Always HQ?

Hey guys. I'm currently leveling 3 of my DoH at the same time (WVR, CRP, LTW) and have been having a great time doing so, but I'm fairly short on funds (only 100k). I'd like to maximize my EXP, so I did my research and I've been doing those 3 turn-in leves about 5 levels lower than my own (Lv20, as all 3 are Lv25). However, I seem to have a problem with HQ crafting. I've been told it's possible to always get HQ out of non-HQ mats, provided my gear is up-to-date and my crafting sequence is good. I'm currently wearing Lv20 gear, which I will be updating to Lv25 gear (non-HQ). My sequence for 40 durability items is as follows:

Steady Hand
Waste Not
2x Hasty Touch
2x Standard Touch
Steady Hand
Waste Not
Standard Touch
Hasty Touch
2x Basic Synthesis

I seem to only get between 19%-28% with this, and maybe 46% on a good round of touches. I have another sequence that uses Inner Quiet and Master's Mend instead of Waste Not, but that nets me slightly lower (about 17%-22%).

Any tips on making this better, or is that just how it works?

Well I'm not a pro but I'm lvl 30ish or so. Are you paying attention to the condition state? Meaning good normal poor excellent ect....

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Originally Posted by xcaptainmorganx

Well I'm not a pro but I'm lvl 30ish or so. Are you paying attention to the condition state? Meaning good normal poor excellent ect....

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No... lol. I have a macro for it. I'm not sure how to utilize the conditions. I know I probably want to use a Touch on Good or Excellent, but what do I do until then?

Try using Inner quite, that gives a bonus to control. Rumination removes that effect, but gives back CP X the amount of touches that worked. Manipulation gives you back 10 durability for the next 3 steps. Combined with waste not you gain 15 durability for 88 CP.
Try working that in between.

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Originally Posted by Zeronic

Try using Inner quite, that gives a bonus to control. Rumination removes that effect, but gives back CP X the amount of touches that worked. Manipulation gives you back 10 durability for the next 3 steps. Combined with waste not you gain 15 durability for 88 CP.
Try working that in between.

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Yeah, I'll work in Inner Quiet and Rumination.

Also, is there any way to predict an item's condition? It seems fairly random, and I usually get Normal and Good, but rarely Excellent.

I have no problems with HQ crafting out of NQ and i dunno why ppl even use Manipulation. 80 Durability is far enough and 40 Durability is also enough to get 100 % with 3 steps and the last one for 100 % progress. I never ever use anythings that restores my durability.

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Originally Posted by Capita

My sequence for 40 durability items is as follows:

Steady Hand
Waste Not
2x Hasty Touch
2x Standard Touch
Steady Hand
Waste Not
Standard Touch
Hasty Touch
2x Basic Synthesis

I seem to only get between 19%-28% with this, and maybe 46% on a good round of touches. I have another sequence that uses Inner Quiet and Master's Mend instead of Waste Not, but that nets me slightly lower (about 17%-22%).

Any tips on making this better, or is that just how it works?

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If you are going to use Hasty touch you will want to grab Tricks of the Trade (15 Alch) and Steady Hands II (37 Cooking) otherwise you are better off with a Great Strides build where you try the make most of the durability and skip turns until you can land a touch on greater conditions.

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Originally Posted by Jojoroku

If you are going to use Hasty touch you will want to grab Tricks of the Trade (15 Alch) and Steady Hands II (37 Cooking) otherwise you are better off with a Great Strides build where you try the make most of the durability and skip turns until you can land a touch on greater conditions.

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Great Strides hadn't even crossed my mind. Great tip. Seems a lot more efficient than spamming Touches.

I have 5 crafters, all of them at the same lvl, near to 30 lvl.

I crafted a lot of HQ items, my formula is

1) all my ingredients are HQ (whenever is possible)

2) My sequence for 40/40

Inner Quiet (very important)
Tricks Of The Trade (if I can)
Great Strides
Steady Hand
Standard Touch -> 100% chance, 250% eff +HQ
Great Strides
Standard Touch -> 100% chance, 250% eff +HQ
Great Strides
Standard Touch -> 100% chance, 250% eff +HQ
Steady Hand + Basic Synthesis or Careful Synthesis

I made all my gear, everything HQ with materias

If I try to make a difficult item I use Observe or Basic Synthesis (with 60/70 items) in order to obtain Good or Excellent condition after Great Strides.

