AV (Absolute Virtue) in today's MMO's possible?

Hello,


everyone is bitching at XIV ARR for being to easy etc. I wonder would bosses like AV (Absolute Virtue 3 years undefeated) or PW (Pandamonium Warden) work these days? Or is that so unthinkable to do these days where people want everything done fast and bitch at the slightest bumb in the road.

I think Vrtra was also undefeated for a long time.

Most of the people wanting things like AV in this game never actually wasted days of their life throwing themselves at it @75 cap.

Most of the people complaining this game is too easy haven't set foot in Binding Coil, much less beaten Titan.

Take my words how you will.

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Originally Posted by Ikkenoe

Most of the people wanting things like AV in this game never actually wasted days of their life throwing themselves at it @75 cap.

Most of the people complaining this game is too easy haven't set foot in Binding Coil, much less beaten Titan.

Take my words how you will.

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Oh i agree with you, but think of it. If SE would add a Boss with the next expansion that would be so hard or have such weird mechanics that it won't be defeated for Month or Years. How would the "new" generation of MMO player's react. Since most of the player's who remember the 75cap are in the late 20s or early 30s.

I hated the concept of AV, moreso than I hated pre-nerf C'thun (which was mathematically impossible to beat). Unless you want to have FFXIV make yahoo news after another 19-hour fiasco, we're better off without it.

Yeah, because AV was "hard".

SE:
"Let's make a mind numbing fight where the boss has zillions of HP, one-shot-kills-all abilities and about 2000 bugs. That should keep them morons busy until we decide it's time for a ninja-fix so it can actually be done without exploiting BLM range"

AV hard...

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Originally Posted by Ikkenoe

Most of the people wanting things like AV in this game never actually wasted days of their life throwing themselves at it @75 cap.

Most of the people complaining this game is too easy haven't set foot in Binding Coil, much less beaten Titan.

Take my words how you will.

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Guessing you mean HM Titan? I've beaten the entire game up to Ifrit HM (Haven't tried him yet. Too busy leveling crafters / etc.) I'll admit, Ultima Weapon was pretty easy. Especially with a Succor spamming Scholar and Bard MP Song. (Which basically is like the Hydaelin healspam at certain points.)

I may be understanding this wrong, but 'time' doesn't attest to difficulty.

I'd prefer a 10-15 minute fight that had me on the edge of my seat in concentration, than pressing macros for 6 hours in the hope that the boss might drop dead before undo of boredom. It's not because "I'm a casual bitch", its just not entertaining anymore to fight the same thing for hours on end with virtually no challenge. I'd say I've enjoyed the primal fights in XIV do far the most, the requirement for teamwork and planning is what I was looking for in this game after playong XI.

Don't get me wrong, some of the difficult content in XI was amazing, but it just doesn't fit anymore in terms of the length of time it took.

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Originally Posted by coldreactive

Guessing you mean HM Titan? I've beaten the entire game up to Ifrit HM (Haven't tried him yet. Too busy leveling crafters / etc.) I'll admit, Ultima Weapon was pretty easy. Especially with a Succor spamming Scholar and Bard MP Song. (Which basically is like the Hydaelin healspam at certain points.)

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Just wait till you see, Titan really does test you on your ability to dodge whilst maintaining a normal rotation. It's really the first major road block we encountered besides relearning Garuda.

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Originally Posted by coldreactive

I'll admit, Ultima Weapon was pretty easy.

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and "hard mode" ifrit, titan and garuda weren't? AK wasn't? Cmon... these fights are being pugged for Christ's sake. Personally, I think that's unacceptable. I honestly doubt we will ever receive challenging content in this game. I might be mistaking, but I think it has to do with the pretty large player base of joypad users.

If only. While I think Absolute Virtue may have been a bit cheap given it was systemically unbeatable so far as I know..

I think all MMO's should have legendary challenges. And I mean legendary in the sense that everybody knows about them and dreams of being one of the people to beat them, despite that being rare in the extreme. Maybe even 'once it's been beaten it stays beaten' extreme.

So.. yeah, if only. I really hope it is possible.

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Originally Posted by Furio

and "hard mode" ifrit, titan and garuda weren't?

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If they were all so easy, where is your relic? It seems a bit like you've done Ifrit and assume everything else is more of the same.

(For the record, I do consider getting relic to be a bit too easy, but I'm not sure you're in a position to judge)

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Originally Posted by Furio

I honestly doubt we will ever receive challenging content in this game.

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Oh, okay. Please tell us about your progress in Binding Coil. How do you feel about turns 4 and 5 specifically?

I can't tell if your post is satire or you're just unwittingly underscoring the precise phenomenon I addressed in the second part of my first post.

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Originally Posted by Ikkenoe

If they were all so easy, where is your relic? It seems a bit like you've done Ifrit and assume everything else is more of the same.

(For the record, I do consider getting relic to be a bit too easy, but I'm not sure you're in a position to judge)



Oh, okay. Please tell us about your progress in Binding Coil. How do you feel about turns 4 and 5 specifically?

