Bard advanced tactics

OK, so I consider myself a good player, but however as I would expect from any good player I am always trying to improve. My Current rotation is as follows and I would love any advice to better myself.

On pull I open with Straight shot and bloodletter while putting up all my dps cooldowns, then put up my dots and my flame arrow. Then i try and keep my cooldowns on cooldown while refreshing my dots right as they fall off. I use straighter shot procs and keep bloodletter and miserys end on cooldown. Using heavy shot as filler. I of course play my songs when i notice healers at around 1k mana.

Basically any tips? Maybe things I am doing wrong or could improve?

Ur fine, just watch the clipping on your dots

If there are two targets, put your DoTs up on both, if we follow the simple assumption that if any DoT does less damage than our filler (Heavy Shot) we'd never use it, then we must also assume, it's a dps gain to ALWAYS cast DoTs over heavy shot assuming they are not already applied to the target. Now as of L48, we gain the passive "Rivers of Blood" which gives us a 50% chance of resetting bloodletter every time a DoT crits, this means if our DoTs have around 25-30% average crit chance... that if we run both DoTs on 2 targets we should be gaining an average of 1 reset per 2 ticks, meaning that double-dotting is a very strong dps increase for bard.

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What's the downside? Assuming you weave things in and don't clip your DoTs, there really isn't one, yes there's a chance that bloodletter will double-reset, and this chance is higher running 4 DoTs vs 2, but think about it, heavy shot isn't that great dps wise, even with the straight shot procs it gives. Usually I multi-dot on 2 targets, then outright AoE (Wide Volley/etc) on 3+, because I don't feel that doing a single target dps rotation is effective yes DoTs are around 300 effective potency, and give bloodletter so on 3 targets it's probably very close between DoTx3/BL spam and Wide Volley--->RoD--->QN but I feel the traditional AoE route is more efficient from a time management perspective, just remember to keep Straight Shot up!

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Note: if any advanced theorycrafters have exact #s for DoT damages and can shed light on multi-dotting vs AoE on 3 targets that would be great I've just been estimating based off observation and potency.

I always start out with my dots to give the tank plenty of time to gain agro. I also macro 1 buff into each skill so I can double tap (kind of like the old eq1 days before /stopsong). Buff/dot, buff/dot, buff/straight shot, misery/buff/bloodletter/heavyshot, or something like that - Im offline atm due to maintenance. Im told I should take bloodletter out, but I need to look into that a bit before I buy into it. But the idea is that heavy shot before bloodletter (instead of after) saves part of a gcd.

I didnt know you could see healer mp. Is that in config?

Okay so!
First off i noticed you said you only cast songs when healers are at low mp. You should only be using ballad during drawn out fights and under the same condition you stated. 75% of time you should be having Foe Requiem on to increase YOUR dps. During boss fights you should decide on whether or not to use Battle voice on Requiem or Ballad. MACRO YOUR BLOODLETTER AND MISERY TO HEAVY SHOT, STRAIGHT SHOT, VENOMOUS BITE, AND WIND BITE. You will never have to manually activate these skills again and will be used automatically during your rotation.
My normal rotation is: Straight Shot > Buffs (you can macro these together to) > wind bite > venomous bite > Flaming arrow/Rain of death > Heavy shot until Straighter shot proc > repeat.

If you want to get into min/maxing stats on gear look into these two links. (They took me forever to find but the information was worth it)
spreadsheet regarding stat affects on various jobs: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/...orcehl=1#gid=5
From looking at the above spread sheet you will notice the formula for STR on dragoon is the same as DEX on bard. That's where the information on this website becomes extremely useful.
http://valk.dancing-mad.com/?page_id...amageMechanics
I hope this has helped you out a bit and maybe i'll see you around Excalibur!

Can someone expand on situations where songs are optimal? I am still a little green to their use.

"I always start out with my dots to give the tank plenty of time to gain agro"
-That's why we have Quelling.

