What's up with this?
The DPS and AoE requirement on Turn 4 is so high that we're forced to stack certain classes in order to down it. A regular, well balanced group falls just short of it.
The primary problem is that due to the high amount of AoE required, everyone but BLM runs out of MP/TP.
This is fixed either by running two BRD and having them alternate MP/TP song, or running two BLM, because they don't run out of MP.
If you run a more balanced group that isn't stacking two BRD or BLM, there just isn't enough TP/MP to keep up.
Additionally, there is a problem with WAR's (lack of) mitigation that makes them vulnerable to being RNG one shot as Dreadnaught tanks.
I'd be interested in how many, if any, FCs downed this with well balanced groups.
Turn 4 is a little out of tune
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09-15-2013, 12:14 PMYennTurn 4 is a little out of tune
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09-15-2013, 12:40 PMNemhy
I think a lot of Coil's issue is the lack of needed gear. I mean wasn't it designed for people with full CT gear?...when we don't even have CT yet. :P
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09-15-2013, 02:03 PMhamsteak
i would assume that's because going into coil of bahamut atm skips an entire tier of gear (crystal tower)
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09-15-2013, 02:08 PMEliseus
2brds 1mnk 2plds 1blm 1whm 1sch. Seems pretty balanced to me, 6 of the 9 jobs and considering you can only have 8. Also, one of our bards can do it smn but wanted to bard instead. I also see many people do it on drg which makes more sense than the set up we did for piercing debuff. The only comment I agree on of yours is warrior needs to be looked at, and even then, people have done it with one.
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09-15-2013, 03:02 PMYenn2 BRD is abusing a blatantly overpowered mechanic.Quote:
Originally Posted by Eliseus
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09-15-2013, 03:07 PMXilrasisWe have done it with 3 different comps across 2 separate raid groups. Pretty sure comp isn't nearly as important as you are making it out to be. Our most recent comp was PLD/WAR, WHM/SCH, BRD/MNK/BLM/SMN. We've also done with two BLM or 2 BRD, done it with DRG. If you are MISSING a class or two, yes, you may struggle. You should hardly need to STACK a class, though.Quote:
Originally Posted by Yenn
At least one PLD/BRD/BLM are near essential, but more than one is hardly necessary and a balanced group will only leave one class out. -
09-15-2013, 04:20 PMZdenka
Turn 4 basically requires, or implies you to believe:
-2 meele dps
-2 caster dps
-2 healer
-2 tank
I am pretty sure you could do it 2mnk/2blm or 2brd/2smn or 1drg/1smn/1mnk/1blm or whatever you want, as long as that is fulfilled. Therefor the Turn is pretty much tuned how its intended (you can't use 4 meele or 4 casters etc like you can on turns1-3)
Gear will make it a lot easier, also different kill orders can optimize the types and strengths of your players and job choice. -
09-15-2013, 04:23 PMYennThe primary problem is that the AoE requirement is a massive TP/MP sink. It's hard to reach the second Dreadnaught with enough TP/MP to keep up DPS.Quote:
Originally Posted by Zdenka
I just checked out 9 Turn 4 kills. 7/9 contained 2 BRD, and the remaining 2/9 contained 2 BLM.
Everyone and their dog is running it like this. -
09-15-2013, 04:38 PMZdenkaI'll just rebold this also different kill orders can optimize the types and strengths of your players and job choice. Every kill composition you find doesn't meant that's all that's beating it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Yenn
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09-15-2013, 04:48 PMYennKill order has absolutely nothing to do with this problem.Quote:
Originally Posted by Zdenka
No change in strategy can remove the requirement of AoEing down the first and fourth wave. -
09-15-2013, 04:55 PMBrumble
Where do people keep coming up with this idea that Crystal Tower is supposed to be easier than Coil of Bahamut? It makes no sense that a future 24 man raid would be easier than a current 8 man one.
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09-15-2013, 05:22 PMZdenkaSorry, that's not true.Quote:
Originally Posted by Yenn
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09-15-2013, 05:30 PMEliseusWell that is completely not true, we didn't AoE anything in fourth wave. So yes, a change in strategy can change everything.Quote:
Originally Posted by Yenn
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09-15-2013, 05:43 PMPellegri
If CT truly is a tier below coil(meaning CT would be ilvl 80) then why is it that groups are fully capable of getting bosses down in coil currently when the majority go in with nothing more than darklight? You get ilvl 90 gear in coil and through myth tomes if that's not enough to clear coil then how is ilvl 80 CT gear going to change anything?
Yes square has said before CT is a tier below coil.....but the fact that a good amount of coil can even be cleared without said gear leads me to believe they need to go back to the drawing board on CT if they want it to be harder and yet only drop ilvl 80. If they haven't already they honestly have no other choice than to make CT ilvl 100 because who is going to run CT out of the people currently doing coil? Story is good and all but the core raiding feature in mmos is the gear grind, no one will want to run CT if they are able to get higher ilvl gear from a lesser raid that doesn't even require CT gear to begin with. -
09-15-2013, 07:30 PMAethyrSanc
crystal tower drops lvl 80 gear..... it fills that HUGE gap from ilvl 70 to ilvl 90
people are able to do this content in BCoil now because they're pushing their gear and skill to the absolute limit and skipping the need to even set foot in the next stage in content
as for the top 1%, we will more than likely be avg ilvl 85+ with BCoil cleared before 2.1 even launches