When is it a good time to leave?

So I have recent come across a couple of dungeons where I was torn between leaving and staying.

My question is, when is it the right time?

For an example,

I ran Sunken Temple three times in row and only the third time did I get into a group who worked together enough to get past the first boss. The first time, our healer was just not very good. They usually died from AOE splash damage on the first hit and would leave me to use my pathetically under powered cure on myself along with busting all my cooldowns on trash mobs.

While in a group I don't like leaving once I am there. I try to help people out as much as possible but I am only a tank. I am meant to focus the NPC's away from you. I can't play your class for you as well. But I will walk you through anything you might have issues on. I try to be a nice guy and not get bent out of shape. I really do. But when does being a nice guy end and just cutting my losses begins?

Another example,
My second group had that one player any Group finder group dreads. The player who is loud and obnoxious. My second time, we had a player who kept criticizing everyone but himself. If we wiped more than once on a boss, he would freak out. Not everyone is familiar with a boss and trial and error come into play. You can only explain a fight to me so much before I need to do it to find out what you mean. They also chewed me out for taking to long because I was marking my targets.

So when do I cut my losses and find a party with a less aggressive player? I don't want to abandon the other players who are with me. But I have a zero tolerance for jerks. I try to have a thick skin and just let them rant. But if they push to hard, I will just leave. I am playing this game for MY enjoyment. I try to tank as best I can so everyone can share in enjoying this game. But its my free time to. I am not wasting it on jerks.

So what would you do?

I usually leave when they rush into the dungeon, a fight, or anything like that. That's usually early signs of "going to die" syndrome. But if they're seriously acting like idiots and just running around, then say something. Give them advice. They may not know what to do or how to do it. Advice is always the first step. If they ignore that and still continue, then leave.

A Free Company is probably a great asset to you. Even if I don't get a full party I usually at least get one person I know to join. It reduces the chances of you getting some random individual who doesn't know how to play co-op games and on top of that, it builds a certain odd friendship within your FC.

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Originally Posted by Sobia

A Free Company is probably a great asset to you. Even if I don't get a full party I usually at least get one person I know to join. It reduces the chances of you getting some random individual who doesn't know how to play co-op games and on top of that, it builds a certain odd friendship within your FC.

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I am actually a General of my FC of roughly 30 active members. (Around 100 total) and I am in an awkward level range. We only have two other members around my level and they are Europe players, so I usually only catch them.as they are going to bed. Otherwise I would love to. Sadly, I usually quest and dungeon crawl solo.

Try recruiting more members that are around your level, and on at the same times as you. Or put one of your other higher-ups in charge of recruiting, although that would defeat the "same times as you" portion.

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Originally Posted by Sobia

Try recruiting more members that are around your level, and on at the same times as you. Or put one of your other higher-ups in charge of recruiting, although that would defeat the "same times as you" portion.

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I know it sounds like I am making excuses but its not my intention. (Though is it ever?) But for me, I play on PS3 so recruiting is a little more difficult. Typing is slow and arduous, the interface takes more finesse. Currently the work load is split between my fellow General handling recruiting, while I handle website and Admin functions, as well as the eventual planning of events (FC raids, FC leveling days for players stuck on quests and so on)

But I will try and take your advice to heart. It just might take some.time to figure it out.

I also play on PS3. I hooked up my USB keyboard to the system. Works beautifully. I would recommend you do that. It magnificent for chat.

Your keyboard may have a PS/2 connector (it's purple I think... kinda circular, old-school connection). If that's the case, you'll need to purchase a keyboard... and that may sound upsetting but they really aren't that expensive. Still, I feel your pain with the interface. Shortcuts on the PS3 have saved me lots of time. The ones that help are:

L1 + Select = Remove HUD info/Put it back (Good for screen shots)
L1 + Start = Screenshot
L1 + R3 (I believe) = Mouse mode. <- That will make it like you're on the computer.

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Originally Posted by Sobia

I also play on PS3. I hooked up my USB keyboard to the system. Works beautifully. I would recommend you do that. It magnificent for chat.