I can't tell if your post is satire or you're just unwittingly underscoring the precise phenomenon I addressed in the second part of my first post.

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It is a fact that all HM primal encounters are succesfully pugged. It is a fact, that AK is being succesfully pugged. It is a fact that both other 8 man raids are being succesfully pugged.

Pick up groups, should not be able to storm through new HARD MODE content - period.

If the binding coil will be any different than these so called "hard mode" fights, I doubt it will be enough to warrant a subscription.

Now, it might be possible that you think these are hard. I won't doubt that.

If you have any - real hard mode - raiding experience tell me: How would a healer using a joypad fare on Ragnaros Heroic? He wouldn't. Alas, this game needs to be balanced for those players as well. Therefore you can kiss challenging content goodbye.

It is a fact you make baseless claims founded upon assumption. It is a fact you're attempting to play the part of the expert witness regarding content you've never experienced.

But seriously, go beat Titan then play around in Coil, come back and report your findings.

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Originally Posted by Ikkenoe

It is a fact you make baseless claims founded upon assumption. It is a fact you're attempting to play the part of the expert witness regarding content you've never experienced.

But seriously, go beat Titan then play around in Coil, come back and report your findings.

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I guess your notion of hard differs from mine - especially if you needed a coordinated group for Titan, while everyone on the server is pugging it.

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Originally Posted by mekia

everyone is bitching at XIV ARR for being to easy etc.

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Posting a ludicrous over-exaggeration doesn't really lend for a serious discussion now, does it?

My guess is Titan Extreme will crush people's will to live once released.

since op mentioning AV....

Right now in XI scene & Adoulin expansion, there's this Wildkeepers Reive content where non JP will take about 12 hours avg to beat it, this especially happens at Yorcia Weald reive.

Wanna give it a go? lol

As the guy who maintanked one of the worlds' first, if not *the* world's first legit (ie no wall of justice/footprint abuse) Absolute Virtue kill, I can safely say that adding something like AV to this game would be completely retarded.

As much of a rush it was killing him, I don't really want to spend another 5 hours of sac-pulls to keep a mob from disappearing as we figure out how we're going to kill him, along with the 1.5 hour ordeal of actually bringing him from 100-0.

Though I will admit that it was pretty nice to see so much of the server come out to both watch and chip in with COR 2hrs and being nice enough to trade me ninja tools halfway through the fight while we were fighting because we were at it so damn long that I ran out. R.I.P. Fairy Server, you were awesome.

Rather than Absolute Virtue, I'd like something like Final Fantasy XIs Waking the Beast quest... We already got a glimpse of that hell, sorta... And you know, I really can't think of a better purpose for the Harder Mode fights they're putting in 2.1... +1 weapons I guess? Meh... Beat the Harder Mode versions, then face up against all three at once for some freakish chimera of all their weapons...

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Originally Posted by Furio

It is a fact that all HM primal encounters are succesfully pugged. It is a fact, that AK is being succesfully pugged. It is a fact that both other 8 man raids are being succesfully pugged.

Pick up groups, should not be able to storm through new HARD MODE content - period.

If the binding coil will be any different than these so called "hard mode" fights, I doubt it will be enough to warrant a subscription.

Now, it might be possible that you think these are hard. I won't doubt that.

If you have any - real hard mode - raiding experience tell me: How would a healer using a joypad fare on Ragnaros Heroic? He wouldn't. Alas, this game needs to be balanced for those players as well. Therefore you can kiss challenging content goodbye.

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You failed to answer his questions about your own progress in the game I notice. Talking from first-hand experience are you about how easy it is?

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Originally Posted by Kraggy

Posting a ludicrous over-exaggeration doesn't really lend for a serious discussion now, does it?

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So does your pointless post thanks for contributing nothing but a fart :).

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Originally Posted by BobbinT

since op mentioning AV....

Right now in XI scene & Adoulin expansion, there's this Wildkeepers Reive content where non JP will take about 12 hours avg to beat it, this especially happens at Yorcia Weald reive.

Wanna give it a go? lol

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This reive is a pain in the ass to do. And 12h's xD, the longest i was in Yorcia was 5hs, but only because there were not enough SMN/CORs to deal with the "shield". I like the idea as a little upgrade with the KI you get when you defeat all of them.

No i rather not see unbeatable bosses and when someone found a way to win they patch it out

Everyone here knows the answer to the OP question -- folks nowadays would rage at a flight like AV. Not that AV is a good example of what challenging content should be. I think FFXIV started off with a good spread of difficulty. As long as they keep it that way there should be something that everyone can do, end-game wise.

AV was only not beaten because of the time it took to retry it.

Imagine the final coil of Baha which no one beat yet (at least to my knowledge) but every time you failed you had to wait 3-4days to attempt it again, and had to spend at least 20hrs farming spawn items inbetween.

There is content just as hard as AV in this game now, but there is no requirements for retrying it. If you could spam AV as much as you wanted in XI, it would of been beaten by numerous linkshells in a few weeks.