Adjust Castrum

Edit: I appreciate the discussion. Thank you for keeping it civil.

I'd like to see a change to Castrum (and all story instances). There seem to be two major groups running Castrum - those who want to watch scenes since its their first time and those who want to speed run.

So my suggestion is two fold:
1.) Lock players in cutscenes when somebody in group is doing it the first time.
2.) Increase tomestone rewards for all players when somebody in their group is doing it the first time.

People watch their scenes. Others get a bonus for staying. Hopefully it cuts down on d-bags from both sides.

Edit:

To discuss some concerns with the idea, I'm bringing a post further in to the OP:

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I'm unsure how somebody could continually troll groups, after running it once they would be marked as having seen in so they wouldn't have the option to lock.

Some things SE could think about:

1.) When the new person (s) finish the scene all people are allowed to exit as they wish
2.) The reward would justify the wait, meaning the tomestone bonus could equal or beat the 'tomestones per hour' of average speedrun.
3.) Instance timer doesn't tick down when in cutscene.
4.) Cutscene has a max time allotted before people are able to bypass the lock.
Many more.

I hadn't gone into detail since these are things that would come up during player/SE testing, not really my/our job to brainstorm for them.

I personally don't like the 'checkbox' for new/experienced since it divides the pool of players who are ultimately looking to do the same run.

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Exactly what I said yesterday, minus the locking people in, cause that's gonna get old, fast.

I think increasing a reward for completion would be enough of an incentive for people to not be douche-nozzles and lock people out of boss fights. Trash? Who cares about trash, seriously.

"farming pros" will just leave after the first cutscene lockout.
unless the extra reward will justify the extra half hour of their precious endgame time. which it probably will not.

@aver

People would be just as inclined to make it a fast run without the lock, imo,since It would translate to just bonus tomestones for that speedrun.

@aibo

The premise for the idea is that the bonus tomestones would justify the wait.

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Originally Posted by BoomerOU

The premise for the idea is that the bonus tomestones would justify the wait.

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some cuscenes have dialogues in them which the player have to advance. so if anyone goes afk, you're locked until they get back. if ever.
not to mention trolls who would purposely lock the group in a cutscene.

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Originally Posted by Aibo

some cuscenes have dialogues in them which the player have to advance. so if anyone goes afk, you're locked until they get back. if ever.
not to mention trolls who would purposely lock the group in a cutscene.

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Set a max timer for cutscene? These are details that can be ironed out by SE and player testing.

I did Castrum for the first time yesterday. Though I was the only one there for story, the rest were understanding. They did go ahead of me (I was one of the tanks) but the cutscenes are all of 30-45 seconds long if you read at a normal pace. They don't really get that far ahead of you. The only problem I really ran into was not knowing what to do most of the time, they did very little explaining.

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Originally Posted by Aibo

"farming pros" will just leave after the first cutscene lockout.
unless the extra reward will justify the extra half hour of their precious endgame time. which it probably will not.

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Precious endgame time lol......

I was lucky I suppose. I was healing and fully determined to watch my cutscenes for my first play through(so F@#$ anyone else) and fortunately so was the other healer. Everyone was trying to rush through everything but if they rushed in w/o paying attention to healer cutscenes and died no one blamed us. People would just say "Wait for the healers to finish CS" and we moved on with a nice run.

i'd be all for ideas like this...IF and only IF they also made it so Cutscenes didn't cut into the time required to complete instances.

I did praetorium or whatever its called with a group who insisted on watching every cut scenes to its fullest. (i dont blame them since its the end of the story and kinda badass...) BUT...the timer is rolling the entire time. We made it to the end with 10 minutes left...and only died once because 2 people got disconnected. (other delays were explaining fights to noobs) time limit gets too close for comfort when people watch ALL the cutscenes...

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Originally Posted by Mazley

Precious endgame time lol......

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well it is, isn't it? they do complain about people wasting their time with crap gear, lack of skill and/or experience, stupid cutscenes, what have you.
they want "guaranteed victory" now, with minimal time and effort.

anyway, fixing the cutscenes (i bet people will complain about those lockouts) is not fixing the original problem, which is SE's poor design that turned story dungeon into a farming zone.

Here's the problem with this line of reasoning.

You can only run Castrum for the first time once. After that, it is no longer your first time and you fall into category 2.
The number of people running Castrum for the first time will dwindle rapidly the longer the game is out, meanwhile the people speed running will increase.
Queue times will increase for people in category 1 who will then beg for something to be done.
People will want everyone inconvenienced because a small number feel inconvenienced and slighted.

