PALADIN-Circle of Scorn

Circle of Scorn needs a smaller cooldown

the coodlown needs to be reduced from 25 second to 10 seconds



I have tried many combination to keep hold of agro so my team can focus fire 1 target at a time but I still seem to lose agro,

im switching targets to keep emity on each target, im using dots and flash after every combo which seems to be the best way of using flash by experience and using circle of scorn when its up, but im still losing agro from targets we are not focus and for some reason dispite the spam of amity I use on the lost target that's chasing the healer or sommoner around the area I cant seem to pull it back off of him without having to shield bash to stun the target.
and even single targets I lose agro sometimes dispite me using the emity combo followed by flash and scorn.

but if circle of scorn had a reduced cooldown to make it usefulll enough paladins could proberly hold agro muc better.

I don't know how much CoS on a quicker CD would help, as there was no enmity bonus attached last I checked. Only the standard enmity gain for a dps/dot per damage. Essentially, CoS is a lvl 50 tank ability that is free aoe dps/dot.

The nice thing is that it is off GCD, and does not interupt your combos. Same is true for Spirits Within. This essentially allows you to do a combo of the following: Fast Blade -> CoS -> Savage Blade -> Spirits Within -> Rage of Halone. It will take some personal tinkering to get the rhythm right, but I've had good use with this. Essentially, use the animation dead-time between GCDs from combo to weave in non-gcd attacks/buffs without interupting the GCDs.

You are having issues with large groups?

For 4-6+ mobs at a time I recommend trying Run in > Flash > CoS > Flash > Flash > Flash > Flash > Flash > Flash > Flash > Riot blade combo > Flash etc.

^That may seem like a joke, but it actually works.

If you're losing Enmity even on single targets, I have to assume your weapon is too weak or your DPS just have way better gear than you.

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Originally Posted by Tanaya

^That may seem like a joke, but it actually works.

If you're losing Enmity even on single targets, I have to assume your weapon is too weak or your DPS just have way better gear than you.

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lol yea it works until you run out of mp xD

I'm all for Circle of Scorn to get a small enmity stat, doesn't have to be much, less than savage blade, and they can even keep the cool down at 25 seconds.

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Originally Posted by CyanDvai

I'm all for Circle of Scorn to get a small enmity stat, doesn't have to be much, less than savage blade, and they can even keep the cool down at 25 seconds.

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Just use flash instead, lol. We don't really need more AE enmity, if we got it, we would be Waraladins, and that would be stupid because we would be the best class ever.

PLDs are already crazy awesome, if you are sharp, its hard for you TO lose aggro. I would say the OPs problem is with gear and...I'm not trying to be rude here, but being cognizant of the aggro meters next to each group member's name. Once you establish a 1/2-3/4 meter lead on the main target and it's below 50% (on trash at least), you can just ignore it and build thread on the next target you are going to mark.

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Originally Posted by Ehayte

Just use flash instead, lol. We don't really need more AE enmity, if we got it, we would be Waraladins, and that would be stupid because we would be the best class ever.

PLDs are already crazy awesome, if you are sharp, its hard for you TO lose aggro. I would say the OPs problem is with gear and...I'm not trying to be rude here, but being cognizant of the aggro meters next to each group member's name. Once you establish a 1/2-3/4 meter lead on the main target and it's below 50% (on trash at least), you can just ignore it and build thread on the next target you are going to mark.

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even geared paladins I see lose aggro pretty easily well multiple enemys.paladins just need a better way to keep agro on multiple targets that's all

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Originally Posted by Ehayte

Just use flash instead, lol. We don't really need more AE enmity, if we got it, we would be Waraladins, and that would be stupid because we would be the best class ever.

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Already spam Flash, and I pop CoS when ever it's up on group pulls (just for that little extra dot dmg).
Like I said, a little bit of enmity would be nice on CoS since it's our lvl 50 ability and we are tanks, hell, they can even increase the cool down to 30-40 seconds if they want to balance it out.

Only time holding hate becomes an issue with paladin is when you get more than 3 mobs and you have 2 Blm's aoe'ing everything the second you pull, but then that's their fault if they get hit.

I guess I am not at end-game yet, so there could be a big piece of the puzzle that I'm missing, but I very rarely ever have aggro problems, even with 4-5 mobs. The only times I start to sweat is with an uncooperative DPS or an overhealing WHM.

If I start to struggle at level 50 I will come back here and profusely apologize : D

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Originally Posted by CrazyDuck

Circle of Scorn needs a smaller cooldown

the coodlown needs to be reduced from 25 second to 10 seconds



I have tried many combination to keep hold of agro so my team can focus fire 1 target at a time but I still seem to lose agro,

im switching targets to keep emity on each target, im using dots and flash after every combo which seems to be the best way of using flash by experience and using circle of scorn when its up, but im still losing agro from targets we are not focus and for some reason dispite the spam of amity I use on the lost target that's chasing the healer or sommoner around the area I cant seem to pull it back off of him without having to shield bash to stun the target.
and even single targets I lose agro sometimes dispite me using the emity combo followed by flash and scorn.

but if circle of scorn had a reduced cooldown to make it usefulll enough paladins could proberly hold agro muc better.

