Open letter to the producer

Dear Yoshi. P

You have been our producer for 5 months now and in that time we have seen some changes and the game has progressed:

* Item stacks
* Item search
* Party size
* Party Bonus
* Side quests
* Increased Mob size
* Increased Cobyln HP
* New NMs


Each patch has made changes that have improved the game however there is a feeling among people that I have played with that the changes have been (or at least should have been) simple to achieve and shouldn't have taken the time that they did. Most of the improvements stated above could easily be achieved by changing the values in a database or simple "if" statements added to the client.

This has led to speculation as to what the FFXIV teams have been up to.

Updating the game engine to DX11 was mentioned last year, the updated battle system has been in development the entire time you have been producer. What are the status of these changes? As players we are hungry for this information we feel we are being kept in the dark as to what is happening in development. For example Companies are going to be added, we don't know how players will interact, if this is how the quests will let us link into the dungeons, or lead to LS housing (again something that was mentioned once yet we haven't heard mention of it again). The small pieces of information we have are that there are 3 Generals: 1 per city state and they wield weapons that have names similar to relic/mystic weapons from FFXI. This may be good background story but as players we need more concrete info on how this will effect players in game.

You had a good thing going where you would list the changes you wanted to make and would tick them off when they were met or give approximate time line for when they would be introduced. This hasn't been updated in months and some things have been totally forgotten about, e.g. /assist.


This letter isn't an attack but observations of myself and LS members, we have some suggestions that you might want to consider that would help win back some support from the community.

* More information. We assume that there are weekly meetings between yourself and the various FFXIV teams: if some information from these team meetings were to be posted, we would know what was being worked on and if issues arose then we would be more forgiving.

* Small (random) group feedback or more surveys, this gives you information on how players are reacting to the changes you make, the forums give instant feedback however the feedback come from those with the loudest voice not necessarily from the majority.

* Make new content difficult. This would allow you to keep existing players happy and busy giving you more time to work on the next chunk of content. Most players come from FFXI (as shown from your first survey) and the content there was famous for being difficult and this kept players playing for years.

* Open a test server, this lets players test out game mechanics that you are tweaking. As you know players can come up with novel ways to break systems that you create, this would give you an opportunity to combat this.

You have made strives to improve the game and we are grateful for your hard work. As players who have stuck with the game for the last 8 months we are hoping that the game succeeds.

Loki Jortunn

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This may be good background story but as players we need more concrete info on how this will effect players in game.

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You want != you need.

More information != 'more forgiving' community.

And less information = more people bidding farewell to ffxiv.

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Originally Posted by Loki_Jortunn

* Open a test server, this lets players test out game mechanics that you are tweaking. As you know players can come up with novel ways to break systems that you create, this would give you an opportunity to combat this.

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Best idea, imo. More surveys would also be nice, but that's where my agreement ends.

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Originally Posted by BelgianRofl

And less information = more people bidding farewell to ffxiv.

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That would be a catastrophe. Can't let any of the precious 30k people still playing to quit!

The current playerbase is a drop in the ocean. Either the playerbase expands exponentially or the game is closed down. You are meaningless. They only need few thousand players to give feedback if it comes down to it. The rest is filler.

Also May 3 != 5 months.

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Originally Posted by BelgianRofl

And less information = more people bidding farewell to ffxiv.

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Clearly it hasn't dissuaded you yet. So how was Portal 2? I beat it all in about 2 days, made me really think about quitting FFXIV.

bumpage.

Loki brings up some good points.

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Originally Posted by Loki_Jortunn

You had a good thing going where you would list the changes you wanted to make and would tick them off when they were met or give approximate time line for when they would be introduced. This hasn't been updated in months and some things have been totally forgotten about, e.g. /assist.

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On this I agree.

I would rather they painted an overall image of where they want the game to go. A list of minor details would still be appreciated though, at least so we could deduce the game's direction ourselves.

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Originally Posted by Chezen

On this I agree.

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Pretty sure Yoshida mentioned in Letter IX that he would be updating it again sometime soon.

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Originally Posted by Arcell

Pretty sure Yoshida mentioned in Letter IX that he would be updating it again sometime soon.

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You're right. :)

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In my next letter, I’ll be sure to update the list of game changes. (Sorry it’s been so long...)

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Sorry, I didn't read that part closely. I'm not really concerned about the timeline of changes for myself, but maybe it would help out some others.

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Originally Posted by Betelgeuzah

That would be a catastrophe. Can't let any of the precious 30k people still playing to quit!

The current playerbase is a drop in the ocean. Either the playerbase expands exponentially or the game is closed down.

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This is actually quite valid.