"I also macro 1 buff into each skill so I can double tap (kind of like the old eq1 days before /stopsong). Buff/dot, buff/dot, buff/straight shot, misery/buff/bloodletter/heavyshot, or something like that"

I disagree with spreading buffs across dots especially if it's dmg bonus's i.e. raging strikes, eagle, blood for blood. Dots tick at 3 second intervals I believe and tick at the same time regardless of when you apply them. If you buff as you are your dot dmg will be less on the previously applied.

I lead with quelling/straight > BL > WB > barrage > VB > flames prioritizing BL/miseries, heavy on fillers.

I would like to know how much its the increase of your Damage with Foe Requiem...
I mean we only have 2 elemental attacks, Windbite and Flaming arrow.

My only advice its to start always with Quelling Strikes, Good tanks can hold Nukes + Quelling Strikes...so you start using all your CDS.

And know the boss mechanics, Dont use your silence unless you know you dont mess with Tank interrupts so you have free dps there.
Also using Repelling Shot for more damage, but you have to know the boss...you dont just use repeling shot in Titan if you know Weight of Land is coming.

I never saw the sense of applying the a priority macro to straight shot especially when it should be the thing you lead with. It will throw up BL before your straight which would be kinda lame if you didn't have the crit bonus from straight up already. I just keep straight as it is and have misery/BL macro'd to the others.

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Originally Posted by Ohayo

I disagree with spreading buffs across dots especially if it's dmg bonus's i.e. raging strikes, eagle, blood for blood. Dots tick at 3 second intervals I believe and tick at the same time regardless of when you apply them. If you buff as you are your dot dmg will be less on the previously applied.

I lead with quelling/straight > BL > WB > barrage > VB > flames prioritizing BL/miseries, heavy on fillers.

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Are you recommending putting all buffs up at once? I went to spreading them out because it felt like I was spending too much time buffing at the start of the fight. 4 buffs not including straight shot.

You use 1 buff everytime after one attack that use GCD.

***Of course...DMG buff will never be a priority over Bloodletter...

You have to think...You have attacks with Global Cooldown, And also other abilities that doesnt use this GCD...so you have to use them while GCD its on.

But you gotta be sure that the attack has been done, or some abilities can override your last action.

You want your dots to have their buffed dmg rolling and then fall off on your first set then apply a new set. When quelling is about to fall off your dots should be just about done which then you refresh with dots that don't have increased dmg. you want the benefit of crit bonus to increase the chance youll get a BL proc. As everyone is talking about in here you want to avoid clipping yourself, if you're having to recast dots twice on a single target before they have even falling off it's a waste of gcd/tp/uptime which could have been spent on a heavy shot. As the fight goes on your buffs will spread themselves out and you can work in the gcd. At the start I throw them up when the tank is running in to get the benefit from my bites.

Well, I'm glad to see my rotation isn't too far off from what other people are doing. On boss fights, my rotation looks something like this:

- Quelling Strikes (while tank runs in to fight)
- Straight Shot (after first actual hit by tank)
- Internal Release on off-GCD (+20% crit chance)
- Windbite
- Bloodletter on off-GCD (I do this first one before the buffs so as not to miss any procs of Rivers of Blood)
- Venomous Bite
- Hawk's Eye on off-GCD (swap Bloodletter if procs)
- Heavy Shot (swap Straighter Shot if procs)
- Raging Strikes on off-GCD (swap Bloodletter if procs)
- Heavy Shot (swap Straighter Shot if procs)
- Barrage on off-GCD (swap Bloodletter if procs)
- Heavy Shot (swap Straighter Shot if procs)

At this point, I just keep working Heavy Shot unless Straighter shot procs (or needs a rebuff of Straight Shot), with Bloodletter/Misery's End on off-GCD. As the DoT's fall off, I refresh them. Then, as the fight progresses, I reuse the CD's as they come up individually.

I'd appreciate any critique of my opening volleys. For single target bosses, I'm not sure if it's worth working Flaming Arrow into the opening rotation because of the slightly longer setup time (i.e. not just a button press) or Rain of Death because of its high TP cost. These seem to me to be skills worth dropping in situationally, like if the boss isn't going to be moving much or if the healer needs a slight lessening of their burden.

One question I would have is, is there ever a time Battle Voice isn't particularly useful?

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Originally Posted by Kroktar

I would like to know how much its the increase of your Damage with Foe Requiem...

