Hate Issues

Hi, Wow first forum post on the new forums :x

anyways down to business - I play a Conjurer the majority of the time when level linking and simply party grinding with my LS-mates. Now i've been having a slight issue, no matter when i cast, or how little, i always IMMEDIATELY seem to generate enough hate for our mob to start killing me, usually en masse and much too quickly for my cure 2 to go off before i croak...

Now at first i thought it was maybe because my tank would spawn the mob or start attacking on the tail end of me casting my last buff spell... so i started buffing at the aether crystal while the leve is being chosen - sadly this really didn't help at all.

SO! if anyone else is having better luck, or im doing things completely wrong, suggestions would be loved.

Skills i have set = Fastcast / Firm Conviction / Out of Sight / Muscle Memory / Mind Over Matter / Asceticism

; ; don't get me wrong, i don't mind dying - its a part of the game, but without reraise implemented yet i feel like the worst healer because i cant just pop up and heal again if my party needs it.

for the most part dmg and curing don't generate much hate (if any at all...or it is so tiny it isn't noticeable), however any buff you use will.

try buffing before the mob is engaged or wait a few seconds after to buff (self buffs and/or party buffs).

Yes, never buff early in a fight (or at all if you can help it). For some reason any buffing, even when melee use their self buffs, is like insulting that monster's mother... bad. If it's a long fight you certainly can once the tank has established solid hate and assuming the monster didn't have some sort of hate reset just happen.

I also find who ever initiates the Leve always has hate as soon as the mobs spawn. Try letting the tank initiate the leve when linking

never buff at the start of a fight, and if you do, expect to be rushed by the enemy.
i spam heals when i need to and i have never taken hate from using spells like Cure II.
also, do you have a tank, who focuses on keeping hate?
that would help keep them off of you.

All are correct here. Whoever initiates the leve is always the target whenever the mob has a choice. Meaning if you have to chase a mob and get ambushed, you're the target. If you pop a node, you're the target. If you're defending a point and the next wave comes, you're the target.

Also, straight damage and straight curing gives you nominal hate. I can heal constantly all fight and not gain any hate. However buffs such as Chainspell and Profundity will generate massive amounts of enmity. Same with casted buffs like Protect and Shell, especially AOE. Always use these buffs in hand.

I also find skills like Out of Sight and Soughspeak don't seem to make too large of a difference, although they do not hurt to have.

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Originally Posted by Grog

All are correct here. Whoever initiates the leve is always the target whenever the mob has a choice. Meaning if you have to chase a mob and get ambushed, you're the target. If you pop a node, you're the target. If you're defending a point and the next wave comes, you're the target.

Also, straight damage and straight curing gives you nominal hate. I can heal constantly all fight and not gain any hate. However buffs such as Chainspell and Profundity will generate massive amounts of enmity. Same with casted buffs like Protect and Shell, especially AOE. Always use these buffs in hand.

I also find skills like Out of Sight and Soughspeak don't seem to make too large of a difference, although they do not hurt to have.

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if you started the leve and someone else popped a node 9/10 the popped mob will aggro whoever started the leve. your best bet is to self-buff before you engage.

yea out of sight makes sense in theory but better off with other things if you are low on trait points.

soughspeak is useless...waste of action points.

Comes down to timing, I buff during fight(excluding NM) right at beginning, you got a skill that will help recuce hate if its a problem. Rank 26 archer skill Chameleon. (may of spelled wrong) If you still have hate issues with the skills you listed it is not your fault. Your tanks are lacking skills. First off do your tanks provoke/war drum pull? If so they are generating hate on nothing. Any pull in game that is a taunt will be ineffective, you must first claim a mob for you to generate hate. Now if they already got this down they just are bad tanks(Not trying to be mean to your friends) cause you got all the traits you need and if you still pull hate constantly then its their own fault. Now buff wise, ya just got to time them, I know the feeling, party never waits for buffs and is annoying as heck so most the time you got to use it during a fight. Just time them right and that will solve your hate issues. Or you can do what some Con/Thm do and go VIT build for now(174) and have 1.4-1.7k hp with right gear. Those are just a few solutions.

I meant to say that if you start the leve, you are always the target of a spawn or a popped node. Regardless of who who pops.