I belive he said battle changes are in 1.18 well the start of them and will be in mid june since its big update. Well at least 1.18 is a big update and may break it up to have a 1.17b.

He already said in Letter 9 that the next letter will have an updated Charts of planned, and upcoming changes as well as more information on briefly hinted systems.

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Originally Posted by Kilta_Firelotus

I belive he said battle changes are in 1.18 well the start of them and will be in mid june since its big update. Well at least 1.18 is a big update and may break it up to have a 1.17b.

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Yay Kilta has a character! \o/

More on-topic I agree what others have said, he did mention he'd update the list, noted that the beginning of the new battle system would be put in mid june aswell as dungeons and other stuff that has been in developement this entire time.

I do realise he said that the chart of planned and upcoming changes will be coming but with many things they should be constantly maintained. He said "Akihiko Matsui, our lead battle planner, will also be posting on the forums in the near future regarding some of the new battle concepts we have planned" near future could mean any time from now till middle of the June. To me near future in this kind of context near future should be in a week or two, they know the concepts and should have had it all worked out months ago so Yoshi P should be able to accuratly say when we should hear from Akihiko Matsui.

My issue is the fuzziness of comments they avoid any specifics.

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Originally Posted by Loki_Jortunn

I do realise he said that the chart of planned and upcoming changes will be coming but with many things they should be constantly maintained. He said "Akihiko Matsui, our lead battle planner, will also be posting on the forums in the near future regarding some of the new battle concepts we have planned" near future could mean any time from now till middle of the June. To me near future in this kind of context near future should be in a week or two, they know the concepts and should have had it all worked out months ago so Yoshi P should be able to accuratly say when we should hear from Akihiko Matsui.

My issue is the fuzziness of comments they avoid any specifics.

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Have you given it a week or 2 since he said this? If not then it just MAY happen tomorrow or whenever. If so then I guess time will tell lol. :P

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Originally Posted by Loki_Jortunn

Dear Yoshi. P
*SNIP!*

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I'll be blunt. I have had a feeling, a sneaking feeling, that they are concurrently working on expansionary content (Ishgard, etc), and won't announce it until it's ready to go live. This would explain the lack of significant updates in comparison to most other MMOs.

They do need to build the new zones, they do need to rebuild the old zones, they do need to write new storyline arcs, they do need to script those storylines into the game, they do need to animate those stories, they do need to create new resources like armor and items...

It's a lot of work alongside the core rebuild.

So I am not surprised that the content updates has been a bit on the thin side.

Know why? It would be retarded to release Ishgard+other zones+associated content before the battle system revamp was completed. If they released it before the battle system update, they would have more work to do for the battle system revamp itself. It would be infinitely easier to release the expanded content AFTER the battle update so they don't have to "rebuild" the monster/NPC/item data twice to account for the changes.

Plain and simple as that.

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Originally Posted by Keith_Dragoon

Yay Kilta has a character! \o/

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Awesome. :)

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Originally Posted by Loki_Jortunn

I do realise he said that the chart of planned and upcoming changes will be coming but with many things they should be constantly maintained.

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Everything got derailed with the earthquake. Just because it's not frontline news anymore doesn't mean everything has settled down over there.

They're still in a power crunch aren't they?

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Originally Posted by Loki_Jortunn

Each patch has made changes that have improved the game however there is a feeling among people that I have played with that the changes have been (or at least should have been) simple to achieve and shouldn't have taken the time that they did. Most of the improvements stated above could easily be achieved by changing the values in a database or simple "if" statements added to the client.

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You have NO idea what goes into game development, or programming in general. It sounds as though you've overheard a programmer speak once and think you have the entire development process understood.

The sheer amount of systems, and complexity of each, of games today means that changing these systems (not just updating), takes a tremendous amount of time. Factor into that how standard development processes go (design, seek approval, implement, test, iterate, test, iterate), and you should actually be applauding the rate at which they are altering and adding new systems to the game.

I understand you are anxious to see the major updates. We all are. But when you make overall changes to a base (and major) system, it takes a TON of time. If it is released and isn't well received, it could kill this game.

Just wait. Deal with what we have now. Feces occurs.

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Originally Posted by Alderton

You have NO idea what goes into game development, or programming in general.

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That's why people want more comunication with Square. So that they can understand what's going on with the game. But at the same time, it would ruin the surprises they have in store. Square has to balance the amount of information they release, but the can't make everyone happy.

I say everyone needs to back off until the June/July patches come out. Not much is going to happen until then and flooding the forums with this stuff doesn't help. Play the game as it is now if you want, if not then don't. It's free so SE is focusing on making the game better; not for us but for future paying customers.

