Yoshi P talks about Warriors- from Producer Letter Live @ TGS

Here is what Yoshi had to say about Warriors, as translated by Reinhart:

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y: some were asking isn't warrior weaker/harder than paladin?
y: in development environment devs are really strong with marauder
y: so I think you'l find them out soon
y: they are really strong
y: for those that really want to show off, i recommend warrior

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Does this mean that Yoshi is telling us buffs are on the way, or Warrior is shining with the content that's coming? I'm not sure.

You can find the translation of the rest of the letter at:
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1...ntW_O2vWI/edit

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Originally Posted by Kexual

Here is what Yoshi had to say about Warriors, as translated by Reinhart:



Does this mean that Yoshi is telling us buffs are on the way, or Warrior is shining with the content that's coming? I'm not sure.

You can find the translation of the rest of the letter at:
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1...ntW_O2vWI/edit

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My take-away from this is, clearly the Devs are better at using Warriors, most likely because they aren't trying to use them like a PLD, and as far as they are concerned, they are a good class.

I tend to agree, I think all the whining about not being able to Main Tank coils is pointless because none of them have the level appropriate gear that they SHOULD have before even stepping foot into it. Once Crystal Tower is added and they have the appropriate gear, you'll see them MTing coils. They also have said that it is more difficult to be a good WAR, so "showing off" is if you're a WAR AND good, as an unskilled player will most likely not be a very good WAR.

I want to ask Yoshi what WAR is supposed to do for Titan HM then. Go as DPS just for that fight, since it's literally 10 million times easier to tank Titan HM as a PLD?

I tried to tank Titan HM as WAR today. I really did. I went in with Garuda's Scream, the AF+1 chest, and everything else DL except helmet. Mountain Buster was dropping 4.5k damage on me straight up and I have about 6.9k HP. How a healer is supposed to heal me through that with Cure II that does 1.3k healing on me is a mystery which no one has been able to solve.

I mean, I'll take a pointless carry through Titan HM with me as a mediocre DPS just to pass the instance and get my Relic weapon but if this is what Yoshi thinks WAR is for, never MT only carry then fine I'll just roll a SMN or something and never tank again in this game. I don't want to be PLD to tank.

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Originally Posted by Sephirah

My take-away from this is, clearly the Devs are better at using Warriors, most likely because they aren't trying to use them like a PLD, and as far as they are concerned, they are a good class.

I tend to agree, I think all the whining about not being able to Main Tank coils is pointless because none of them have the level appropriate gear that they SHOULD have before even stepping foot into it. Once Crystal Tower is added and they have the appropriate gear, you'll see them MTing coils. They also have said that it is more difficult to be a good WAR, so "showing off" is if you're a WAR AND good, as an unskilled player will most likely not be a very good WAR.

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Sure, with Crystal Tower Gear, Warrior will shine in Bahamuts Coil... but hey, wait... atm PLD are Tanking Bahamuts Coil with Current gear, doenst taht mean, that with Crystal Tower Gear PLD will be even more shiny?.....
Say waht you want, PLD>WAR.

SE said once, that PLD is a Tank who reduce incoming dmg, and WAR is a tank who Counter incoming dmg with his selfheal. but his selfheal is such a bad joke....
i Tested it right now, i have full Darklight gear and Ifrit Axe, and i heal my self with Bloodbath about 40-70. Inner beast about 800 and Storm's path about 100. (Storms Path is the 3er Combo, so, ist just all 7,5sec 100 Selfheal)

So, answer me, do you really think the healer feels that, if the tank heals himself with 40-100 per hit, wehn the Boss hit him with 1200? or like Titan HM with 4500?

ps. about Topic, i think we will get a Buff soon, thats how i read it. and its about time.

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Originally Posted by Illya

I want to ask Yoshi what WAR is supposed to do for Titan HM then. Go as DPS just for that fight, since it's literally 10 million times easier to tank Titan HM as a PLD?

