Which HEALER do you prefer?

There is a topic in the healer subforums about which tanking class we prefer. So I figured it would be interesting to flip the script. State your job/class and which healer you prefer SCH or WHM preferably a motivation on why sa well :D.

They will all say SCH cause it doesn't pull as much hate. :p

As a Warrior trying to get to 50 and then planning to level a healer (I love doing both) I have not ran enough with one or the other to make an educated argument. But I'm definitely interested to see the discussion.

@Shyluv - I understand I have not done any end game content but I can't say that this would factor into my decision as thus far I have had no issues holding threat as a warrior :)

I like them both... But in a few fights WHM heal aggro can make things a bit harder... The ones i can think of off the top of my head are the Bees on demonwall ( pretty much a non-issue at this point) and as an off tank the sister adds in the Howling eye.

For throughput both are fine. But for the love of god WHM pull a lot of threat. I don't know what it is. I feel like half the WHM's I run with decide to cast Medica II on the pull just to troll me. On Titan, I will have threat then bam, after first tumults / stomp WHM pulls w/ 2-3 the aggro of anyone else in the party. It's ridiculous. What is up with that anyway?

prefer both whm and sch haven't had any problems yet doing Stone Vigil via Duty finder will upload clip soon for it.

I don't really have a preference

but yes whm aggro can be annoying

Problem is a lot of healers do not know that overhealing generates extra agro

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Originally Posted by Hachiko

I feel like half the WHM's I run with decide to cast Medica II on the pull just to troll me. On Titan, I will have threat then bam, after first tumults / stomp WHM pulls w/ 2-3 the aggro of anyone else in the party. It's ridiculous. What is up with that anyway?

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I asked a WHM about that once. He told me that he wanted to get the regen effect on everyone. You know, completely ignorant of the fact that no one had taken any damage nor would they for the duration of said regen effect.

I think most healers are so used to never having to worry about threat that they just think that they'll never get it no matter what they do. I've seen WHM that didn't even have Shroud of Saints on their bar.

i prefer both,
but if i tanking caster boss (similar 1st boss AK) then i prefer WHM for the Adv. Protect

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Originally Posted by Shyluv

They will all say SCH cause it doesn't pull as much hate. :p

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Ok, I will bite.

On my PLD, I prefer WHM, why? simply, they can bring me up very quickly and also have a very powerful AoE heal which comes in help during add phases.

On my WAR, I would prefer SCH, simply because they provide me with great mitigation and even though their heals are weaker, I actually get a chance to use my self heals, unlike with WHM where my self heals just go wasted.

After doing end-game, I would say WHM hands down. When Titan hits me for 3.5k, SCH just can't bring me up fast enough for me to feel comfortable. SCH is nice to have as a back-up healer, but WHM seems to be a better choice when you start getting to the hard hitters.

Right now (level 42), skill level being taken out of the equation, I like SCH hands down. Love that shield, love the buffs, love the flexibility they provide. That being said, I've done no 8-mans, no raids, etc. I've not had aggro problems in the slightest on PLD with either class, although if the WHM is crappy, I could see them pulling aggro with overheals, as I see a lot of Cure I > Cure II > Cure I > Cure II etc etc etc even when I am NOT getting stomped.

I would imagine WHM is the superior healer end-game with their bigger potency single target heals.

Whichever one I can get on skype to yell at, sincerely.

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Originally Posted by Kitru

I asked a WHM about that once. He told me that he wanted to get the regen effect on everyone. You know, completely ignorant of the fact that no one had taken any damage nor would they for the duration of said regen effect.

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Its a Resto Druid tactic.

Just tell them to put their Druid away and start playing their White Mage.

I used to be a raid healer on a Resto Druid back in classic and early BC WoW - in the days when healers DID have massive aggro and 'HoTting up the group' with regens would pull down the universe on you... but for the 5 years, that's not been the case.

A big reason WHM's generate so much hate over SCH is increased potency, more overall healing, and most importantly, they do not split hate with a pet, whereas a scholar does. I'm pretty sure that'll get nerfed though. xD

I like them both especially in 8 man you've got the mitigation from SCH with the burst healing from WHM. The only time I have trouble with WHM threat is when they overheal when there are adds. I'll probably be at 90% HP and I'll get spam healed which gives a bit of trouble holding threat.

