What happened to the Ascians???

In 1.0 they looked really menacing and you never really knew what they were up to, in ARR they don't look anywhere near as cool. I was hoping all they way through the story that the Ascians we ran into were just brainwashed minions and the true 1.0 Ascians would arrive later on but it never happened. Is there a reason for this or did SE just get rid of the 1.0 versions for these clowns with silly masks?

If you don't know what 1.0 Ascians look like here is a pic:

http://i.imgur.com/b2kJ8.png

Who is to say that is not their real form? Remember in the story they are possessing people. I also have a theory on how the acians were created.

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Originally Posted by shinros

Who is to say that is not their real form? Remember in the story they are possessing people. I also have a theory on how the acians were created.

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Which is why I wish they would show us a true Ascian if the 1.0 version is their true form. Even if they just showed a quick glimpse like you see in 1.0 just so you realise that they are not just these people in black that wear funny masks but actually this really menacing, floaty, skeleton thingy.

DID you finish the main quest? Just gotta ask that before I drop spoilers.

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Originally Posted by Skies

DID you finish the main quest? Just gotta ask that before I drop spoilers.

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Yes I finished the main quest today which is why I am here as I was hoping for a big reveal at the end that never came, instead we get a cutscene after credits which still shows them in human forms.

Yep.
Which means we still don't know what they look like.
And hey, i'd be surprised if they'd shown Lahabrea's true form there, because I certainly got a guess who's the new Lahabrea

Gaius? But it would have been the perfect time to show a true form after he was released from Thancred, just to get that wow moment when you realise the Ascians are much more than what they have shown so far.

I hope to god they don't use Gaius as he deserves better than that.

Considering they still seem to be a major threat, I imagine we will see a 'true form' (if they even have one) later on, when we fight them for real. Also, Im pretty sure they also possessed people in 1.0? I thought there was an elezen that got possessed, so they didnt just change it. Maybe that skeleton thing was a possessed being too.

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Originally Posted by Dijana

Considering they still seem to be a major threat, I imagine we will see a 'true form' (if they even have one) later on, when we fight them for real. Also, Im pretty sure they also possessed people in 1.0? I thought there was an elezen that got possessed, so they didnt just change it. Maybe that skeleton thing was a possessed being too.

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I'm curious if Travanchet and the Reaper were the same Ascian - and doubly curious if this was Lahabrea's early work.

I'm going to necro bump this bad boy and make some speculation.

Spoilers (This is after Main Scenario 2.0 and After Good King Moggle Mog 2.1 - you have been warned!)

Main Scenario Spoilers -

Read at your own risk!

A new being appears in the Waking Sands, an ascian named Elidibus. He is robed in white and bears the title of Emissary. He differentiates himself from his black robed brethren by citing that he is not a warrior.

In the midst of his discussion with a member of the Waking Sands, Tataru rolls into the room and stands right next him. She goes on not even noticing hes there. Others are amazed that she cannot see him.

Elidibus notes this, and of the person who can see him he says, ""The gift (The Echo) grants you clarity; it grants you focus. With it, you may in time come to see us as we are, rather than this crude approximation." It appears that there is something of a true form for ascians and the humanoid form commonly seen in 2.0 is but a hint of their true nature.
It is implied by that statement that one may be able to will themselves by focus to see the real nature of a ascian, but that the Echo super-sizes that, and further dialogue indicates that one could potentially further that Echo-born vision with greater mastery.

Now to the corse-like apparition from 1.0 (visible in the Toll of the Warden mission [I kept a video of each of the main/city-state missions]). It terrified the beastmen as well as the civilized races of men who saw it. The people that saw it that day were tempered (Amulj'aa and Ixal) and non-tempered beastman (Sylph) as well as civilized races with (the hero's party) and presumably without the Echo (the crystal consortium merchant). The implication was that they all saw it in that horrid psudo-skeletal form. In point of fact, it looked right through the Sylvan glamour and saw your party.

My guess, since it later told Ifrit to not kill the Warrior of Light (1.0 mission) was that the ascian meant to be seen and meant to appear in this form. It wanted you to know it was acting, and to see this nature of it.

They can also take human form or possess humans as seen in Limsa 1.0 and Main Scenario 2.0

So far that's all I know about their forms, here are my present extrapolations based on what I know:

a.) Either it was an ascian revealing a form cruder than even those seen in 2.0 - we've better developed the Echo to see it as it really is. The better the global essence of Echo becomes, the better able they are to be seen less as horrors, or even indistinct humanoids but in their "true natures." Vision is based on our power to percieve

b.) They have been allowed to enter the world in a more significant way since the approach of Dalamud or the wake of the Calamity (I'm fuzzy on this one since Lahabrea and one of his underlings were hanging out at Cartenau pre-calamity in their whole-robed, skin-covered humanoid forms.) However, I have a theory based on why Bahamut's proximity would strengthen the ascians - but another time, another place. Vision is based on their ability to appear

c.) This was an underling or different/lesser kind of ascian (we've already had revealed that they have different roles/classes/castes named "warrior-types," emissaries, underlings). Different kind of the same creature

d.) This is something they are completely changing up and will retcon (I totally doubt this - they will explain why we see different forms)

I'm wobbling around on this one, but I'm leaning to c.

There is definetely a hierachy/status tree amongst the Ascians - Lahabrea is referred to by Alphinaud as being 'an overlord', although he didn't elaborate on exactly what that meant other than the markings on Lahabrea's robe 'attesting to that'. As well, the player encounters several Ascians who are not referred to by their names, but simply by titles: 'Ascian of the Twelfth Sword', 'Ascian of the Twelfth Staff', 'Ascian of the Twelfth Chalice' etc. Which also seemed interesting - 'sword', 'staff' and 'chalice' seemed to suggest that their ranking is based on playing cards. Of course this could simply be flavour text, but it does give a possible clue as to their structure and 'society', if any.