I tried to tank Titan HM as WAR today. I really did. I went in with Garuda's Scream, the AF+1 chest, and everything else DL except helmet. Mountain Buster was dropping 4.5k damage on me straight up and I have about 6.9k HP. How a healer is supposed to heal me through that with Cure II that does 1.3k healing on me is a mystery which no one has been able to solve.

I mean, I'll take a pointless carry through Titan HM with me as a mediocre DPS just to pass the instance and get my Relic weapon but if this is what Yoshi thinks WAR is for, never MT only carry then fine I'll just roll a SMN or something and never tank again in this game. I don't want to be PLD to tank.

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No, no. You're doing it wrong. You're supposed to be oblivious, get carried by your healers, then post about how good the WAR is in "skilled" hands, implying that you're god's gift to this game and we're all not worthy.

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Originally Posted by Ruminate

No, no. You're doing it wrong. You're supposed to be oblivious, get carried by your healers, then post about how good the WAR is in "skilled" hands, implying that you're god's gift to this game and we're all not worthy.

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The worst part about this translation is now every Paladin is going to be like "The devs say they're strong if you're good, just L2P."

The way I read it though, what he means by the development environment he means in the next patch, i.e. development environment.

I am sure something is lost in translation there. A it does not make complete sense, what they said.

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Originally Posted by Hachiko

The way I read it though, what he means by the development environment he means in the next patch, i.e. development environment.

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Which is Crystal Tower isn't it? I think this means that during their testing with the Crystal Tower, some of their Devs/QA testers have got really good at being a WAR in there. And from there you'll be able to take on coils way easier than it is right now.

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Originally Posted by Sephirah

Which is Crystal Tower isn't it? I think this means that during their testing with the Crystal Tower, some of their Devs/QA testers have got really good at being a WAR in there. And from there you'll be able to take on coils way easier than it is right now.

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So.. what do we do now?

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Originally Posted by Sephirah

Which is Crystal Tower isn't it? I think this means that during their testing with the Crystal Tower, some of their Devs/QA testers have got really good at being a WAR in there. And from there you'll be able to take on coils way easier than it is right now.

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scroll up, and answer my question. ;)

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Originally Posted by antiviolence

So.. what do we do now?

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Coils were NEVER intended to be available without progressing through Crystal Tower, it just got pushed because of some persisting issues that needed to be fixed. But rather than having nothing other than primals and ak, they decided to put coils in and let players bash their heads against it in frustration while they got the rest ready. lol.

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Originally Posted by Rios-Drakoon

scroll up, and answer my question. ;)

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So WAR being fully capable of main tanking the highest tier of end-game content wont be enough for you if PLD is still able to mitigate more dmg? I don't see the logic in that. I can understand being upset that PLD is able to do content that you can't but if we both can, then what's the problem?

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Originally Posted by Sephirah

Coils were NEVER intended to be available without progressing through Crystal Tower, it just got pushed because of some persisting issues that needed to be fixed. But rather than having nothing other than primals and ak, they decided to put coils in and let players bash their heads against it in frustration while they got the rest ready. lol.



So WAR being fully capable of main tanking the highest tier of end-game content wont be enough for you if PLD is still able to mitigate more dmg? I don't see the logic in that. I can understand being upset that PLD is able to do content that you can't but if we both can, then what's the problem?

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You dont get it

Yes, Warrior will be able (i hope so) to be main tank in Bahamuts Coil with Crystal Tower Equip.
But, Paladin is able NOW to be MT in Bahamuts Coil.

And that means, with Crystal Tower Equip, Paladin will be even better as MT, and fact is, PLD is less difficult to heal, that means less MP cost for healer and that mean PLD>WAR.

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Originally Posted by Rios-Drakoon

You dont get it

Yes, Warrior will be able (i hope so) to be main tank in Bahamuts Coil with Crystal Tower Equip.
But, Paladin is able NOW to be MT in Bahamuts Coil.