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10% damage increase goes a long way let's look at it this way: Wind bite deals 60 potency initially then 40 potency on each tic after for 18 sec. DoTs tic every 3 sec on a server timer so your potency of wind bite is 300 in total (give or take some)
using the formula: AVG WS DMG = (Potency/100) x [(0.0032 x DEX + 0.4162) x WD + (0.1001 x DEX - 0.3529) + (DTR – 202) x 0.035]
With my current stats the AVG WS DMG of windbite is: 302.4249 = (300/100) x [(0.0032 x 402 + 0.4162) x 35 + (0.1001 x 402 - 0.3529) + (240 – 202) x 0.035]
adding the 10% of Foe requiem = 332.66739 (a 30.24249 increase)
If 332.331 = (300/100) x [(0.0032 x 449 + 0.4162) x 35 + (0.1001 x 449 - 0.3529) + (240 – 202) x 0.035]
that means the damage increase of foe requiem on windbite is = 47 DEX (which is huge)
this isnt even factoring in crit and using battle voice

It seems slightly dangerous to burn up your MP pool for Requiem when there isn't at least a BLM in the party. I would think that, unless you're in a static where you know and trust your party, it's better to save that MP for Ballad, especially in a DF group. It might be good for execution phase to get a little burst damage, but I certainly would advise against using Requiem early in a fight.

use Rain of Death on heavy hitting bosses before they do their strongest attacks (like TItan before he stomps).

Your healers will want to party with you because they win more with you and dont know why...

Ok so lets get this straight. Foe requiem doesn't increase any moves for bard (haven't checked with other classes) so don't make assumptions without actually testing it. I submitted a bug report showing through tests that foe requiem is broken a few weeks ago and it has yet to move to another section. Check it out in the game yourself. Try just using windbite and record the initial damage and the DoTs. Then put up requiem and fire at a foe and record again. Requiem has no effect for bard's moves and probably has no effect at all (haven't tried with a mage).

I know its been said not to ever clip a DOT, but what are your opinions on clipping them right before a buff runs out? For example, If I use Internal Release, apply dots, then right before Internal Release goes away, clip the dots so they retain the crit bonus for another 18 seconds?

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Originally Posted by UBERHAXED

Ok so lets get this straight. Foe requiem doesn't increase any moves for bard (haven't checked with other classes) so don't make assumptions without actually testing it. I submitted a bug report showing through tests that foe requiem is broken a few weeks ago and it has yet to move to another section. Check it out in the game yourself. Try just using windbite and record the initial damage and the DoTs. Then put up requiem and fire at a foe and record again. Requiem has no effect for bard's moves and probably has no effect at all (haven't tried with a mage).

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Say not to make assumptions, then make bad assumptions yourself. . .Anyway, Requiem decidedly does work for BLM, as the BLM I regularly run with absolutely loves it when I use it, because he watches his numbers spike up. Some have claimed that it also boosts SMN damage, but I have no evidence for that either way.

In that specific circumstance I would say clipping a dot is justified. Ofcourse that depends on how many seconds you actually gain by doing it, but in theory, definetly. The reason being, which many does not seem to understand, the dots themselves does not need any damage increase or whatever, you want the 20% from IR and 10% from SS so that your bloodletter has a much greater chance to reset thanks to your trait. And for everyone that thinks multidotting is useful, let me tell you that it is not, it does not double or triple your chancs to gain a bloodletter procc so don't waste your dps on doing so.

Requiem is only to be used when there is a BLM in group. It's the only time it is usefull.
I play mana song on request and only if the current state of the fight allows for a dps loss (ie: never play mana song during a dps race phase)

I made a few test in regards to buffs stacking.
Using attack to make use of GCD when casting buff compared to cast all buff at once do not impact dps at all.
However using a few buff for DoTs and saving some for later, is a dps loss. Alll buff should be active when casting DoTs at fight start (unless fight requires a high burst later on or you to slow down dps)
If DoT fades and you are missing a few seconds on buffs CD, you should wait for the buff before casting DoTs.
Never refresh DoTs unless those were cast without buff.