3) Depending on what I want to do, I have HQ Food to improve CP, Control or Crafting.


Great Strides is better than manipulation or Master's Mend because grants you free extra touches ( 6 touchs in 30 durability)

The lv.21 Culinarian ability Great Strides is the key. At 32CP it doubles the amount of quality gained from Standard Touch, also 32CP.

This might seem a net of zero, but if you ensure the Standard Touch goes off on Good or Excellent condition, it produces much larger results as it effectively doubles the double.

Great Strides applies on the first successful Touch action after activation and lasts three steps. Therefore, you can use other non-touch abilities to coax out the Good condition you require.

My rotation is:

Great Strides ->
if red/multi, Standard Touch / if white, Steady Hand
if Standard Touch has been used, Great Strides again
else if red/multi, Standard Touch / if white Waste Not or Standard Synthesis, depending on if a Standard Synthesis will complete your synth or not (if Steady Hand has worn, I tend to use Careful Synthesis, as using this instead would only rarely mean an extra se is required - you can do the maths depending on the synth you're doing)
if still white and Great Strides is down to the last step, suck it up and do a regular Standard Touch - nothing lost.
if it goes red now use Standard Touch and curse your ill fortune. Then use Great Strides.
Repeat all of the above, mixing in enough Standard/Careful Synthesis moves to bring you to your penultimate Synth, until you're either out of CP (at which point use up durability with Hasty Hand) or out of durability (ie it's at 5 or 10).

By using this method, I get HQ (ie 100% Quality) from normal materials on about 95% of synths that're up to two levels higher than my current level. I can get 100% quality on items up to four levels above my level using HQ mats (usually that I've crafted myself). Can get a decent rate of HQ on anything higher.

Gear is important - use HQ best-in-slot for your level. It should spiritbond quickly, so as soon as it has, convert it, craft/buy the piece again and attach the materia you got.

Food is important - if you find yourself a few CP short of that additional Standard Touch, use +CP appropriate for your current level, else use +Control to increase your Quality gain. I haven't found a time when doing mid-level crafting that I'd take +Craftsmanship over +Control, but feel it out for yourself.

Ugh I should prolly write this up as a proper guide somewhere for mid-level crafting^^ There's a few other bits n' pieces, but I'm sure you'll fathom those out yourself!

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Originally Posted by rkpost

Inner Quiet (very important)
Tricks Of The Trade (if I can)
Great Strides
Steady Hand
Standard Touch -> 100% chance, 250% eff +HQ
Great Strides
Standard Touch -> 100% chance, 250% eff +HQ
Great Strides
Standard Touch -> 100% chance, 250% eff +HQ
Steady Hand + Basic Synthesis or Careful Synthesis

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This is the rotation I find gives me the best results for HQ. Cannot stress enough lining up Great strides+ standard touch with good or excellent condition.

Thanks so much for all the help, guys and gals.

Is Tricks of the Trade an absolute must, or would Rumination be sufficient?

I use Tricks of the Trade with longer or difficult recipes, when I have to use Manipulation I run out of CP very quickly.

Sometimes when I have few CP I use Tricks of the Trade + Steady Hand + Hasty Touch + Hasty Touch + Hasty Touch.....

If you use Tricks of the Trade, you lose Good condition, and Good Condition + Great Strides + Standard Touch is a very good step :)

Tricks of the Trade is mostly for building up Inner Quiet with Hasty Touch allowing greater durability control. Pretty situational otherwise.

Curious why everyone is choosing to use standard touch instead of basic touch or advanced touch?

If you multiply the efficiency of the skill by the success rate you get the "expected output" of the skill. If you then divide the expected output of the skill by the CP cost you get the "quality efficiency" of the skill. Or the expected quality boost per CP point.

Basic Touch is the most efficient skill by this method.