And that means, with Crystal Tower Equip, Paladin will be even better as MT, and fact is, PLD is less difficult to heal, that means less MP cost for healer and that mean PLD>WAR.

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Yes, PLD will always be better at straight up taking a hit. This was how they were designed, it's what makes them a PLD. That does not mean that they are the "best" tank for all situations.

If you define being the "better" tank as being able to straight up mitigate the most damage, then you need to role a PLD, because WAR was not designed that way.

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Originally Posted by Sephirah

Yes, PLD will always be better at straight up taking a hit. This was how they were designed, it's what makes them a PLD. That does not mean that they are the "best" tank for all situations.

If you define being the "better" tank as being able to straight up mitigate the most damage, then you need to role a PLD, because WAR was not designed that way.

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you are right.

Paladin is designed for reduce incoming dmg
Warrior is designed to conter incoming dmg with his selfheal.

The truth is, the Selfheal is way to low to conter.

Dont get me wrong, i dont want that SE will add dmg reduce abilities to WAR, but they Need to push his selfheals.

I have a bad feeling about this...Dunno I'm getting the interpretation that Warriors are fine...

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Originally Posted by Rios-Drakoon

you are right.

Paladin is designed for reduce incoming dmg
Warrior is designed to conter incoming dmg with his selfheal.

The truth is, the Selfheal is way to low to conter.

Dont get me wrong, i dont want that SE will add dmg reduce abilities to WAR, but they Need to push his selfheals.

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I'd be totally fine with that. I also think what remains to be seen is how they develop content for both these tanks working together.

At the moment, the content in coils just so happens to require being able to take a harder hit. Maybe crystal tower will require higher hp pools.

ok you still dont get it.

Aslong PLD are easier to heal, solong will it always be PLD>WAR. and thats the main Problem.

I dont care if i take always 1000dmg and you only 800/600/400dmg. but at least give me the Abilities to heal me self back up.

But Bloodbath heals me for 40-80 per hit. do you think my Bloodbath, and Storms Path 100HP and Inner Beast 800hp all 13,5sec are so good like all your Defens Abilities?

the Healer feel if the PLD activate a Defense CD, but when we use Bloodbath, or Stroms Path, they dont feel a shit.

The bigger HP pool ist just nice at the Start from a fight, after a few seconds it doesnt matter.

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Originally Posted by Rios-Drakoon

ok you still dont get it.

Aslong PLD are easier to heal, solong will it always be PLD>WAR. and thats the main Problem.

I dont care if i take always 1000dmg and you only 800/600/400dmg. but at least give me the Abilities to heal me self back up.

But Bloodbath heals me for 40-80 per hit. do you think my Bloodbath, and Storms Path 100HP and Inner Beast 800hp all 13,5sec are so good like all your Defens Abilities?

the Healer feel if the PLD activate a Defense CD, but when we use Bloodbath, or Stroms Path, they dont feel a shit.

The bigger HP pool ist just nice at the Start from a fight, after a few seconds it doesnt matter.

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I think you misunderstood me, I was saying I'd be fine with increased selfhealing.

If what he's saying isn't concerning an as of yet unseen developer build, or unless there's some super secret technique or rotation that the entire playerbase has yet to discover yet that suddenly makes WAR viable, then something like that is a pretty good excuse for WAR players to either just switch classes, because things simply won't ever get better, or just wash our hands of this game entirely.

I can only hope he's talking about a test build.

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Originally Posted by Sephirah

I think you misunderstood me, I was saying I'd be fine with increased selfhealing.

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ah, ok, sorry, then i really misunderstood you. so, we are clear :D

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Originally Posted by Rios-Drakoon

ok you still dont get it.