But that's the player, not the job.

Lol, looks like this is the same argument of as the PAL vs WAR that us healers are having :)

If you have a good player both are excellent choices, and a baddie is a baddie regardless. Having healed as both I agree with someone above who said that Scholars synergise well with warriors.

I'm sorry so many of you have experienced WHM that don't know about overhealing = lotsa threat. I put that in big bold red letters in my WHM guide, hopefully more pick up on that soon.

One note for tanks, give WHM a chance to throw stoneskin on you before you pull, it lets us have a breather before we start healing so we don't have to heal right away and pull threat, or if you see us castin git don't pull till after cause the buff will pull threat to us if it goes off after you've engaged the mobs.

Can only speak for warrior not paladins bit idc what healer I have hate wise neither should take hate away unless the tank slips up or the healer spams before I can generate any real aggro. But my preference is the skilled player both jobs heal just fine.

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Originally Posted by Feathery

There is a topic in the healer subforums about which tanking class we prefer. So I figured it would be interesting to flip the script. State your job/class and which healer you prefer SCH or WHM preferably a motivation on why sa well :D.

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I posted this on another thread but this works... As a WAR I prefer SCH...

SCH, oh SCH, a healer as beastly as me
The only healer than can match 20% more heals with 20% max HP....

You're little fairy my guiding light
That brings me to my Wrath five Bliss

Your Sacred Soil, and Sheltering Succor,

It just can't get better than this...

In some future patch,
I've met my true match.
It won't be a lala I'll marry,
It won't be a roe, or a male miquo
I think I will marry a fairy.

*bow*

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Originally Posted by Hachiko

For throughput both are fine. But for the love of god WHM pull a lot of threat. I don't know what it is. I feel like half the WHM's I run with decide to cast Medica II on the pull just to troll me. On Titan, I will have threat then bam, after first tumults / stomp WHM pulls w/ 2-3 the aggro of anyone else in the party. It's ridiculous. What is up with that anyway?

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SCHs get two MP pools and two enmity pools, WHM doesn't. That's about the simplest (Though not the most accurate) way I could put it.

Cure I has a threat multiplier of 0.5x
Cure II and II have a threat multiplier slightly higher.
Regen seems to have no threat multiplier. Every tick of healing generates 100% threat.

Theres a very noticeable difference in threat between a WHM that never uses regen vs. a WHM that keeps regen up on the tank throughout the entire fight. It may be their most cost efficient heal, but its also their highest threat producing move... even more than Medica I.

Edit: Oh, I just realized why Medica II generates so much aggro... it applies a regen effect, doesn't it?

It really depends, on certain places like cutter's cry and aurum vale WHM is better. While things like Titan sch is better. But I guess overall I prefer WHM cause they require less preparation time, if you get attacked and your scholar doesn't have it's fairy out yet you're boned might not be so much of an issue with a sch who has swift cast. But one thing I'll say for sch is I like adloquium.

Why are we even discussing this since in every challenging content you will have 2 healer, and SCH+WHM is the best way to go anyway ?

For me i prefer Scholars, i like their shields a lot, and i get a lot of whm that seem to think chaining medica is healing then when they get insane agro and run in big circles they wonder why they die.

Scholars are the win for me.

Both WHM and SCH seem fine to me. Have done all the 4-man dungeons with both. Have not done a lot of HM primals or coil to comment in those situations.

WHM does often have the higher agro. The worst ones I've seen were tough but not impossible to hold agro off of. (And by worst I'm thinking of some lvl 50 ones -- the really truly bad players were weeded out before).

I'm playing a little 24 CNJ myself in Halatali and Toto-Rak the last couple days, so starting to see for myself the healer view of that as well. It's interesting.

The healer that keeps me alive is the one that I prefer. I have played with a sch and a whm and both are good as long as the player is competent. WHM does have a slight advantage as they get stoneskin and the trait for it while sch has to grind up a conj to 34 to get it. But as a tank I grinded conj to 34 to get it myself so I don't have much gripes about that.

I always have CNJ at my level ran with mostly Scholars but yeah Healing threat is pretty big in this game I have to be carefull to grab mobs fast before the healer gets them xD

I dont care if its a summoner throwing heals... keep me alive and you have now become "best healer" till the next healer who can keep me alive through a run.