It seems like standard or advanced touch would be of situational use only when you have a good or excellent orb to craft on to maximize your quality boost.

You're not using Great Strides? Great Strides is the best thing since sex. Great Strides + Standard Touch = two Standard Touches, except you spend 10 Durability and not 20.

My build for 40 Durability that I can complete in one Standard Synth is mostly like this, assuming the CPs hold out:

Inner Quiet
Great Strides
Steady Hand
Standard Touch
(Great Strides + Standard Touch) x 2
Steady Hand
Standard Synth

Condition is *crucial*. Good condition substantially improves your touch and Excellent condition will almost certainly put you over the top for an HQ. If you get a Good or Excellent condition, immediately go to the best Touch you can afford. If you get a Poor condition when you're up to do a Touch, do something else unless Great Strides is about to run out. Steady Hand is good; even it's already up you'll reset the countdown. If CPs are critically short, Observe can be the cheapest way to wait out a Poor condition.

Don't forget equipment--and food! More craftmanship means more Progress on Synths. More Control means more Quality on Touches. And who couldn't use more CPs on a synth? At your level, a good CP food can give you close to 20 more CPs. That can be a critical difference right when you need it.

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Originally Posted by Conradus

You're not using Great Strides? Great Strides is the best thing since sex. Great Strides + Standard Touch = two Standard Touches, except you spend 10 Durability and not 20.

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Aye, I never thought of it like that. I'll be using it a lot from now on. Actually excited to get off work and craft some more. :D

This is the best thread I've seen on the topic of crafting. Thanks guys! Lots of useful tips in here.

My alchemy is level 30 and i was able to feel my away around successfully crafting items much higher level than me but was never able to get the HQ rotation down.

I took notes! Can't wait to go home and make something! XD

I can't say for sure but I know I don't even use basic touch at all. The rotation I use for HQ+ with normal mats is very simple. The only thing is, it does require you to have multiple class leveled to get the skills. After you get 50 in all crafts this gets really easy.


This seems to be long so I'm going to break it up into multiple post.


Here's the skill's I use:

1. Inner Quite (First thing every time, allows you to start the combo with Byregot's Blessing). If your lucky you will get a red crystal right after and you can get your CP back with Tricks of the Trade.

2. Waste not II (Establishing this allows you more chances to build quality). The ticks are longer so I use this before activating Stead Hand II.

3. Steady Hand II (This is a must for Hasty Touch to work reliably).

4. Hasty Touch ( This is what I have replaced all basic touch skills with, it has worked for me in all lv's of crafting from normal to the end game crafts).

*.(Special) If Synthesis durability is in the 233 range use Rapid Synthesis right after Steady Hand II to push up progress (I do this first to insure I never fail a Synthesis in the event of unlucky botches)
5. Careful Synthesis II ( The most OP skill IMO, it's 100% and if you just need to finish it this will get the job done).
6. Tricks of the Trade ( Worthwhile skill to both get back CP and to change the state of the Synthesis).

7. Byregot's Blessing (The heavy hitter in my combo, it's what makes HQing with normal mats possible for me. Most effect when coupled with Great Strides).

Added skills used randomly but not often enough to be considered a must for this method.
Advanced Touch, Manipulation, Rumination.

Explanation: I always start off with Inner Quite so that I can start building the (stacks as I call it) to combo with Byregot's Blessing. After that I use Waste not II, followed by Steady Hand II ( If at any point RED Crystal pops go ahead and get CP back, It's fine if your consuming ticks during this time so don't think of it as a waste of Waste not II or Steady Hand, it's going to pay off at the end). After SHII you have two options depending on the Lv of the Synth, if the item has 200+ durability your going to want to use Rapid Synthesis. This will push your progress up more then any other skill, though it has an 80% success it's a better choice at the start then Careful Synthesis. After one successful now we start building quality with Hasty Touch.

