Ampadoor Keep - Tank please explain where we went wrong!

One of my l/s needs to complete AK for his relic weapon and as no one was around we thought we'd duty finder the tank. Everything was going well, he had a couple of sticky moments where he'd lose hate but no one said anything.
We then went onto beat the first boss with no issue. I said good job to everyone and he piped up that the SMN and DRG needed to learn to dps, and deserted the dungeon..Now am i wrong or isnt the aim of this dungeon, indeed any dungeon, to be about team work. We didnt wipe, we didnt run into any problems so whats the issue.
Its idiots like this that ruin the game for everyone else. His tanking wasnt by any means exemplary but we didnt call him out on it. :confused:

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Originally Posted by Undrentide

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Who cares, move on?

Not trying to be crass, but really why should one a-holes opinion matter? You will run into more of them, I assure you.

Guess he felt dps was too low and took too long to kill the boss and thought you stood no chance against demon wall.

To be fair, as a tank who's done AK a lot, there are times where DPS is really low and it takes forever to kill the first boss. I usually carry on the run cause I like to give things a go but more often than not you wont get past demon wall due to the purple stuff at the back and it moving towards you. Once you get into that purple full time there's very little chance you will win, but it is possible.

A lot of tanks can tell when a run will take 45 mins and when a run will take 2 hours from the first boss and just leave. My advice would be to just run with LS/FC cause then you can work on it together where nobody really minds what gear you're using, or hoping you get a tank that sticks it out so you can get a bit of gear from the dungeon and gear up as you go.

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Originally Posted by Kyriea

To be fair...

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Would have to agree with Kyriea here. Watching the first boss literally go down after only 1-2 adds have spawned, as opposed to watching 10 adds spawn before the boss is even down to 25% will sway anyone away from attempting the Wall Boss. The biggest thing for most classes are the weapons. Full AF gear will only get you so far, but if you are still running with level 40 weapons it's time to step it up. Level 45 bare minimum weapon (preferably lvl 50) would help out a great deal, not to mention having the extra cross-class abilities from different classes depending on what your current class/job is.

The wall boss and the last boss are very unforgiving when it comes to people who lack dps. They will kill you, and quite easily if you don't have the appropriate damage output.

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Originally Posted by Vid

Would have to agree with Kyriea here. Watching the first boss literally go down after only 1-2 adds have spawned, as opposed to watching 10 adds spawn before the boss is even down to 25%

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The only way that is even possible is if people are just auto-attacking.

Without quick DPS, you guys will probably have a hard time during Demon Wall probably. Last boss is easy though.

weird, I did demon wall last night with only one dps, the other dps died when the bees came out. We were standing in the poison for two full pushes before the wall died. I think it's doable.

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Originally Posted by Kyriea

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Kyriea hit it right on the money. If you run AK enough it gets to the point where you know whether your going to have a long and troubling run, or a short and generally easy run. A lot of that causes players to simply drop because they don't see trying the run as worth the time.

I myself am like Kyriea, I try to run the Dungeon regardless. I've had groups where we beat the dungeon with only a minute left and I was the only one left standing to clinch the win on every boss. I've also had groups where we ran the whole dungeon without a single wipe and left after winning with 78 minutes still on the clock.

Don't let the action of one person deter you. Keep on going, the groups out there queuing DF are more then a little varied, and there's sure to be an excellent group waiting.

I'm to the point where I know high dps on my server and I pick them up whenever I want to run AK and run with the same people over and over again. So if your dps is lacking, your weapon is low, etc think of what that does to the Que Times. If tanks prefer running locally they won't even bother queing up and you wait longer. Eventually tanks will be really dried up on the DF and the only ones that are in the DF will be under geared themselves.

I agree with the above comments in that if your damage is too low against the first boss you can generally see when a party can't clear the Wall. There's no need to be rude about it, however, you can give them a warning saying "Yeah, I'm not sure if we have enough damage" or something similar.

However I have been surprised a few times and had my expectations turned on my head. I've had groups where we were absolutely abysmal on the first boss, but then everyone seems to get into their "flow" and clears the rest of the dungeon perfectly.

