Mind vs Piety, what are your thoughts

Hey guys as the post says, mind vs piety. what did you pick?

im 30 in mind atm, it's not bad but what are the values for each?

how much healing does 1 mind give, is there a cap etc, same for piety.

side note: does shroud of saints regen more if you have more MP?

I'm interested in this as well. I currently have 25 mind and 5 piety. I seem to do well with managing my mana and have been considering reallocating the 5 points into mind.

You can easily get PIE from food, so I think it'd be better to put 30 into MND.

30 PIE is like 250 MP. MND is superior in essentially every way.

Didn't get piety at all, went for 20 mind and 10 vit instead since MP isn't a huge problem anyway.
You'll have Saint of Shroud + later on in dungeons where MP could get problematic you'll most likely have a Bard in your party anyway who can use mage ballad or w/e the song is called.

I was told once way back when I first started healing that piety is a crutch used by players who can't manage their mana consumption. While I think that's a bit harsh, it is true that your mana will go a long long way when managed properly. I would much prefer to have fewer, more powerful heals than to have more, weaker ones.

When I first looked at ACN I felt that it might be one of the few classes that makes use of increasing Piety for the increased mana gain from aetherflow but it turns out their mana costs arn't even all that high and if you don't spam adloquium you hardly ever drop below 50%.

i did the mistake of using 10 points in pie thinking ti will be a really worth aomunt of mp that i will gain, but last time i spend one pint it gave me 6 mp and now im still grinding company seals for that respec... on a side note perhaps there are some secret values that justify the pie investment but for mp is worthless (perhaps it improves the mp recovered by each tick of passive mp healing or shroud etc...)

I noticed I didn't have much more mana than I thought and tested how much MP I gained when I next put a point into Piety: 7 MP. Yes, 7. I'll be restatting into MND as soon as I earn the seals for it, it's a terrible "bonus".

VIT30. A dead healer give 0 healing.

ans to shroud: nope.

It kind of depends on your playstyle, too. Some players like to spam heal on everyone and keep the party topped off constantly. MP usage aside, overhealing can create enmity out the ass if you're too aggressive with healing and/or you have TOO MUCH Mind, giving too much with the bursts. With lots of Mind, you have to wait for your target to dwindle down a little, then time it to not generate too much threat (while watching the rest of the party).

Spamming Cure 1 without generating too much enmity can be comforting for the party, and you may even have enough MP to throw out some DoTs, too. Just as a devil's advocate, Mind is also super easy to come by in gear compared to Piety. For solo healers, running out of MP means the end of the battle, one way or another. I also don't know if Piety affects MP regeneration in or out of battle.

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Originally Posted by Aedra

VIT30. A dead healer give 0 healing.

ans to shroud: nope.

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How much does your cure 1 heal for (without divine seal)?
And for the record, that 20 extra vit you got (since I got 10) gave you roughly 150 more HP.

Reason to why I'm asking is because I'm curious whether or not it's worth going all out on the vit.

Also, what do you mean by "and to shroud: nope."..
If you were talking to me there, then wait until you get to the binding coil of bahamut, that's when you'll be truly thankful that you got shroud.

30 vit at lvl 50 is 450 hp... mind at lvl 50 have a return of around 15/20 hp healed per point...

those 450 hp will not save u if u get aggro... will not save from most boss mechanic (lot of boss power attacks deal %of health dmg with a minimum limit that you will be over if equipped for that content... no... running HM titan on fresh lvl 50 gear is not the proper equip -_-')... on the other hand 30 mind will speed up your refull of the tank... and bust by a sensible amount your aoe healing to the point that 2 aoe will almost do the job of 3...

about piety... (that was the main topic) as a WHM u can feel the need for extra mana while exping... from lvl 30 to 38 the mana shortage could be hard... but it will teach u how to use your skill wisely... at 38 with shroud things get easier... with improved shroud running OOM become rare... and once u start acquiring lvl 70 item your piety will be naturally bosted to a point where most dungeon boss will not see your bar under 75% and only intensive unavoidable aoe fight will force u under 50%... actually I only ask for mana song from bard while farming castrum (for spiritbond or tombstone)... but only because I go spamming holy rather than healing ^^'

for sch... enven less of a problem... 10% mana retunr on 1min cd... and unless the tank chose to take too much avoidable aoe that force u to use the 20% heal u can save your eather for mana return attack (switch to cleric stance befor using it will give u back quite some mana...) just save one charge for emergency or for the aoe dmg debuff... and u will be safe on mana and ready for the fight...