There were 11 Scions of Light in FFXII (I have no illusions these are the same beings only an archetype of essence) - and if I counted my feet correctly in the famed "Zodiark reveal scene," at the end of A Realm Reborn 2.0 Main scenario - there were 11 named "overlords" standing there in identical robes.

Thank you Enkidoh, for the reminder on the "overlord" title. I kept seeing it being used but didn't remember anyone saying so. The reminder about Alphinaud was helpful.

Me thinks that I need to get through Summoner and possibly Scholar (presently level 39 I believe). I'm guessing I'm missing some serious insight on ascians from those quests.

Spoilers for the SMN quest line, but

you only see an Ascian in the SMN quest line at the very end - an unnamed 'Ascian of the Twelfth Chalice'. You don't see him again. None of the SCH quests involve the Ascians though (unless the 'sickness from the sea' which creates tonberries was created by them, which I doubt).

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Originally Posted by Enkidoh

Which also seemed interesting - 'sword', 'staff' and 'chalice' seemed to suggest that their ranking is based on playing cards.

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I'm still at a loss for whether their names are connected to the Italian tarot or the Masonic / Golden Dawn contributions to modern mythology of magick. In tarot, the suits only go up to ten, after all. They also tend to have a lot of different names ("cups," "wands," "rods," etc.) whereas "Sword," "Chalice," and "Staff" are specifically the names used for the ritual tools attributed to contemporary rituals - and are the same tools seen on the Major Arcana card The Magician.

Looking at the page for FFXII's espers, I'm wondering if the description isn't a clue for FFXIV:

“Beings of strange form and appearance made by the gods in ancient times. Favored with great strength and intellect, the Espers knew power far beyond that of men, but their power made them proud, and at length they sought to challenge the gods. Seeing this, the gods were angered and struck down their blessed children, and binding their souls and flesh with the Glyph of the Beast, they stole their freedom for all eternity. Now they are bound to live only when summoned by their Glyph, to serve whosoever called them forth.”

A rival theory to the one I've been playing with for a while might be that the primals were indeed created by something we might call gods once upon a time but sealed in the lifestream, only able leave it when summoned by those who were indoctrinated into worshipping their power. We do see a glyph when Ifrit is summoned. Still, that's just taking a paragraph from another game and twisting it to fit what we already know about Eorzea - that's not exactly sound logic considering we don't have many other clues, so we'll shelve that for now. Anyway, back to the Twelfth _______ thing.

#) Scion of Darkness & Scion of Light of Element (Representing)

01) Belias, the Gigas & Loghrif, the Transcendent of Fire (Aries, the Ram)
02) Chaos, Walker of the Wheel & Mitron, the Chastiser of Wind (Taurus, the Bull)
03) Zalera, the Death Seraph & Emet-Selch, Angel of Truth of Death (Gemini, the Twins)
04) Zeromus, the Condemner & Pashtarot, Knight-Star of Gravity (Cancer, the Crab)
05) Hashmal, Bringer of Order & Fandaniel, the Protector of Earth (Leo, the Lion)
AA) Ultima, the High Seraph of Holy (Virgo, the Virgin)
06) Exodus, the Judge-Sal & Halmarut, the Arbiter of Aether (Libra, the Scales)
07) Cúchulainn, the Impure & Nabriales, the Majestic of Poison (Scorpio, the Scorpion)
08) Shemhazai, the Whisperer & Igeyorhm, the Martyr of Soul (Sagittarius, the Archer)
09) Adrammelech, the Wroth & Deudalaphon, the Benevolent of Thunder (Capricorn, the Goat)
10) Famfrit, the Darkening Cloud & Emmerololth, Holy Queen of Water (Aquarius, the Water Bearer)
11) Mateus, the Corrupt & Lahabrea, Abyssal Celebrant of Ice (Pisces, the Fish)
BB) Zodiark, Keeper of Precepts of Darkness (Ophiuchus, the Snake Bearer)

Removing Zodiark and Ultima from that list nets you eleven, and because Ultima is, in FFXIV, associated with Zodiark's power, it'd be fair to combine them into one concept and name them the twelfth. So, yeah, I guess that'd be a possible basis for the Ascian of the Twelfth ______, with the magickal tool names perhaps representing their grouping somehow?... Any of this giving anybody new ideas?

Moreover, we now know that Belias is just an elder primal similar to Ifrit, so perhaps the Scions of Darkness and Light are no longer associated with one another in the same way in this canon.

Well, I'm liable to agree with your last point more than anything - that SE (or rather, Ferne) are just using the Ascian names in a round-about way without directly connecting them to their FFXII Esper/Scion counterparts - after all, it must be remembered that the FFXII Espers at the least, were virtually all either a, names of final bosses from past FF games (Chaos, Mateus, Zeromus, Exodus), b, names of the Zodiac Braves/Lucavi demons from FF Tactics (Belias, Hashmal, Ultima, Cuchulainn, Adrammelech, Zalera and technically Zodiark), or c, a Totema from FF Tactics Advance (Famfrit). In fact, the only Esper who wasn't a name reference from a past FF game was Shemhazzi.

As for the Scions, besides Lahabrea and Eldibius, the final scene of the ending for the 2.0 storyline also revealed Pashtatot, Igeyorhm and Nabriales, and showed many more Ascians as well, so it's likely all of them take the name of the FFXII Scions of Light in one way or another. But so far your guess is as good as mine associating an Ascian with it's FFXII namesake as far as the FFXII Esper/Scion concept is concerned.