Demon wall is a pain but i can understand when you can easly tell if its even possible with the dps. However using the 1st boss to determine if demon wall is possible should be taken with a grain of salt. I did ak a bit ago with another black mage, we both had our ifrit wep the 1st boss did take a bit long to take down due to moving n having to cast., however when we got to demon wall , before the bees spawned he was close to 1/3 left of health, we burned it down pretty fast. just the adds toook some time (easy with aoe lb). We had more trouble with the 1st boss for some reason than demon wall.

I have run with groups that took almost as long to kill the rock add as it does before the next add spawns, which means VERY little time on the actual boss (but the tank) and it can take way too many adds. Now does this mean they will not finish the wall? well recently it does seem this has been an issue and I can see why the tank may have not wanted to waste 15min to get to the wall if he truly did not think it would be downed, although I personally would have at least tried and worst case replaced one dps when it wasn't working hoping for a better dps to take out the wall.

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Originally Posted by Aicasia

The only way that is even possible is if people are just auto-attacking.

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Did AK with a summoner that did nothing but use ruin while his pet attacked. Almost never put up his dots. The dps was awful.

I have pugged 50 minute AK runs. Yesterday I had a couple of oddball dps in my group though. Low dps, dying to purple, etc. Wiped 3 times on the wall, 4-5 on the last boss, got him down to 5% twice. Dragoon was complaining about his horrible gear the entire time.

We timed out of the instance, first time ever. If you don't know your class and at least try to optimize yourself a bit before going into AK, don't expect people to carry your dead weight. That was one of the most frustrating experiences i've had in ff so far. I totally understand why you'd bail on low dps. It gets pretty easy to foresee who is going to be able to clear the wall and who is going to waste an hour of your time wiping to it.

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Originally Posted by Aicasia

The only way that is even possible is if people are just auto-attacking.

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Or someone who played FFXI where you dont hit abilities on cool down and they haven't learned that this isn't FFXI.

Even the last boss has a DPS Check. Easily mitigated when the damn gargoyle spawns - just SMN/BLK LB it, which usually kills boss too.

The wall as well, tank tanks, LB the adds, know the rotation and go at it. This is why I don't like the Duty Finder. We run these all internally to our FC, and have multiple classes we can do it with for kick if someone else needs it.

But yea, I've had undergeared tanks in AK and we've asked them to leave, politely, because we'd just wipe because they can't take a hit. (level 10 rings and such).

Hard to imagine there's such a large gap between DPS, from some parties unable to kill wall at all, to groups killing wall before the adds even spawn.

Someone got offended by something someone else on the internet did! Time to make another new thread about it!

my best duty finder group clocked in at 40min through the run (War, Mnk, Blm, Whm)
my worst duty finder group timed out. Cleared the wall and for some reason healer couldn't figure out how to avoid Catastrophy... even when we told him to just stand in one place and not move (unless line then run away and come back) he died to it.

As a tank it is ... very easy to tell by the end of the first boss if a group will be able to clear the dungeon... Do you get CC from Whm/Blm? does your Smn use DOTs? Are your melee helping stun either AoE or summons? How fast are cures coming in (and potent)? Are DPS focusing on a target (doubly so when targets are marked)?

He should have been nicer about it and explained the problems. But after first boss I don't feel bad saying "I'm going to eat the 15min wait, because I'm not happy on X reason" You can argue your case before I leave, but if I'm at that point it's probably a done deal.

I've ran through AK as a DSP with broken gear (forgot to fix it before entering) and a drg that knew nothing of the fight and we got all the way to the last boss. The DRG died at the wall and we ended up in the purp but we still beat the wall, finally we ran out of time because the DRG didnt know where to stand and Sch having lag issues.

Yes not that I would do that, but you can tell very soon (even on the trash mobs) if the group wont get past the wall.

I really don't understand any issues people have with AK at times, if the tank left because he thought the dps was too low then all I can think of is that the DDs didn't have the bare minimal of the level 45-50 class quest gear and the level 44 company weapon at minimal, everything else simply doesn't matter for the most part as I did it with a few low level trash accesorys and the gear i listed, also had a DRG with the same gear as me (don't know on accesorys) and we still got the instance beaten, I've mentioned this on another thread before but damn...AK really isn't that hard.