SCH when I'm on PLD since the damage reduction of PLD makes the most out of the shields (I assume). I also prefer healing PLDs on my SCH. WAR and WHM seem to work nicely together.

Also the less threat from SCH lets me keep up with my DPS on trash pulls.

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Originally Posted by chishi

SCH when I'm on PLD since the damage reduction of PLD makes the most out of the shields (I assume). I also prefer healing PLDs on my SCH. WAR and WHM seem to work nicely together.

Also the less threat from SCH lets me keep up with my DPS on trash pulls.

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Nope. The shields we Scholars put out are not in any way effected by the mitigation of your stats. Our shields are calculated completely separately and, for all intents and purposes, "Raw," and before any other factors enter. So, they're the first things to take the hit and recieve no other bonuses to their mitigation.

I will say, though, that it'll feel like it since once the shield's down, whatever its remainder blocked + your natural mitigation is a rather lovely feeling.

As long as you know what you are doing, I'll love any healers. :)

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Originally Posted by Kusumura

Nope. The shields we Scholars put out are not in any way effected by the mitigation of your stats. Our shields are calculated completely separately and, for all intents and purposes, "Raw," and before any other factors enter. So, they're the first things to take the hit and recieve no other bonuses to their mitigation.

I will say, though, that it'll feel like it since once the shield's down, whatever its remainder blocked + your natural mitigation is a rather lovely feeling.

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If its before mitigation, then Adloquiem and Stoneskin are terrible.

Example:
Mob X deals 2k damage.
Tank Y mitigates 60% and takes 800 damage from Mob X.

Before mitigation:
Scholar Z's adloquiem absorbs 600 damage.
Tank Y takes 560 damage from Mob X.

Post mitigation:
Scholar Z's adloquiem absorbs 600 damage.
Tank Y takes 200 damage from Mob X.

I am 99% sure that these skills are post mitigation. The damage absorption is post block/parry, too. I've seen enough attacks that would normally break through adloquiem, get reduced to 0 because of parry.

As a warrior I have to say I really love sch healers so far. They don't pull much threat, their shield is really nice, and their pet has saved my life on more than one occasion when the player wasn't paying attention. Mind you these are just my opinions, I'm not saying anything about the math or this or that, I just find I feel much more secure with scholar healers.

I like.. good healers. A Healer that is aware of hate-managment and his possibilities of healing is always good, no matter which job.

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Originally Posted by Shyluv

They will all say SCH cause it doesn't pull as much hate. :p

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no only paladins will say SCH for they got shit agro. a warrior on the other hand dont care we dont even care if the dps AoE or ST one mob each we can maintain agro on everything we just take so much damage that we are no better then another DPS class ...

im a warrior, i prefer sch because they have awesome aoe cooldown and lustrate
i hate whm because a lot of them are spaming medica even when everyone hp is still full...

Do you have a source for this?

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Originally Posted by Kusumura

Nope. The shields we Scholars put out are not in any way effected by the mitigation of your stats. Our shields are calculated completely separately and, for all intents and purposes, "Raw," and before any other factors enter. So, they're the first things to take the hit and recieve no other bonuses to their mitigation.

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I think your info is false.

The shields are, essentially, extra hit points. The shields will be affected by whatever defense/damage mitigation values your character has. Therefore, the shields (both SCH shields via heals and WHM Stoneskin) will get more bang-for-the-buck on a high-defense character versus a low-defense character.

Yes, the shields are the first thing to be subtracted when taking damage; they are just a "buffer" of additional hit points on top of your current hit points. But once the shield is applied, they will be reduced based on your mitigation stats. I have not observed these to be "unmitigated" hit points.

I cannot say for certain, but it feels like the shields I cast serve as bonus health, which get damaged based on the mitigation of the person shielded. They hold up better on tanks than they do on non-tanks, though whether or not this is because of blocking, evading, and parrying I cannot say. Since I'm not a tank, I really have no business being here but was curious. As a Scholar I don't really have a preference on who I enjoy healing the most. I will say Warriors make me feel like a god when I cast Lustrate, whereas Paladins make Succor seem more appealing.

I wanted to level WHM and PLD respectively, but these threat issues people are speaking of concern me deeply. It sounds like paladin tanks have a rough time building hate, and white mages have a difficult time not getting punched in the face.