Your keyboard may have a PS/2 connector (it's purple I think... kinda circular, old-school connection). If that's the case, you'll need to purchase a keyboard... and that may sound upsetting but they really aren't that expensive. Still, I feel your pain with the interface. Shortcuts on the PS3 have saved me lots of time.

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I tried the keyboard actually. Unfortunately it is not long enough to reach my couch. I can only get it half way there. (And no I can't move my couch or I would have) So I had to keep jumping back and forth to get to my keyboard. My only other option is to get a wireless keyboard. Which is out of my price range currently.

But to steer the topic back on track, taking FC out of the equation. What is everyone's thoughts on the matter.

The rule of the thumb is - if you feel uncomfortable and annoyed too much to enjoy the game or even to be able to concentrate on performing the tasks of your class - leave. I always try to communicate fist, both to ask for help or advice if I'm unsure of the strategy or it's a new dungeon for me as well as offer help and advice to others but once I see an arrogant approach from someone and obvious uncooperativnes I consider leaving. I've actually so far only left ones as the group (at mid-range dungeon) was absolutelly incoherent, not waiting for buffs after wiping on the first boss anr in general running around as headless chickens with zero communication. Couple more other times I've left after some other players rage-quit midway through the dungeon and there was obviously no chance of continuing anymore due to the time running out etc.

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Originally Posted by Jaminos

I tried the keyboard actually. Unfortunately it is not long enough to reach my couch. I can only get it half way there. (And no I can't move my couch or I would have) So I had to keep jumping back and forth to get to my keyboard. My only other option is to get a wireless keyboard. Which is out of my price range currently.

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Get the USB extension cable (3 - 5 m / 10 - 15 ft) - those cost cost peanuts in decent shops (both in store as well as online).

I stick it out with a group unless someone is actually being mean, even if I know I'm not going to be able to beat a dungeon because the group is mismatched, or uncoordinated, or simply out of time.

I'm a healer, and while I don't like doing the face plant when I throw the first cure on a tank that doesn't know what they're doing, it's how some people learn they can't succeed without me, and so have to do their bit to make things work.

Holding someone's hand in a dungeon is a pain in the butt, but if they're not jerks, then chances are they come out of the experience having learned something, and by that token you will have enriched the experience that player and of every other player who gets paired with them in the future. Forging better players out of bad players is an investment in the future of Eorzea. The best treatment for ignorance has always been education. I don't blame players who bail on a group out of frustration (it is a game and is supposed to be fun), but if one has the patience or temperament I'd ask that one to consider doing the best they can to improve the players they're paired with.

Well another example, my first time doing Titan, my group literally failed twenty times before we beat him. I should have left after the fifth, I had Tue boss down cold. Tanking him is actually fairly easy during the "easy mode version" or, not the level 50 "Hard Mode"

The DPS kept getting hit by his knock back cone and either dying from the hit or dying from the fall. But they were a group of real life friends and were super friendly. So I stuck it out until we managed to get him down. The DPS still died during phase 2, but between myself and the other DPS, we took him down.



I love tanking. Its a lot of fun. To feel important during a fight. While I never consider myself better than any of my other party members, I enjoy facing the boss in what looks to be alone (even though my party is blasting a hole in his back)

But more than that, I like helping people out. These players were worth staying for. Because I can almost guarantee you that most tanks would have dropped them a lot sooner. Instead, they finished their quests and so did I. And I felt like we both came out stronger from it.

As the healer, I'll only leave if the dungeon has only been going for a short time, or we've wiped several times and I see the completion as a hopeless task. If I'm being attacked every time I throw out a heal and it's obvious the tank isn't doing his job I'm gone.

For me personally, the moment you stop having fun. That is the sign to leave. You play this game to have fun, and the moment that stops, your whole reason for being there evaporates. This may take only one wipe, or several. It is really up to you.