As for consumable, you should use crit food and not determination/crit food. The crit is too low on deter food which result on a dps loss (but it is a very small difference)
Always use Dex pot over any other kind of pot.

Herp.

There is no such thing as "double proccing" bloodletter.

This discussion has been done to death.

You will NEVER have to worry about missing a bloodletter proc if you weave it as first priority between every GCD.

This also means NO ability should ever be used on a GCD that isn't heavy shot, straight shot, windbite or venomous bite.

If you stick with this strategy, the opener that someone else posted, and stack buffs whenever possible, and remember to refresh dots just before buffs expire, you will be doing max dps with a bard.

"When to sing" is entirely situational. If you have at least one BLM in the party, sing requiem as the tank is starting to run to the boss, immediately quelling and go on with your rotation. Then when you have a free GCD (after your opening buffs), use bard's voice.

Alternatively bard's voice immediately if you can time the pull well enough for requiem.

Just a couple of thoughts

Foe Requiem is not a straight 10% damage increase. It decreases enemies elemental resistances by 10%.

DoT clipping is completely up to the player in my opinion. DoT's run on a global timer. Sometimes your damage from your DoT may stop when the buff icon is still on the 1-3sec mark and sometimes it ticks all the way down with the timer, it just depends. Check out Mr.Happy's video. It will help a lot.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aQGGT...aUt-HBBZctO9cg

I use the following macros

/ac "Straight Shot" <t>
/ac "Bloodletter" <t>
/ac "Misery's End" <t>


/ac "Misery's End" <t>
/ac "Bloodletter" <t>
/ac "Heavy Shot" <t>


/ac "Venomous Bite" <t>
/ac "Bloodletter" <t>
/ac "Misery's End" <t>


/ac "Wind Bite" <t>
/ac "Bloodletter" <t>
/ac "Misery's End" <t>


Regarding DoTs I refresh when the icon disappears from target debuff area. Song wise I use Foe Requiem during trash, the other 2 I use at half TP and 75% MP for casters.

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Originally Posted by Thotor

I made a few test in regards to buffs stacking.
Using attack to make use of GCD when casting buff compared to cast all buff at once do not impact dps at all.

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This doesn't make any sense to me. You are saying that taking the time to pop all your CD's before firing a single shot (which wastes progressively more time for each) is no detriment to your dps? I have a hard time seeing the increased damage you give to the DoTs through waiting counteracting the loss of damage by not firing a single shot. If you have some numbers to put up to back up this claim, I would appreciate being able to see that.

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Originally Posted by Slirith

I use the following macros

/ac "Straight Shot" <t>
/ac "Bloodletter" <t>
/ac "Misery's End" <t>


/ac "Misery's End" <t>
/ac "Bloodletter" <t>
/ac "Heavy Shot" <t>


/ac "Venomous Bite" <t>
/ac "Bloodletter" <t>
/ac "Misery's End" <t>


/ac "Wind Bite" <t>
/ac "Bloodletter" <t>
/ac "Misery's End" <t>


Regarding DoTs I refresh when the icon disappears from target debuff area. Song wise I use Foe Requiem during trash, the other 2 I use at half TP and 75% MP for casters.

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see above. very much the same. use macros, they help

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Originally Posted by CatholicFan

This doesn't make any sense to me. You are saying that taking the time to pop all your CD's before firing a single shot (which wastes progressively more time for each) is no detriment to your dps? I have a hard time seeing the increased damage you give to the DoTs through waiting counteracting the loss of damage by not firing a single shot. If you have some numbers to put up to back up this claim, I would appreciate being able to see that.

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Putting attacks between buffs means that you will loose dps on barrage. Because of animation time, you would loose like an extra 4 sec which means at least 3 auto attack won't be at full strength.
To be honest, I have not looked as to why exactly the dps is the same on both case. This a deduction made from actual test using a parser to determine which method was better (and they are equal)

I thought auto attacks come out no matter the animation or not? Similar to how you can cancel the animation of say bloodletter into Misery end but still get the damage on both? o.O

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Originally Posted by NeonC

I thought auto attacks come out no matter the animation or not? Similar to how you can cancel the animation of say bloodletter into Misery end but still get the damage on both? o.O

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I was implying barrage buff which triple auto attack

Yeah, I thought the auto-attacks occurred regardless of whatever else you were doing. Even if it was the case where you were losing auto-attacks, why wouldn't you just move Barrage to later in the buff cycle? You'd want Barrage going off last with everything else already up anyways, so your argument still doesn't really make sense.