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Perhaps the reason the self heal factor blows is because most newer players don't know how WAR was designed to work as a tank. After the jobs were introduced in 1.0 WAR was created with the intention of multiple target tanking in mind, and it was extremely strong at multi-target tanking, however it suffered greatly when it came to single target tanking due to the way it's abilities were designed (IE: More targets = better chances to heal more back and increase defense, Less Targets = Vice Versa).

Now I'm not saying there aren't adjustments due, developers rarely ever get the balance just right on the first try. I was just wanting to point this out because I don't think most grasp how WAR's design was intended to work, and I think that's alot of the reason most folks are having difficulty playing the job.

If it makes you feel better though, I have been in a few successful Titan runs with WAR both as a tank and DPS.

Game developers often have absolutely no idea how their game works in practice. News at 11.

All that this means is that Warriors will be buffed in 2 months instead of 1. It's simple stubbornness. No dev has ever been better at their own game than the collective body of their entire playerbase and the notion that Yoshi-P thinks the devs are is laughable.

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Originally Posted by SwordCoheir

Perhaps the reason the self heal factor blows is because most newer players don't know how WAR was designed to work as a tank. After the jobs were introduced in 1.0 WAR was created with the intention of multiple target tanking in mind, and it was extremely strong at multi-target tanking, however it suffered greatly when it came to single target tanking due to the way it's abilities were designed (IE: More targets = better chances to heal more back and increase defense, Less Targets = Vice Versa).

Now I'm not saying there aren't adjustments due, developers rarely ever get the balance just right on the first try. I was just wanting to point this out because I don't think most grasp how WAR's design was intended to work, and I think that's alot of the reason most folks are having difficulty playing the job.

If it makes you feel better though, I have been in a few successful Titan runs with WAR both as a tank and DPS.

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There is literally nothing that Warriors have that gives them significant healing against multiple targets. If that's how WAR's design was intended to work, they sure forgot to actually implement anything that indicates that at all. You must also be a mind-reading savant.

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Originally Posted by Sephirah

Yes, PLD will always be better at straight up taking a hit. This was how they were designed, it's what makes them a PLD. That does not mean that they are the "best" tank for all situations.

If you define being the "better" tank as being able to straight up mitigate the most damage, then you need to role a PLD, because WAR was not designed that way.

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What was WAR designed for? Please tell us.

Whatever your answer is, guess what? It will be wrong, because currently WAR doesn't do anything better than PAL. The problem isn't the design, it's the numbers being way too low on pretty much everything.

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Originally Posted by Faction

What was WAR designed for? Please tell us.

Whatever your answer is, guess what? It will be wrong...

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WAR is a tank that excels in tanking multiple targets and dealing damage. This debate has come up in several threads, and many warriors feel there is no point in them doing damage if they are there to tank. Well, sorry guys, but it isn't something that can just be ignored, more damage means higher health regen, and those both mean less defense. If a WAR could take a hit as well as a PLD, there would be no point in being a PLD. The two classes work TOGETHER, in this CO-OP game. Nobody is saying WAR can't main tank, but it will always be harder than a PLD (similar to how it's harder, but not impossible for a PLD to tank multiple targets), which again comes back to why they say if you want to show off you should be a WAR, because it takes more skill.

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Originally Posted by Faction

because currently WAR doesn't do anything better than PAL.

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You're so right, I don't know what game I've been playing. So all the paladins you know have 7k hp, can aoe attack, regen health, and add some dps to the fight, right? -_-

Edit: And I didn't realize it was you Faction, didn't your last thread about this end with everyone (warriors included) telling you to role a pld because you want mitigation through defense?

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Originally Posted by Sephirah

WAR is a tank that excels in tanking multiple targets and dealing damage.

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Nope. Paladin damage is on par with Warrior damage. You have this really cool move called Sword Oath you should look into. As far as damage dealt while tanking, it's completely negligible for both classes. Warriors doing good damage is a myth invented by people who think about the game more than they actually play it. For example, Gladiators who just hit max level who are operating entirely off of theory.