I have left groups with only one wipe - because being the healer you have the unique perspective of knowing if a run is going really well or really badly. If it was a mistake or an accident ''oh crap pulled too many'' then that is fine, we all make mistakes. But if its ''wth is a healer? and why do we need one?'' yeah im out.

I quote Valarian in everything he said. The only time I left a dungeon was when the healer started acting like a jerk and repeatedly insulted the tank - who was a friend of mine, but then again I would have done that even if I didn't know him. I have had some wonderful experiences even after being repeatedly wiped, an example would be almost a week ago during the Navel boss fight. It was hell, but we just repeatedly learned from trial and error without giving up. It felt good. Yesterday's Castrum Meridianum was horrible, because at half of it there was a mass abandon that tore the group - all because the healer wanted to rush, while some of us didn't even do it the first time. Damn, I didn't even understand WHAT I'm supposed to do because of that guy, at the end of the run! Of course, he was in the group that left. My rule of the thumb is: don't leave unless you want to strangle someone that wants to strangle you. If it's not reciprocate, we may still do it.
...I guess.

Having played MMOs for 13 years, my patience for idiot players is exhausted. I can usually tell right away if a PUG player will be a problem based on their attitude. If they rush, blame others, don't do their jobs and won't listen I don't need more than a couple of encounters to know its a lost cause. If they are inquisitive however, ask for advice or are open to suggestion, I will stick around and help...mostly because if I'm ever in a new dungeon I hope someone with more experience there will do the same for me. :)

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Originally Posted by Kincade

Having played MMOs for 13 years, my patience for idiot players is exhausted. I can usually tell right away if a PUG player will be a problem based on their attitude. If they rush, blame others, don't do their jobs and won't listen I don't need more than a couple of encounters to know its a lost cause. If they are inquisitive however, ask for advice or are open to suggestion, I will stick around and help...mostly because if I'm ever in a new dungeon I hope someone with more experience there will do the same for me. :)

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I have been playing MMO's for over a decade myself, I still try to show patience. But we all have our reasons for doing what we do I guess.

Attitude is what drives me to leave or not. I won't leave a DPS that has been in queue for 40 min, just because they've never run the dungeon and they die a lot. I won't leave a group because they're under geared and we stand no chance of completing either. (Though when SE implements gear checks, I won't have to worry about this as much.)

If I have a group with an a-hole, I weigh whether its worth my time to stay vs the 15 min quit penalty, and I tell them to weigh whether its worth their time to keep being an a-hole vs waiting on a replacement for me.

I have been playing MMO's for a very long time and I am usually a patient person. But I only left one PUG group so far and that is when the Tank didn't taunt off of the DPS and didn't talk in party chat even after giving him some hints on please taunt all of the mobs, not just one. The healer was also new to healing so the combined made the group doomed from the start. I gave the healer some suggestions though and I think she was getting the hang of healing. But we still wiped multiple times due to the tank not listening. Since it was getting late, I told the group I had work the next day and went to bed lol. The very next day, did the same dungeon, had the same healer, and we got through it with no problem. How one person can make or break a group sometimes. Blah.

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Originally Posted by Jaminos

So I have recent come across a couple of dungeons where I was torn between leaving and staying.

My question is, when is it the right time?

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If they have bad attitudes, I'll leave. I don't game with negative people.
If they start swearing, I'll leave. I don't game with negative people.
If they start tossing out bigotry, I'll leave. I don't game with negative people.
If they start ERPing, I'll leave. Its happened (in other MMOs, namely WoW)... and I don't find this the place for it.
If they're forcing a speed run, I'll leave. I don't do speed runs.
If the whole group by consensus decides to call it, I'll leave with them.

Otherwise I'm generally good to keep trying, and if the group breaks up for reasons other than above, I'm rarely the first one out the door, but leave after it looks like we've no hope of finding a replacement for whoever was.

Took me a second to figure out what ERP meant...ewww. I did quit a group in SWTOR because of that.