Something should be done but it needs to be addressed in a way that is a net positive for everyone, rather than sharing a negative with everyone.

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Originally Posted by Aibo

well it is, isn't it? they do complain about people wasting their time with crap gear, lack of skill and/or experience, stupid cutscenes, what have you.
they want "guaranteed victory" now, with minimal time and effort.

anyway, fixing the cutscenes (i bet people will complain about those lockouts) is not fixing the original problem, which is SE's poor design that turned story dungeon into a farming zone.

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i agree with you on that. I just hate end game now cause of all the colossus asshats running around

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Originally Posted by EvokerKeii

Here's the problem with this line of reasoning.

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As people enter category 2 would they not just continue to run as they are now? Speedrunning when they can, enjoying helping others via a bonus. The status quo for the moment is to run it whatever category you are in since it is a strong source of tomestones.

I don't really get how queue times would increase, besides just the level 50 population growing. The queues for both categories should remain the same. Only when the gear is obsolete will queues begin to increase, which means speedruns will cease altogether, but that is normal via horizontal profession.

I think you are under the impression that once you move from one category to the other that you no longer can queue with the other. Under those circumstances, yes category 1 queues would increase, but that is not what is suggested.

I don't know about you guys, but if I have forced down times in a dungeon I go do something else on the side and come back to check on the game 2 to 10min later...
Well usually I play with friends so they tell me when to come back because they don't want to die, but if I'm solo it's bound to happen that you'll get a healer afk when you go on with your dungeon...

oh well not my problem, one more wipe or not because of an afk heal is not a big deal imo

Actually that's not a shit suggestion. I'm especially fond of your second point. Incentivizing patience is very clever. Hats off to you sir. I wish there was a way to differentiate though where it only locks if someone is that "first time" guy. I'd hate to think trolls can continually re-watch the CSs locking everyone into them time and time again. The "story experience" excuse is like a "get out of jail free" card. You get that pass once, shouldn't be infinite because the opposite abuse is then open. Closing one abuse door and opening another is just bad design.

I'd rather do a quick run, skipping all cutscenes, so I can quickly requeue afterwards than spend twice as long as necessary because someone wants to watch them. Besides, there are far too many asshats who AFK in cutscenes, or AFK at the starting point, and get free Tomestones. This game needs a vote kick function in duty finder groups as well as a fix to cutscenes that allows people to just sit in them endlessly. I've seen far more of that going on than actual players wanting to watch them. Besides, if you want to watch cutscenes, you should go in with friends who will wait for you, rather than inconvenience the majority of the playerbase who you know is there for a farming run. Or better yet - you can always go back to your inn room and watch the cutscenes there on your own time.

They could separate the queues a little.

[ ] New
[ ] Experienced

You could check a box for which group you want. Then everyone's happy :o

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Originally Posted by EmeraldSerenade

They could separate the queues a little.

[ ] New
[ ] Experienced

You could check a box for which group you want. Then everyone's happy :o

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Also a great suggestion. You choose, you own the consequences. Personal responsibility +1. And it also side steps arbitrary locks on things. This is too much work on SE's party frankly but I wish that, in addition to the two check boxes, the "experienced" choice runs the instance sans any CSs at all so it's not even a possible issue of skip or no skip anyhow.

On that note, please add an option to turn CSs off entirely after the first time you run something.

This is a fine compromise. I'd add to it that cutscenes should be locked for players who have already completed it so as to avoid trolling and the unnecessary replaying of things that have already been seen.

I try not to be a jerk about it for new players, but in 3 groups last night for Praetorium and CM, there were 7 of us ready to go and 1 person not ready, so we 7 man'd everything. It's not the nicest thing in the world, but neither his holding up 7 other players. In Praetorium, we were able to kill 2 different bosses in the time it took the person to watch their pre-boss movies. That's excessive.

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Originally Posted by EmeraldSerenade

They could separate the queues a little.

[ ] New
[ ] Experienced

You could check a box for which group you want. Then everyone's happy :o

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Wouldn't this lead to long queue times as soon as less and less people has this quest pending?

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Originally Posted by Leiloni

Besides, if you want to watch cutscenes, you should go in with friends who will wait for you, rather than inconvenience the majority of the playerbase who you know is there for a farming run.

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And that's the crux of the argument. The vast majority of players running these dungeons have already completed them. Yes, it's unfortunate for new players, but the fact remains that we've already done/seen this place dozens of times. There have been several very reasonable compromises and suggested improvements to the current system. At least everyone can agree that we need something different than what we have right now.