Also, as mentioned they cannot say too much for two reasons. 1) if they don't deliver people complain and they look bad. 2) When there is hype, anticipation people stick around to see what happens. I for one want to be surprised. A new patch release should be like Christmas morning :)

Actually i am a programmer, if the game was written correctly then all the changes to monster size, hp and density can be easily achieved with minor Database updates. I realise iterative programming design however the changes they have made should be made within only a few cycles.

If you read if it was originally programmed correctly then the game should be very modular allowing new object to be added in easily and existing object to be modified without having unforseen knock on effects. I was writing in terms that the general public understand if i started to talk about relational databases, boolean expressions, call back functions or null pointers. Sure Yoshi should understand what i'm talking about but then the fact its an open later would limit the people that would read this post.

Hiemdall: you point out they shouldn't say too much because it leads to speculation actually they havn't this has lead to massive amounts of speculation. For instance the battle system, the destruction and rebuilding of grid, all the information out there on the forums or in the game is player hype because we don't have a clear idea what is planned. Now to appear to contridict myself sometime there is a good reason not to know everything, the GM running around being the profit of doom was a really nice touch it was the communtiy that got together and found this really interesting. This was because it was story based and fitted in with what was going on (weather/music etc). None story related changes should be made public once the concept has been finalised, there is no real advantage with suprising us with it.

Again stating the open letter is not an attack on Yoshi but to bring attention to some things that myself and friends have noticed and come up with suggestions to fix.

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Originally Posted by BelgianRofl

And less information = more people bidding farewell to ffxiv.

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But you'll still be here, won't you Rofl? Of course you will.

Fixing this game's programming is not so simple, seeing as the bulk of it was outsourced to...we'll just call them "incompetent" contractors. The folks at SE have to sift through all that awful code and figure out how to fix it without breaking the rest of it. It's like playing Jenga.

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Originally Posted by Eekiki

But you'll still be here, won't you Rofl? Of course you will.

Fixing this game's programming is not so simple, seeing as the bulk of it was outsourced to...we'll just call them "incompetent" contractors. The folks at SE have to sift through all that awful code and figure out how to fix it without breaking the rest of it. It's like playing Jenga.

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Speculation at its finest.

They probably thought they would never have to change those things so it probably didn't occur to them to make it easier to do so. I don't know how they programed the game, or what they put into priority, but I would like to know. That way I could understand why it's taking so long. But at the same time I know they can't legally release that sort of information.

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Originally Posted by BelgianRofl

And less information = more people bidding farewell to ffxiv.

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you mean like you did? :rolleyes:

@ the op: if you really are a "programmer" involved in any kind of design of commercial products (and from what you "suggest" it definitely seems you're not), you would know that posting non-final information from development meetings (which is a laughable request in itself) is an extremely unprofessional practice, that leads to disastrous PR problems when such information becomes obsolete and/or invalid due further refining of plans and actual practical implementation..
TL;DR version: horrible idea. The rest is the usual "i know better than you!" stuff. I should have known from the "open letter" part in the topic. That's normally a clear indication.

Other than that, I always have fun reading self professed "programmers" (mind you, i don't know many professional coders, especially in this field, that would refer to themselves as "programmers") that speculate on how the game is/should be coded without having seen a line of code of the game and without an ounce of experience in MMORPG coding.

@OP
-you forgot he changed the SP system from being stupid as fuck to amazing as damn :D

My problem with this thread is that people just assume changing a number on a spreadsheet is all you need to make in-game changes.

I assure you, it is no where near that simple. Not even for updating an enemy's hp. This is not the gamebryo engine, do stop acting like the debs are just sitting around waiting to push a button to fix the game.

That is all.

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Originally Posted by Loki_Jortunn

If you read if it was originally programmed correctly then the game should be very modular allowing new object to be added in easily and existing object to be modified without having unforseen knock on effects. I was writing in terms that the general public understand if i started to talk about relational databases, boolean expressions, call back functions or null pointers. Sure Yoshi should understand what i'm talking about but then the fact its an open later would limit the people that would read this post.

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And some things are quite modular. But if you aren't familiar with their tool set, you can't be sure about certain things. While i'm sure certain things are an easy change (stack sizes, for example), others may not be so simple. Mob size? It could be a simple database entry, but if the engine was made to use the model's exact dimensions (some engines do work like this), then you'd have to have that department re-export each model, or you'd have to have a coder go in and create that functionality.

And that is still not accounting for the decision making process. Do these mobs need to be bigger? Why? How much bigger?

While other systems will obviously just take more work. Adding a new NM, even if it uses an existing model, still needs time for the stats to be set, spawn timer and location to be determined, drop table (as well as new gear made/modeled). Adjusting party sizes requires other mechanics of the game to be re-examined, discussed, and fixed.