I'm in the Vit group, as sch i dont need extra mana, as even if i use all my pool i get it back full in no time, mind.... i heal you for 18-30 extra hp with a 400 potency spell after spending the whole 30 points on it, so...

30VIT is never meant to save u from aggro anyway, but it might save you from some boss skill that would otherwise one shot you.

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on the other hand 30 mind will speed up your refull of the tank

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Nope. If you actually test by actual number. Healing output from 30MND will only be around 50hp only. On a ... PLD 5.6k HP (even worse on War with 6.3k+ HP) ? If you call this help refill your tank, then whatever.

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Also, what do you mean by "and to shroud: nope."..

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I answer the OP about refresh. From testing roughly, regardless of how high your PIE, Shroud will give out around 1.2k MP (my guess is 80 (potency) x 15s duration)
The real use of shroud is when you know the fight, when to pop shroud for MP or when to pop shroud for reduce enmity.

And back to the topic, from my testing with and without accessories equipped and heal on myself (since accessories don't have determination so healing in won't be different if take out)

Condition 1: with accessories equipped
Healing Magic Potency (MND): 369
Determination: 226
Cure Stats (30 times):
- Max: 727
- Min: 687
- Avg: 707

Condition 2: without accessories equipped
Healing Magic Potency (MND): 330
Determination: 226
Cure Stats (30 times):
- Max: 661
- Min: 622
- Avg: 641

Difference between 2 conditions
Healing Magic Potency (MND): 39
Determination: 0
Cure Stats (30 times):
- Max: 66
- Min: 65
- Avg: 66

Average difference in healing output per MND: 1.69

I can't test any further as of now since unequip other slow would result in Determination difference. I'll need my friend for my testing.

With ifrit weapon or relic 400 - > 430 MND is a 7% healing increase.

Source: http://valk.dancing-mad.com/?page_id=279

Thx for the link but, if you want to link source, try linking the actual one where there are data shown not some finished calculator with unknown method.

Edit update: found the link.

The theory craft is interesting, what i haven't thought on my mind is that Magic Damage from weapon will result in difference in healing or not. But just FYI, my info above is also from Ifrit weapon, and that is 1.69 avg heal per mind from testing. (will try collecting more samples for more accurate data) Still it is very hard to test due to change weapon will differ in MND & Deter which I don't have enough energy to find near same value. And the data tested if from THM, not WHM or SCH which also have healing 30% boost calculated somewhere we've yet to know (might have to find level sync fate to below 40 to test )

Lastly, regarding 7% healing increase. I don't understand from which base are you calculate % increase from. Since from theroy craft testing result, there's nothing about this. And, the calculator result is wrong if you actually have a whm test this by themselves.

Update testing result: Increase test sample to 100

Condition 1:
Healing Magic Potency (MND): 369
Determination: 226
Cure Stats:
- Max: 729
- Min: 687
- Avg: 706.38

Condition 2:
Healing Magic Potency (MND): 330
Determination: 226
Cure Stats:
- Max: 661
- Min: 622
- Avg: 641.68

Condition 3:
Healing Magic Potency (MND): 292
Determination: 226
Cure Stats:
- Max: 598
- Min: 563
- Avg: 580.32

Difference 1 vs 2
Healing Magic Potency (MND): 39
Determination: 0
Cure Stats:
- Max: 68
- Min: 65
- Avg: 64.7
- Avg/MND: 1.66

Difference 2 vs 3
Healing Magic Potency (MND): 38
Determination: 0
Cure Stats:
- Max: 63
- Min: 59
- Avg: 61.36
- Avg/MND: 1.61

Difference 1 vs 3
Healing Magic Potency (MND): 77
Determination: 0
Cure Stats:
- Max: 131
- Min: 124
- Avg: 126.38
- Avg/MND: 1.64

Overall AVG/MND (rough calculate from actual data): 1.64

My Raw Data is here

I stacked all in mind. Food will raise your vit and piety so I felt stronger healing was more important.