Don't use buffs at the start of the fight, that will sure make everything and their friends target you, lol. Stuff such as Profoundity or any other self buffs are also bad idea.

If you start a leve, you will - ALWAYS - be targetted by mobs that pop (necrologos, defense type leves, etc), like it has already been pointed out.

Hitting mobs with Elemental Shroud and having the Out of Sight trait also are little things that can help reducing hate.

Thanks for the suggestions, i'll look into getting the ranger skill and either buff only before a mob is popped (or neared) or way after hate is established... if they cant wait a few seconds, they can go without, because in the long run, my butt alive means theirs alive longer as well ^o^

A 35 healer in a party of 40s sticks out like a sore thumb on the hate profile as well. There's some sort of weak link formula in effect. Its not the r50 archer that the mob turns to and eats. It's the r43.

that actually might explain it a bit then ^ the group i usually leve with is higher then me by a few ranks.

Tried out most of the suggestions during two sets of leves tonight and had a much better effect, only died twice in about 2.5 hours.

This is all stuff I think the development team should be aware of. Therefore I have tagged this thread so it will show up on their radar.

if buffing during a battle is a must then cast sough speak, sometimes during battles i do this cuz i know someone is going to rush in. when i use sough speak i rarely get hate while buffing

I think the Hate system needs some work too, I love the tank role played tank in almost every ptp MMORPG and never had trouble til FFXIV. single target is fine, no problems just need a few secs alone with the mob at the start but then its ok. but leves often give you 2-3 mobs at a time, not much in the game for aoe hate and/or CC, either give some CC and take 1 at a time, or give an AoE effecting Provoke or something.

What I found to be useful, was to get my archer to r20, do the class quest, then get 8k guild marks and buy the trait "Out of Sight". This reduces enimity by 10.

On a sidenote, Other traits a CNJ would benefit from:
THM Firm Conviction - increases defence while casting.
PUG Prime Conditioning - Increases heals received by 10 %
LNC Fleet of Foot - Increases movement speed by 20 % while in active mode (Awesome when you need to move to land that one cure in a hurry)

They all require you to do the rank 20 class quest to be able to buy for 8.000 guild marks.

I've been doing the NMs in parties of 2 and 3 R50's, and the hate balance there seems to be better than at R50 NMs. If I overnuke, I'll rip hate on a R30 NM pretty easily. Anywhere else I can pretty much chain heal and chain nuke with no repercussion, and I don't have the archer traits and abilities yet.

So long as I don't spam profundity blood rite and elemental (or is it dark?) seal. Enhancements are by far the number one reason a mage gets hit, even more common than tanks dying.

Get a good tank and u can cure and buff all day

As glad i have provoke, taunt, wardrum, warmongerer, shieldbash and often cast protect and shell on myself to generate more hate as well as a few cures.

Additionally

Firm conviction, Self preservation, Fast cast and Intimidation all help the tank keep hate and keep alive.

Hate reduction happens when the tank takes lots of damage he/she should constantly aim to build up hate and keep topping it up.

I know what you mean.. But it doesn't matter if it is initial, or 6-10 seconds after engagement, if I cast profundity I seem to become the focal point of 'holy sh-- take him down'

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Originally Posted by MagicofGaia

I know what you mean.. But it doesn't matter if it is initial, or 6-10 seconds after engagement, if I cast profundity I seem to become the focal point of 'holy sh-- take him down'

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So after you did this 1x, I hope you only did it by accident after that. ^^

Use Profundity before you engage or face consequences. First lesson as a Conjurer in a group setting.

2nd is probably "Holy crap! Protect, too? Does it have a hidden "Benediction" that I'm unaware of?!"

Profundity pull too much hate

just use it then the monster will run across the battlefield to kick your butt no matter how far or someone hitting it with weapon

it doesn't make sense, how could a wild animal hate a mage who buffing more than a warrior who stabbing him with a sword?

Just got chameleon, have not had good chance to test out of sight. I still need collusion and that other ability then hate diminishing is maxed.

I dont use profundity any more. Just ruins my timers for the damage rotation and creates too much trouble. Chameleon is very good to use about 5 minutes into a fight BEFORE you get hit, when you know you're moving up the enmity list. I like it a lot.