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The two classes work TOGETHER, in this CO-OP game.

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Two Paladins can work together in this CO-OP game. They also happen to work together better than WAR+PAL does.

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So all the paladins you know have 7k hp, can aoe attack, regen health, and add some dps to the fight, right? -_-

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What does this even mean? "Having 7k hp" isn't doing something better. Doing something better would be, you know, actually DOING SOMETHING BETTER. None of what you listed is actually doing something better. Paladins are functionally better main tanks, functionally better off tanks, and functionally better add tanks. The only way that Warrior could possibly be a better add tank is if Paladins had any trouble holding aoe threat, but they DON'T.

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(similar to how it's harder, but not impossible for a PLD to tank multiple targets)

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You keep saying this, except it's just a lie. Paladins hold aoe threat with absolutely zero problems. You could just sit there spamming flash only and hold aoe threat if you want. As an added bonus, you won't die because you're a paladin.

Aww did WARs just get "Working as intended" ? Guess I should keep bringing up PLD and only bring out the relic'd warrior when we need some add control.. CM runs!!! XD

This response is about what I expected. Already rerolled, at least my warrior is useful for speed running CM to get DL for my black mage. When a class starts out the way warriors have it is a very bad sign as it point to devs not knowing what they want to do with it. It will probably go into stages of being overbuffed to being overnerfed, while paladins will remain stable and viable.

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Originally Posted by Faction

What does this even mean? "Having 7k hp" isn't doing something better. Doing something better would be, you know, actually DOING SOMETHING BETTER.

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Using that logic how can you say PLD is better simply because they take less damage, they aren't "doing" anything. The point is each class has their own strengths and weaknesses.

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Originally Posted by Faction

You keep saying this, except it's just a lie. Paladins hold aoe threat with absolutely zero problems. You could just sit there spamming flash only and hold aoe threat if you want. As an added bonus, you won't die because you're a paladin.

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Ok sure, you go ahead and try that. Use nothing but flash and see how long you hold threat. Just to play devil's advocate, EVEN IF THIS WAS TRUE... Warriors can use Flash too, so that isn't something PLD has over WAR.

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Originally Posted by Sephirah

You're so right, I don't know what game I've been playing. So all the paladins you know have 7k hp, can aoe attack, regen health, and add some dps to the fight, right? -_-

Edit: And I didn't realize it was you Faction, didn't your last thread about this end with everyone (warriors included) telling you to role a pld because you want mitigation through defense?

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judging from your gear, you dont know anything beyond ifrit

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Originally Posted by Sephirah

Using that logic how can you say PLD is better simply because they take less damage, they aren't "doing" anything. The point is each class has their own strengths and weaknesses.





Ok sure, you go ahead and try that. Use nothing but flash and see how long you hold threat. Just to play devil's advocate, EVEN IF THIS WAS TRUE... Warriors can use Flash too, so that isn't something PLD has over WAR.

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in CM i hold threat without any problem at all with flash and circle of scorn

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Originally Posted by Sephirah

Using that logic how can you say PLD is better simply because they take less damage, they aren't "doing" anything.

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Actually they're tanking the boss and doing it significantly better than Warriors. They're off tanking and doing it significantly better than Warriors. There's absolutely nothing Warriors do better. When something like this happens, it's not called having "strengths and weaknesses." It's called "imbalance."

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The point is each class has their own strengths and weaknesses.

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Said the guy who hasn't actually played the game to find out. I'm sure in an ideal world where you have absolute faith in the game being perfectly balanced, this is true. For example, in your head.

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Ok sure, you go ahead and try that. Use nothing but flash and see how long you hold threat. Just to play devil's advocate, EVEN IF THIS WAS TRUE... Warriors can use Flash too, so that isn't something PLD has over WAR.

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No, they can't, because warriors only have the mana to use flash 3 times.