Remember Red crystal at this point is still used for Tricks of the Trade. When you exhaust SHII you will have 2 ticks of Waste Not II left, you now have 2 options again. If the Synth was a 200+ then you can use Careful Synthesis II to push it up further( Careful Synth has a 100% success rate which is why you want to use it after SHII expires) . Remember to watch out for how much it was raised so you can do the math and see if another use will either finish it or bring it within a few points of finishing (Which you want!). If not then simply refresh SHII and keep on pressing with Hasty Touch combo. Now here's the important part, after you refresh WNII you are now in your end phase of your craft, which means you are most likely sitting at 50/80 durability or less. This means red crystal is now for building quality not CP. Your focus is now to watch your ticks on WNII and SHII to time the best possible time to use Great Strides + Byregot's Blessing.

To do this I always use this rule, at 2 ticks left in SH2 I have to decide if I'll have enough CP to activate both Great Strides and Byregot's Blessing, if I do I'll use it, unless I get lucky and rainbow crystal comes out in which case I can max it by simply using Byregot's Blessing while SHII is active. If you don't have enough for both then your focus is simply building quality with Hasty Touch until you have 1 tick left in SHII and use Byregot's Blessing. Either way by this point you should have pushed your quality into the 70+% even if you had several botched rolls with HT. When your durability hits 5-10 depending on how long you had WNII active you should use Careful Synthesis one last time to finish out the craft and your done. Remember that finishing with 0 durability is still a win for you so long as the last action maxed out progress, and for the most part that's about it.

This method does require several other cross class skills but after making the end game items, this has proven to be the most effective for me. Hope it helps!


Solaire Belmont

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Originally Posted by suzaku333

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Thanks for all the tips, Solaire!

ProTip so you can type more than 1000 characters and don't use up all your posting allowances:

1. Type up everything you have to write in Notepad.
2. Post a short reply to the thread you're replying to.
3. Select "Edit" after you've posted.
4. Copy/paste everything you typed up in Notepad into the forum textbox.
5. Hit save.

Thanks! I'm new to posting so I figured someone would help me out :)

I don't think it's possible to "always" HQ an item with NQ mats, unless the item is considerably lower than yours.

I can HQ somewhat reliably AF gear without HQ mats, but it's still a matter of luck.

Obviously were I to get Ingenuity it could make a difference. (And also better gear, I wear BiS everything, but no materias yet)

So I had a brief chance to try these out. I've been having great success so far. Haven't been able to consistently get 100% quality, but I usually fall between 45-80%, and I've HQ'd 8/10 items so far. I was even able to HQ my next level gear. I'm still working on getting my 40 durability synths up, and the 70+ synths can use a bit of tweaking for more efficiency, but overall my crafting has improved a ton.

Thanks, everyone!

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Originally Posted by suzaku333

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How much control does that get you?

I usually end my crafts at around 800 control, 900+ if I'm lucky with Hasty Touch (a.k.a only 2 failures or so).

For me, Great Strides is also the key skill. I ALWAYS have it up and then use my best Touch action when I get Good, Excellent or when GS is about to expire. Then GS straight back up! Inbetween I improve progress or use Steady Hands or Observe.

I'm confused about the crystal thing. I assume you mean the little ball that the crafter works with when making something. But what's the meaning of the different colours?

My method is to use Inner Quiet -> Steady Hands -> Waste Not -> Great Strides/Standard Touch (depends on condition). Repeat until durability goes too low or HQ rate is 100%. It might not always HQ but it does so often enough that I use it regularly. And because I keep my equipment in top condition (HQ and materia-loaded), I can HQ stuff that's 4 or 5 levels above my level fairly often. Which lets me do the triple turn-ins of the highest level I can do while still handing in HQ :D

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Originally Posted by Jonno

Curious why everyone is choosing to use standard touch instead of basic touch or advanced touch?

If you multiply the efficiency of the skill by the success rate you get the "expected output" of the skill. If you then divide the expected output of the skill by the CP cost you get the "quality efficiency" of the skill. Or the expected quality boost per CP point.

Basic Touch is the most efficient skill by this method.

It seems like standard or advanced touch would be of situational use only when you have a good or excellent orb to craft on to maximize your quality boost.

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If you have Steady Hand up, the success rate on a Standard Touch is raised from 80% to 100%. The way I craft is to ensure Touch abilities are only used on Good/Excellent and to focus on coaxing out the Good/Excellent orbs. I 100% Quality with NQ mats on every craft that's up to two levels over my level - all my crafts are 22-27 at the moment.