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What level of content are you doing?

Tanking the story dungeons is easy, granted I haven't gotten into AK yet, but majority of the time I have no problems in WP tanking 3-4 mobs.
Yes it's always nice when you get that Mage that will actually sleep the extras and dps that will target and dps your marks and yes it's very frustrating when you get mages and melee aoeing everything in sight and not targeting your mob and your healing is using aoe mass heals.

Tanking can be easy if the others players know how to watch their enmity, or it can be a royal pain in the ass.

I'd love circle of scorn to have a high aggro consecrate effect <3_<3

I think the biggest mistake a lot of PLDs are making is using RoH during extended AoE fights when you should be using RB chain instead and spamming as much Flash of light as possible. Yer not a tank, don't worry about doing DPS during an AoE fight

Some key things to consider and keep in mind.

1. Make peace with the fact that you will not be doing much damage, don't get greedy and try to pinch out as much dps as possible, this is an aggro game for you, pure and simple.
2. If this is a fight where adds are going to be pouring in over and over, spam flash as much as you can and also spam RB chain to make sure you are good on mana throughout the fight, don't run out of mana, if you do, you have potentially wiped the group.
3. Keep Spirits within and Mercy stroke on reserve as tools to gain aggro on singular mobs who might be getting out of hand.
4. You may pop offensive CDs and do RoH on 2 mobs, but anything more, use above rotation.

Not to seem like a jerk but, if you are having issues holding agro on mobs that are not being dps'd either the healer is over healing or you probably need to find a better way to hold agro across multiple mobs.

I personally never spam flash to the point that I am out of MP during trash mobs as I have never needed to. If the mobs aren't being put to Sleep, then you should Fast/Savage/Flash/RoH/Flash the first one DPS are on, then start Fast on the first, Savage the second, Flash, RoH third. (While comboing Two and Three with Enmity abilities, you may skip Flash between 2 and 3 if you have pretty solid agro on 1, but definately Flash before getting back on 1)

Also, your DPS also has to adjust some to different tanks as not all tanks are created equal (by this I mean not all PLDs build Enmity at the same rate)

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Originally Posted by Sentinel

4. You may pop offensive CDs and do RoH on 2 mobs, but anything more, use above rotation.

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Not sure why you set the limit at 2. You do not need to only spam Flash for 3 mobs. Four or more, sure. But 3 mobs are the standard.

Flash (Circle of Scorn) > Halone Combo (Spirits Within) > Flash > Fast Blade > Savage Blade (2nd Target) > Rage of Halone (3rd Target) > Repeat Cycle

If your DPS aren't stupid and are focusing on one target, this'll work every time.

I'd ask for Shield Swipe to be off the GCD before wanting to change Circle of Scorn in any way that doesn't involve letting me use it a LOT earlier in the game. >.>

I'm havin this problem with keeping aggro as well, there is always one member of the mob that goes to the healer and it's really frustrating cause then I end up getting grief from the healer for letting him get attacked. As far as I know I'm using the right combos but I'm just struggling to get the aggro and I don't know what it is that I'm doing wrong...

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Originally Posted by spartacus82

I'm havin this problem with keeping aggro as well, there is always one member of the mob that goes to the healer and it's really frustrating cause then I end up getting grief from the healer for letting him get attacked. As far as I know I'm using the right combos but I'm just struggling to get the aggro and I don't know what it is that I'm doing wrong...

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Provoke the target, shield lob the target, move in for flash, and make that your main target for a cycle of RoH and go back to work. If your weapon is behind, i suggest getting a better one asap and possibly cycling your defensive moves/making all mobs face your shield so that your whm's hate doesn't go too high over cures.

The other options are to figure out what's going on in your party just in case those people are soloing their mob because they 'need to hold their own' and let someone bite the dust if they're becoming a problem. Healers have no issue with this. If they need a quick raise you can pop all def if they're unable to fast cast a raise. Hopefully a lesson is learned.

I also have aoe aggro problems sometimes. I use the curtana+1, and have done upto the final stage in BC T4. No matter how I use my skills, I always loose some spiders when tanking 4-7mobs. Even spamming flash till Im OOM w/ FoF. Tabbing RoH in between just isn't enough. There is no time to combo every mob for aggro either.

Still hunting for better ways to hold big groups off of relic dps/heals...

What are you fighting? My FC mates make it a game to try to pull threat from me, even on large packs I usually win, only losing threat for a second or two here and there. Circle of Scorn is off the GDC and pretty fantastic combined with Flash. On groups with a mix of AoE damage and single target, or where all the DPS are just doing whatever the hell they want to whatever targets they want, you need to spread out some combos across various mobs, tossing in Spirits Within off the GCD as well. I am usually hitting a lot of mobs, playing whack-a-mole with threat meters, adding in a flash here and there between combos.

I think I agree that that being able to generate enmity for multiple mobs should be an ability focus for Warriors and not Paladin. Make us the single target mitigation aggro holding king and I'll be happy.