8M to 24M to 8M bouncing will ruin tanking in this game!!!

Unlike some other MMOs out there, this game requires raiders to switch between 8M and 24M when progressing through different tiers of raiding.

This means that when 24M raiding hits in the next patch, all FCs will be looking to fire 4 of their tanks in favor of more DPS, and then fire 4 DPS in favor of 4 more tanks when they go back to 8M raiding.

This is not going to work out well. A lot of tanks will get turned off by this and quit tanking altogether, if you think DF que times are bad now, wait till this happens.

The only way tanks will be able to retain this spot in raiding would be if they level and gear another DPS class for when its time to enter 24M raids. So now the job that requires the most pressure in a group to execute properly, also requires the person to level a second class and keep its gear up to date. This also means, you end up getting less practice as a tank in raids.

Continued....

Solution: Add cleave damage to all 24M bosses that is spreadable. In other words, a 24M boss will do 900 points of damage if only one person is standing in its cleave, or 450 if there are 2 or 300 if there are 3, anymore than 3, the damage stops dividing, so if there are 5 people in its cleave, all 5 take 300 damage. This will require FCs to take 3 tanks for bosses, atleast 1-2 tanks for adds/backup, it will give tanks more variety to choose from, and overall the raid will rely less on one tank, which will take pressure off the tanking job, encourage more people to tank.

If things remain as they are:
We are going to see a decline in tanking. We are going to see drama in FCs where tanks get benched because their DPS job is not geared enough for 24M and overall tanks are going to get frustrated.

FC Raiding =/= Duty Finder Raiding

My understanding is that the meta will stay the same in 24 man. 3 groups of 8, meaning 6 tanks required for 24 man, 6 healers and 12 dps.

I don't see where the problem is. If you got 24 people set up, that's 3x8 full parties. Meaning, when the whole 24 man are not needed, they can... do a 8 man raid in parallel?

you must have a time machine because none of this can be proven true until the 2.1 content is released.

Non-issue. Level a DPS and Healer to compliment your main role. Be flexible. This isn't WoW.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Issac

Non-issue. Level a DPS and Healer to compliment your main role. Be flexible. This isn't WoW.

---

You just made an oxymoron comment. Leveling a DPS or healer to compliment the main role makes it similar to WoW, my point is, this game takes the issue that exists in wow to the next level, tanks in WoW can also OS DPS or heals, its not unique to this game, but the design in this game makes the situation worse, read my original post carefully.

I got to say if you don't have at least 2 contrasting jobs by the time 2.1 comes out and you consider yourself a heavy raider, you're not playing correctly. Now, I'm not saying both job's need to be full DL / relic, but really, you should level a few jobs so your utility increases to best suite the needs of your FC as a whole.

Seems like basic stuff to me.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Sentinel

Unlike some other MMOs out there, this game requires raiders to switch between 8M and 24M when progressing through different tiers of raiding.

---

I THINK I see what he is trying to say: As we play the game, there will be times when the 'latest content' will be focused on Dungeons/etc. that require 24 man parties... then a new patch and the 'latest content' will focus on Dungeons/etc. that require 8 man parties.

So when next patch comes out, all the big end-game FCs will only be doing the new dungeon (which I think is 24-man), and therefore will want people with the right jobs for that content.

What I do not see is why a FC would 'fire' anyone just because the latest content is 24-man or 8-man. Also, given that a FC can have so many people in it, why would an excess of tanks be an issue for a few months? Also, will the FCs ONLY be doing the new content with no regard for any of the earlier content that requires those tanks?

I guess its up to the individual FCs, but if the FC will basically have a 're-org' ever patch, then I worry about the loyalty to that FC. Either way, this world of ours is designed around the fact that we can pick up a lot of different skills/abilities in different disciplines (i.e., we can be a Tank, and a DPS, and a Healer, as we wish). Given the cross-cutting skills and ease of leveling, I think it is reasonable to expect a Tank to also be able to double as a DPS.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Sentinel

You just made an oxymoron comment. Leveling a DPS or healer to compliment the main role makes it similar to WoW, my point is, this game takes the issue that exists in wow to the next level, tanks in WoW can also OS DPS or heals, its not unique to this game, but the design in this game makes the situation worse, read my original post carefully.

---

You cannot have multiple classes for one character in WoW. That alone was my point.

Stop complaining. Have alternative classes ready when not as many tanks are needed for larger groups. Seriously. Shhhh.

Greed/Need exists for a reason. Your FC has the responsibility to ensure you still get geared based on your merits.

The problem with the OP is the assumption of the 24 man makeup, until we get the details we don't know how many tanks/healer/dps we are going to actually need.

Now if you have details on that, please post them. I think everyone would like to know so they can start theorycrafting.

Didn't they say that the Crystal Tower will require the raid to split up into smaller groups in places and complete different objectives simultaneously? If that's the case then there's no problem...

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Issac

You cannot have multiple classes for one character in WoW. That alone was my point.

Stop complaining. Have alternative classes ready when not as many tanks are needed for larger groups. Seriously. Shhhh.

Greed/Need exists for a reason. Your FC has the responsibility to ensure you still get geared based on your merits.

---

You are still restricted to the same lockouts and currency cap, so having multiple classes IS the same as having specs in WoW. I agree with you on the Greed/Need, but that also exists for tanks in WoW with their DPS/healing OS, the problem is also worse in this game (see my original post) as you will continue to go back to 8M and then to 24M during a given tier in this game.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Alberel

Didn't they say that the Crystal Tower will require the raid to split up into smaller groups in places and complete different objectives simultaneously? If that's the case then there's no problem...

---

You got me there, if that is the case, I hope that is true. Would love it if someone can dig up proof on this.

Since we are playing Final Fantasy the real solution would be to level up and equip multiple jobs. You know... like you are supposed to.

You cant level a single class and expect to be viable in every situation. That's not how the game works.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Sentinel

You got me there, if that is the case, I hope that is true. Would love it if someone can dig up proof on this.

---

i doubt it , because then how bosses will work? 3 bosses ? ....how thats different from playing 8 man content?

i think 24 man will require 2 tanks only , 4 heals , and then DPS.

I can see it requiring 6 tanks. Sword Oath or turning off Defiance to DPS? Seems like a no brainer here...

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Sentinel

You got me there, if that is the case, I hope that is true. Would love it if someone can dig up proof on this.

---

Well in 1.0 some dungeons required our 8 man party to split into two 4 man party and acomplish some objectives at the exact same time.

So I think it should be something similar

So, let me see if I've got this straight...

Business As Usual
- Tanks in extreme high demand, low supply
- Tanks are treated as gods, instantly forgiven for all mistakes, tolerated even if trolling
- Tanks get instant queues for any dungeon content they want. If party isn't "good enough" for them, they'll leave and find another.
- "if dps dont liek it suck it up princess!!!!!!1!!! y u no roll a tank go back to wow lololololol"

GAME-RUINING HORROR!!!!
- Maybe slightly fewer tanks needed for certain 24-player raids, in comparison to the status quo
- Your regular hard-core raid group might not need you to tank tonight? "They fired me!! Thanks for forcing me to leave my FC and roll on a new server, Obama!!"
- Wait, no instant DF queue for 24-player raids!? I might have to wait upwards of whole minutes, just to get into a dungeon!?!?!? What is this, the Depression!?!?
- "Leveling a DPS or healer to complement the main role makes it similar to WoW... the design in this game makes the situation worse"

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Ptolemy

FC Raiding =/= Duty Finder Raiding

---

This, 24 mans are intended for duty finder and not very hard, they will be easy and basically free gear with little ot no challenge.