So by your calculations, sure Basic Touch is more efficient, but you can influence your situation to make it irrelevant. The only time I ever use it in is when I only have a few CP left as a preference to Hasty Touch. Different methods may make it useful though.

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Originally Posted by Zareth

I'm confused about the crystal thing. I assume you mean the little ball that the crafter works with when making something. But what's the meaning of the different colours?

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The colours influence Quality gain through Touch actions only.

• White = Normal. Only Touch while on this if absolutely necessary (ie last tick of Great Strides, penultimate Durability and out of CP)
• Red = Good - Successful Touch actions result in 150% Quality. I aim for this, combining with Standard Touch (125%) and Great Strides (200%). An 87 Quality synth turns into a 322 with this method.
• Multicoloured = Excellent - Successful Touch actions result in 300% Quality.
• Violet = Poor - Always and only follows Excellent. A Touch action will result in a much-reduced Quality increase. Use another ability or Synthesis action at this point.

They took Gold out for ARR :(

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Originally Posted by Mjollnir

• White = Normal. Only Touch while on this if absolutely necessary (ie last tick of Great Strides, penultimate Durability and out of CP)
• Red = Good - Successful Touch actions result in 150% Quality. I aim for this, combining with Standard Touch (125%) and Great Strides (200%). An 87 Quality synth turns into a 322 with this method.
• Multicoloured = Excellent - Successful Touch actions result in 300% Quality.
• Violet = Poor - Always and only follows Excellent. A Touch action will result in a much-reduced Quality increase. Use another ability or Synthesis action at this point.

They took Gold out for ARR :(

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And if you don't want to strain your eyes trying to make out the color of the synth crystal, the condition is written right there in the synth status window.

My rotation is:
Inner Quiet
Trick of the Trade when possible
Steady Hand II (refreshing every 5 turns)
Hasty Touch
At 20/40 (Manipulation)
At 20/80 (Master's Mend II)
When I don't have any more cp I cast Rumination, Inner quiet II and Rapid synthesis.

This gives me HQ in every 1 star item.

As a CUL currently in the late 30s, it is very simple to HQ every food item my level or 1-2 levels above. My current rotation:

Step 1- Great Stride
Step 2- If normal, Steady Hand (II if you're high enough level). If good/excellent, Standard Touch (will be Advanced when I get it).
Step 3- Great Stride if Touch was used. Touch if it is good/excellent and was not used last turn.
Step 4- Lather, rinse, repeat.

It's that easy. HQ every time. Adjust to your durability, but Mend is never necessary for CUL.

You guys need to specify if you use HQ mats or not.

HQing something with HQ mats is pretty much guaranteed (and seriously, if you can't there's something wrong with your gear or rotation), with some (the ones that actually give some quality) it's still easy.

It's without HQ items that getting HQ starts being somewhat challenging on on-level recipes, and I think it's better to discuss how to do just that instead of circlejerking one another over our HQ items made with HQ mats prowess.

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Originally Posted by Vyniea

You guys need to specify if you use HQ mats or not.

HQing something with HQ mats is pretty much guaranteed (and seriously, if you can't there's something wrong with your gear or rotation), with some (the ones that actually give some quality) it's still easy.

It's without HQ items that getting HQ starts being somewhat challenging on on-level recipes, and I think it's better to discuss how to do just that instead of circlejerking one another over our HQ items made with HQ mats prowess.

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True. I meant my part of the discussion, at least, to be about working from NQ mats. One word on the subject of HQ mats; if the item uses intermediate materials also made by your craft, these are usually of a lower level than the final product, and you can often start at the beginning of the production chain with NQ mats and make HQ mats for your final product. I had great success with this in making Fire Brands for a triple-triple leve, making 7 of the nine wands HQ at GLD 36, by consistently being able to synth HQ Eyes of Fire out of NQ Fire Rocks. I probably could've made them all HQ if I'd synthed my own Silver Ingots instead of using NQ ones I had in stock.