So, reading through this thread...

Am I the only Bard that uses Repelling Shot every time it's up?

It's a weak but basically free, off-GCD hit every 30 seconds. Seems like a waste not to use it as long as it's reasonably safe to do so (99.9% of the time).

Sample rotation:

- Buffs
- Straight Shot
- Bloodletter
- Windbite
- Flaming Arrow
- Venomous Bite, while running into melee range
- Repelling Shot, get punted back out to original position
- Rain of Death
- Hard-shot spam until something better pops up.

The same can be said for Blunt Arrow in fights that don't require stuns/silences. If you're not using all your off-GCD skills as often as the situation allows, you're losing out on free DPS.

Also -- and this is nitpicking now -- if you're using priority macros, put the off-GCD skills at the BOTTOM and learn to double-tap; or mash if you're lazy -_-.

Everyone seems to put Bloodletter/Misery's End at the top of their macros...which means that a lot of the time they'll be throwing out Off-GCD skills while sitting on a fully reset GCD. This hurts your DPS.

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Originally Posted by Wren_Kal

Am I the only Bard that uses Repelling Shot every time it's up?

It's a weak but basically free, off-GCD hit every 30 seconds. Seems like a waste not to use it as long as it's reasonably safe to do so (99.9% of the time).

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I hear what you're saying, but this is a really bad idea outside of trash pulls. You want to be at max range whenever possible for most boss fights. The kickback on Repelling Shot isn't nearly to this point. It's tempting, with a Bard's mobility, to do a lot of running around, but players should be refraining from unnecessary movement as much as possible. If you're constantly running forward and back, you're risking putting extra aoe circles within melee range, you're risking activating a back-side attack, and you're probably running out of song range from your mages. The unpredictability of boss fights means this is just a bad idea overall for a measly 80 potency attack.

Edit to add: As for Blunt Arrow, that's not a bad idea as long as you know you won't need it in a boss fight (and I'd say you rarely do).

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Originally Posted by CatholicFan

Yeah, I thought the auto-attacks occurred regardless of whatever else you were doing. Even if it was the case where you were losing auto-attacks, why wouldn't you just move Barrage to later in the buff cycle? You'd want Barrage going off last with everything else already up anyways, so your argument still doesn't really make sense.

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I have been trying this, with my actual weapon i get 3 auto attacks, i tried doing silly stuff over and over, and i think i always get the 3 auto attacks(9 with barrage)

The biggest tip I can give is that with River of Blood proccing a refresh on bloodletter when your DoT's crit, you want to make sure you refresh your dots when you have a crit buff on.. such as Internal Release from the monk tree. The DoTs use the snapshot method of calculating how much crit/damage they should have. That snapshot is taken at the moment you hit with the skill. So if you put them on before straight shot, then refresh once you have the buff. If you use internal release, reapply and let them run out before reapplying.

About the whole Internal Release dotclipping you mention there Omega, it sounds good at first, but looking closer to it i don't know if it's actually a dpsgain in theory.

Assuming you do indeed clip the dots right on time, you have to use:

IR:15s-->WB (18s remaining)-->VB 18s remaining (IR down to 12s, WB 15s)--> Wait another 6 seconds before reapplying-->WB (15-6=9, 18-9=9) this means you gain 3 ticks of WB. VB: 18-6=12 (which means you gain 2 ticks of VB). In this last step the internal release is now down to 0s after you reapplied your second VB.

This means in theory that if you do it spot on you gain 3 ticks of "Windbite" and 2 ticks of "Venomous Bite" which could have been used for 2 Heavy Shots instead of a reapply on these 2 skills, so in order for it to be beneficial these 5 ticks combined must have a higher damage output than 2 Heavy Shots in order for it to be viable (I do not count the Bloodletter procc chance because I have no estimates of the approximate procctime and I go on straight facts and not chances).