Oh, and don't forget about all the bit shifting and polymorphism and inheritance!

Things are happening in parallel. The easier of the tasks to complete we have seen already. The complex tasks are obviously taking more time, and we'll have to wait until they are ready before we see them. We shouldn't be rushing anything. It is nice outside (for most of us). Enjoy it a bit while you wait for the game to be up to snuff. At that time, just like I'll do, you can then become a cave dweller and play all day long.

Lets not make this about who knows what about programming, this is about getting information out of the development team.

People want to know what you are up to as it seems to be producing very little results so far. If you have something concrete and big planned for the future let us know what that is.

Companies might as well be a new inventory management system based on the lack of any info we have of them so far. Recently there was a page released where we were directed to learn "all about the companies system" but it gave us no info whatsoever.

Also you KNOW people are talking about jump, real FF jobs and the lack of questlines and good stories. You know you could easily set us all straight by letting us know if jump is coming or not. If the jobs are going to be changed to proper FF jobs with some variety and whether or not we'll see cutscenes or questlines of better quality in the future.

Personally based on this info I could easily decide if there's anything to look forward to in this game or not and continue playing.

Currently I've stopped playing exactly because of the lack of info and no answers to these questions.
If we don't know these features are on their way we can't endlessly "keep the faith" and that's why so many are quitting.

I would love to see more concept art.

I do feel the same way Loki, but I am not a programmer and since the game probably as more lines of code that I can imagine, maybe making 1 small change affects a lot of things? So, they need time to adjust everything?

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Originally Posted by Loki_Jortunn

Updating the game engine to DX11 was mentioned last year [...]

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It would be great to see that!

It seems a lot of things are still going on in Japan and Square-Enix offices, I'll continue to be patient. :)

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Originally Posted by Betelgeuzah

You want != you need.

More information != 'more forgiving' community.

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This I don't understand as if some people see SE as their mom or dad and they will defend it from any angle. Who cares? I NEED more info...hell, the only thing I've been looking forward to since launch is more info...I spend my time on the forums more than I do in the game.

Hi Loki,

I feel your frustration as well (I posted a thread asking about the status of various "big changes" to systems, etc.), but I'd have to say, I disagree with your request to have them post up the results of their weekly development / team meetings, and having more "smaller" surveys / polls to get immediate feedback all the time from players.

While it's important to know what your audience may like or hate in a game, there's also something to be said about "Design by Committee" or having "Too Many Cooks in the Kitchen."

It'd be disastrous, IMHO, to have them post up what they talked about every single week in their meetings and letting the entire public world rain down on their thoughts. We'd inevitably have people who like or hate every single point they're discussing, and you'd end up with a hodgepodge of things designed to try and appeal to everyone.

I'm not saying they don't share information - I think Yoshida-san has been far more communicative and given us more hope than his predecessor - but there's a limit on how much you're asking them to share.

At some we should trust Square-Enix to design and make the game. :)

They've gotten some key feedback from us already, now they go back and iterate and design and come up with something to make Final Fantasy XIV exciting, fun, and great. :)

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Originally Posted by Seif

Currently I've stopped playing exactly because of the lack of info and no answers to these questions.
If we don't know these features are on their way we can't endlessly "keep the faith" and that's why so many are quitting.

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I'm in the same boat. It is not like I'm saying that certain specific information HAS to be shared as in some kind of threat, but my motivation for ranking a class to R50 is = zero as I don't know what i'll be able to do with a R50 class in the near future of this game. So i just stopped logging in altogether. They know rumours are vile on this forum so why not just squash the rumours that aren't going to happen?

Currently playing FFXII Internationel Zodiac Job System and I love it.

I've so far leveled 3 combat classes to 50 almost have my 2nd craft to 50 and leveled pretty much everything up to level 20ish. Look up my lodestone page if you have trust issues. I've either gained alot or i'll loose a lot depending on how the systems are changed, that worries me but its not my main concern. I'm worried that the next month and a half we have to wait till the next patch i'm going to get another job to 50 and be well on my way to 50 on another craft and basic information on what they plan to do with the battle system could strongly influence how i play the next month and a half. It could make me charge through to get more jobs leveled, it could get me to stop leveling so i can fully enjoy the new system when its implemented or it can have no effect to how i've been leveling so far.

When Yoshi P took over information was quick and precise but in the last 3-4 producers letters its become increasing vague to the point that players are speculating wilder and wilder ideas, that will no doubt lead to some people being disappointed with the actual result. I'm not wanting 24/7 fly on the wall coverage on what the developers are doing just a weekly or fortnightly update by the larger teams to say - yes we are progressing as planned and will have this new system in place, or we have hit an issue with balancing that we didn't forsee and will have to spend another week getting the system balance.