe when there's any DPS Race boss bard's should play FR with a BLM/SMN partner:D

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Originally Posted by Rasix

TL;DR - I almost
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IMO AP not worthed >,< as my experience as a bard, other DoW never run out of TP, so it's not worthed to lowering your damage for TP regen (unless they are crying for it). if you run out of TP use invigorate (cross class from lancer with 2 mins recast) Heals up 400 TP. it will help so much better than lowering your damage for AP + BV.