I find the best time to leave is the moment you start to get frustrated or start having a miserable time within the group. This time period can vary depending on the individual playing but for me, If I am constantly asking people to do something in order to get through the dungeon successfully and disregard everything I am saying my fuse is rather limited. However, that being said, I find myself sticking with the group for the most part giving the users the benefit of the doubt that they are new to the game and have yet understand what it means to be a tank or a dps or a healer. As for my history with leaving within this game, I have only left 1 instance due to the fact that nobody was listening there was no coordination and it was a crap shoot of a dungeon. I had to leave simply because I felt frustrated for having to take longer than it should have taken so I decided to leave after being in the instance for over an hour, and not even close to being near the final boss.

I'm also a tank :) for me the worst thing that may happen is a party where players do not answer in chat >.<

I start every dungeon greetings all and then ask them if they know bosses tactics or if they needan explanations... I feel so demotivated when no one answer me!

The worst thing is just happened: no one answered me and then a DPSer started telling me that time was going and we should start to go, of course whitout greeting anyone or answering my question... Sigh! That's the only thing that really make me want to instant leave, as I did :(

You are doing the right thing, in my opinion. Giving PUGs pre-fight advice is the way to start things off on the right foot. Leaving when one of the party starts acting juvenile and abusive is just fine.

As you say, we play this GAME to have fun. When self-appointed "elitists" start taking the fun away, it's time to quit the party.

The right time to leave is when these two conditions are met:
1. you are starting to feel frustrated beyond a level of wanting to overcome a challenge
2. You have informed your party that you'll leave if the problems persist through the next one or two fights.

Don't just silently eff off in the middle of a run, that's rude to the innocent party members. Unless all three/seven of your party members are assholes, of course, in which case, make like a tree.

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Originally Posted by Sandman85

I start every dungeon greetings all and then ask them if they know bosses tactics or if they needan explanations... I feel so demotivated when no one answer me!

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Quite often people, especially people coming from vote-kick games, are afraid that if they answer yes, they will be booted out of the PuG (or the tank or healer will just leave).

This fear is frankly VERY justified. I'd wager about a fourth of all DPS that answer yes - as a tank I've seen a vote-kick window pop up with that person's name in it. And as a tank or healer in those other games - if I answer yes... my odds are about 1 in 10 to find myself standing in Orgrimmar a few seconds later...

Its gotten to the point where in some raid PUGs a complex 'handshake of whispers' occurs between the tanks to try and feel out the other person to avoid being kicked, and to keep the DPS from kicking the other one if that person seems like someone you could work with - experienced or not (half my PUG rads/LFRs have involved these chains of whispers were the other tank either offers to shield me from vote-happy DPS by advising me, or asks me to help them through it).

Vote-kick basically chills conversation. Everyone lives in fear of being stuck in queue again.

As a tank, its not so bad - my queue might be instant for anything other than raids (WoW LFR tank queues are actually longer than DPS LFR queues, because you need 2 for every 17 DPS)... but I still don't like being bounced around.

And if I play one of me few DPS toons, I never say yes, nor even no, to that question...

I hate that, but its a cold reality of the situation.

Its repeated in Guild Wars 2 also, use gw2lfg, get into a PUG, and say you're new - and you're standing outside again. I keep my 'Dungeon Master' title on at all times now (the title that says I've done every dungeon in every mode/path) as a bit of insurance against this...

Its why I'm for account-wide blacklisting so you never have to PUG with someone again, but against vote-kicking. Discourage too easy of tossing, while also giving jerks a high 'opportunity cost' as their pool of PUG-mates shrinks.

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Ultimately it's your time you're spending. If you can deal with the 15 minute DF lockout time + however much time you're going to spend requeuing only to maybe get stuck with a group that's just as bad or worse, best to just get out when things look hopeless.

Cost benefit analysis.

What is the benefit of you staying and investing your time vs. leaving waiting 15 minutes and re-queue with a different set of individuals?

Each situation will be different; however, you pay the bill (monthly subscription) so you do with your time what you want.

I am trying to develop a small and well organized free company to combat the DF randoms. Less stress = better play experience.

Good luck to ya OP and thank you for your consideration.