So I'm not sure what you mean by end control as that's not something I can see. Unless I'm blind :) , I'm pretty much over 320-340 control on all crafts starting, and I've never seen what my number is towards the end, but I'll check tonight when I log on. I made a few more end weapons and they were all HQ with minimal HQ mat's IE an HQ normal item not something like the main spear head for an Obelisk. I find it's extremely easy to HQ items that are higher durability then the lower ones with the method I listed above. I've almost completely stopped trying to HQ the mats needed to make the item and just focus on the HQing the whole as it's much easier. The one thing I have noticed on higher level items is the failure rate of Hasty touch even when Steady Hand II is active. This combo nets you an 80% success rate with Hasty Touch however I have noticed that it fails on higher items a lot more then that. There could be some hidden penalty that drops success rate when crafting higher items so I'll have to do some testing. I've crunched and done the math for my complete cycle of abilities to get an HQ so squeezing in something like Ingenuity II would really need to pay off to be worth while. More testing is in order!

Also The above rotation is designed to get you HQ without HQ mats at all, the one thing that I can say I have is maxed gear at this point with control in the 320+ and craftsmanship in the 350+. However I did not always have this and the above rotation made it possible to craft all my HQ gear and get my stats to the current level. If anyone needs any more detailed info just let me know and I will be more then happy to help!

In the stat panel, you can see your control stat, at the end of a Synth it should be much higher thanks to Inner Quiet.

This is my current record http://i.imgur.com/HEbxWOY.png?1, which isn't that high considering my stats aren't optimal and I'm not using Innovation.

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Originally Posted by suzaku333

Here's the skill's I use:
1. Inner Quite
2. Waste not II
3. Steady Hand II
4. Hasty Touch

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Hi. Your rotation is very similar to mine, but on synths that start with 40 durability I will use Waste Not I rather than II, and usually activate Steady Hand II first. They will then run out at the same time, and at that point with 20 durability left and depending on the progress needed to complete the synth I will either use Careful Touch II to build up some progress (before using Master's Mend to give back durability), or another Hasty Touch if it's one of those recipes that I can complete with a single Careful Touch II.

Oh, I usually also start with Comfort Zone on higher level recipes. It costs 66 CP, but eventually gives back 80 and my higher level synths always go for more than 10 steps... so it does give a decent enough return to make it worth using.

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Originally Posted by suzaku333

at 2 ticks left in SH2 I have to decide if I'll have enough CP to activate both Great Strides and Byregot's Blessing

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Oh, I didn't know Great Strides affected Byregot's Blessing since it's not named a "Touch" action. I will have to try that tonight!

For me, Byregot's Blessing is also the skill that really makes a difference on HQing from NQ materials. I sometimes get myself into trouble on the 40 durability recipes with not having enough CP to activate it since I quite often need to activate Master's Mend twice.

How much CP do you start with usually? I'm at about 330.

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Originally Posted by suzaku333

The one thing I have noticed on higher level items is the failure rate of Hasty touch even when Steady Hand II is active.

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I've noticed this as well. Conversely, I have about a 95% success rate with Hasty Touch on low level recipes. I think that the 50% success rate is a starting point and it is modified by your level against the recipe level.

I have lvl 50 ASM/BSM/CUL, 15 in everything but WVR/GSM.

I highly recommend for macro'in, a simply formula like the following

Inner Peace (IP), GreatStrides (GS): [Variables] {Add Rumination in, where your CP fits it- Be mindful of Step Timed abilities!}

- Steady hands 2 (SH-2), Waste Not (WN), Basic Touch (BT) x4 [Alternate Hasty Hands], GS, Steady Hands 2 (SH-1), Advanced Touch (AT) [Standard Touch (ST) used if low CP pool], Rapid Synth (RS). If using more expensive mats/low CP, swap out SH-2 w/ RS, with SH-1, Standard Synth (SS).

- SH-1, ST, GS, ST, GS, ST, SH1, SS. If applicable use Ingenuity 1/2 to boost the SS/BS to finish.

This will give a good return on HQ, and given cheap mats, will be a good enough return to at least replace shards!