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Originally Posted by Kenka

Wouldn't this lead to long queue times as soon as less and less people has this quest pending?

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Yes. You could either wait for the long queue (which you would only have to do once if you finish the instance) or pick the other option then view the Cutscenes from your Inn room.

@angrynixon

I'm unsure how somebody could continually troll groups, after running it once they would be marked as having seen in so they wouldn't have the option to lock.

Some things SE could think about:

1.) When the new person (s) finish the scene all people are allowed to exit as they wish
2.) The reward would justify the wait, meaning the tomestone bonus could equal or beat the 'tomestones per hour' of average speedrun.
3.) Instance timer doesn't tick down when in cutscene.
4.) Cutscene has a max time allotted before people are able to bypass the lock.
Many more.

I hadn't gone into detail since these are things that would come up during player/SE testing, not really my/our job to brainstorm for them.

I personally don't like the 'checkbox' for new/experienced since it divides the pool of players who are ultimately looking to do the same run.

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Originally Posted by BoomerOU

@angrynixon

I'm unsure how somebody could continually troll groups, after running it once they would be marked as having seen in so they wouldn't have the option to lock.
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Hi Boomer,

That's what I meant ya, sorry if that was missed somewhere. I was saying that if it CAN lock every time, it could be trolled. Wasn't clear to me, and that's my failing, that your solution implied being unable to lock in subsequent attempts.

AN-

Guild Wars 2 solved this one a long time ago. Square should of borrowed a page from them.

Seperate instances into "Story Mode" and "Exploration mode". Story mode would of course have sub par drops, and not drop tomes. So once people did that once they would have no reason to do it (except helping friends etc) which would keep queue integrity for the exploration mode.

Boom, problem solved.

The OP makes a good suggestion. If there is no first time players in the group then there should be no cut scenes they should be auto skipped. If there is a new player then cut scenes are locked by default, as a bonus you get a 50% increase in reward for everyone by getting a first time player through it.

Seperating the instances between new and experienced is not the answer as you will just get to the point where there aren't enough new players to do the content.

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Originally Posted by Kenka

Wouldn't this lead to long queue times as soon as less and less people has this quest pending?

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that's going to happen regardless.

people are running castrum because the instance servers only allow X of any particular instanced dungeon to be open at a time - AK has a wait time before entering even with a full party, so people do castrum.

when their next patch hits, there's 2 new level 50 dungeons being added. people will be in the new dungeons and castrum won't see nearly as many (if any) speed runners queue'ing up anymore.

the people hitting those final story dungeons for their first time are going to end up doing them with all new people, in a queue that took several hours to pop (just like the people that did them within a few days of the servers going live)

If it's your first time in Castrum or Praetorium, and you care about cut-scenes, watch them. Nobody can force you to skip them, even if they can start fights without you. People are going to be annoyed, maybe even jerks. If you cannot handle the backlash, maybe an MMO is not for you, because those people don't go away (though hopefully some of them move on to other games).

It's worth noting, I'm a bit of a slower reader. Yet, when I did both Castrum Meridianum and Praetorium my first time, my group had lots of time left. I think we had over 40 minutes going into Ultima Weapon, and I read/watched every cut-scene. If you only have 10 minutes left by the time you're hitting Ultima, I think there might be other issues with your group besides cut-scenes.

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Originally Posted by BoomerOU

1.) Lock players in cutscenes when somebody in group is doing it the first time.

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Defiance--and I assume some other games--have a feature like this. Cutscenes cannot be skipped unless the entire group chooses to skip them.

Personally I wouldn't be a fan of it in FFXIV. Watchers give non-watchers a chance to chat, sort inventory, do a quick afk, etc--the kind of things many players (obsessed with speed runs) wouldn't tolerate.

They could just add another dungeon for tome farming....that isn't connected to storyline...

Or maybe have a new dungeon to farm philo instead of adjusting the old ones?

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Originally Posted by Zyeriis

They could just add another dungeon for tome farming....that isn't connected to storyline...

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Originally Posted by Mhyrria

Or maybe have a new dungeon to farm philo instead of adjusting the old ones?

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Yeah that.......

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Originally Posted by Mhyrria

Or maybe have a new dungeon to farm philo instead of adjusting the old ones?

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New dungeons are still 2 (or more if 2.1 is delayed) months away. This fix could alleviate the problem within the week since its more akin to a fix (afk logout/exploiting mobs) than it is to an actual content release.

Also, if this were made standard, SE would be able to continue making story content valuable to players beyond the first run (which I would bet that they do) without having to deal with the discrepancy of what people are looking for out of the run (loot vs story).