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Use nothing but flash and see how long you hold threat

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Until the mobs die. Not that you'd know considering you haven't PLAYED THE GAME.

Yup, I haven't played the game at all, lol umad?

Edit: Man, those AK greens you have much be so hard to get huh?

Apparently good enough to take me through content you haven't done even though my class is basically an anthromorphic turd. While doing this content I also happen to have made observations. You know, like, I'm not talking purely based on what I think things might be like in an idealized version of the game I formed in my head?

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Originally Posted by Faction

Apparently good enough to take me through content you haven't done even though my class is basically an anthromorphic turd. While doing this content I also happen to have made observations. You know, like, I'm not talking purely based on what I think things might be like in an idealized version of the game I formed in my head?

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And what content would that be? The only fight I can see you've completed I haven't from your gear is Titan Hard Mode. Which I am on, and have main tanked to 20% so far, but unfortunately the group fails to mechanics at some point or another and eventually gives up, but that's DF for you.

Surely, by pugging Ifrit and Garuda, you are in a position to make statements like "WAR and PAL are balanced, it's just STRENGTHS AND WEAKNESSES!" I'm sure you've seen a lot of WAR tanking of hard-hitting bosses and adds to make that judgement. Oh wait. You're talking entirely out of your ass :/

All PLD will say "Warrior are just fine"....
Why? Because right now, PLD are Maintank almost everywhere.
Should SE Buff Warrior (and i hope they do), then Player can choose, Paladin OR Warrior.

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Originally Posted by Faction

You're talking entirely out of your ass :/

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Oh yea because chain running AK and CM really gives you an insight that is beyond me huh? You've probably beaten titan once for your relic quest and never again, and have done absolutely nothing past that other than running CM and AK over and over. Or am I missing something?

And btw I have seen plenty of WAR tanks be MT, when I get into a random group if the other tank has significantly better gear I will volunteer to OT, and if it's about the same I ask which they would prefer. Sorry you feel slighted because your class is not what you want it to be, rather than being stubborn and trying to change the class into a PLD with an axe, why not find something else to play that you DO enjoy?

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Originally Posted by Sephirah

Oh yea because chain running AK and CM really gives you an insight that is beyond me huh? You've probably beaten titan once for your relic quest and never again, and have done absolutely nothing past that other than running CM and AK over and over. Or am I missing something?

And btw I have seen plenty of WAR tanks be MT, when I get into a random group if the other tank has significantly better gear I will volunteer to OT, and if it's about the same I ask which they would prefer. Sorry you feel slighted because your class is not what you want it to be, rather than being stubborn and trying to change the class into a PLD with an axe, why not find something else to play that you DO enjoy?

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You sound afraid that your PLD will no longer be the loved tank class by everyone in endgame, you afraid of Warriors being on equal footing as a PLD in terms of tanking ability? Grow up.

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Originally Posted by Sephirah

Once Crystal Tower is added

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Hold it!

How can you be sure that Yoshi's internal team tests WAR with the added gear? You don't. The tests are highly likely to be with gear already available.

The fact that PLD can tank the coil, a level 90 content with 0 problems, makes me think not only WAR Need a buff, but PLD need a de-buff because clearly their abilities are game-breaking.

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Originally Posted by Illya

I want to ask Yoshi what WAR is supposed to do for Titan HM then. Go as DPS just for that fight, since it's literally 10 million times easier to tank Titan HM as a PLD?

I tried to tank Titan HM as WAR today. I really did. I went in with Garuda's Scream, the AF+1 chest, and everything else DL except helmet. Mountain Buster was dropping 4.5k damage on me straight up and I have about 6.9k HP. How a healer is supposed to heal me through that with Cure II that does 1.3k healing on me is a mystery which no one has been able to solve.
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I wish I knew too. Been trying to get past him for 2 weeks now. Funny enough, I've seen TONS of PLD with their relic weapons in Mor. Like 1 on 3 has a relic.